Help/Advice Needed

[muff licker]

I have finally used my brain and come up with an idea that i want to possibly put forward to Dragons Den, what i need to know or want advice on is how i would go about collating the information to do my presentation.

I have checked numerous things and as far as i can see the 'idea' i have thought of doesn't seem to be on the market.

I appreciate this is a weird request but im sure they are some intellectual people who can help me or may have some past experience of this sort of thing.

Cheers


Simon

[Nudga]

Is it a kind of face condom where by you don't get fanny rash on yer clock after a bit of cunny lingo?

[donnyjay]

Nudga wrote:

Is it a kind of face condom where by you don't get fanny rash on yer clock after a bit of cunny lingo?

I'm in.

[CusworthRovers]

I like Nudga's idea to be honest. Is that show on before or after the watershed?


Are you talking about presentation like PowerPoint, graphs, pie charts or other things. I think we need more info, although one feels you are reluctant to tell us incase some rascard on here pilfers your idea. I have to say Nudga's idea fits with your name though. Is that the cunni ng plan?

[muff licker]

CusworthRovers wrote:

I like Nudga's idea to be honest. Is that show on before or after the watershed?


Are you talking about presentation like PowerPoint, graphs, pie charts or other things. I think we need more info, although one feels you are reluctant to tell us incase some rascard on here pilfers your idea. I have to say Nudga's idea fits with your name though. Is that the cunni ng plan?

Nudgas idea is i admit a lot more interesting than my own, BUT i don't think its something that would appeal to the Dragons.

Yes Cussy, along those lines ,mainly getting stats and how to approach companies with the said idea to try and gain interest. Also where to go to get a 'prototype' that can be shown to potential companies etc??
As i say any help would be greatly recieved and you never know if the idea did take off, then im sure a nice gesture would head the way of any helpees    

[Muttley]

Don't want to be too blunt, but if you're having to ask for that sort of help on a football forum at such an early stage of the product development then I don't hold out much hope for your business acumen.

However...

Be realistic, most of the good ideas have already been thought of. If your idea is not already on the market there's probably a good reason - that someone with more knowledge and experience has already thought of it and discarded the idea (although that's not to say that you can't bring something fresh to the idea).

Speak to a lawyer experienced in IP and get advice on how to protect your idea. Also have a look at http://www.ipo.gov.uk/

For statistics, why not try the National Statistics website for a start? Plenty of data on population, households etc split by age, gender, region. From that you could work out the size of your potential market - you then need to factor in how many people would buy it.

Are you sure there's nothing similar on the market? Google is probably your best friend here - bung in as many combinations of key words and see what it spews out.

If there is an associated product already on the market, find out who manufactures it and approach them with your idea.

Speak to some trusted friends and family and explain your idea and ask if they think its a good idea, and encourage them to be honest with you. If they say they would buy it, ask what they would be prepared to pay.

Find someone who can do detailed drawings of your idea (assuming it's a \"widget\", rather than a website) - cheaper in the first instance than getting a prototype made - you could probably get a good estimate of production costs from the drawings. Obviously getting a prototype made depends on what it's made out of - wouln't expect it to be cheap esp if its plastic as the moulds are costly, hence the suggestion above.

[Snods Shinpad 2]

muff licker wrote:
[quote Also where to go to get a 'prototype' that can be shown to potential companies etc??
quote]

I can chip in a bit of limited knowledge on this.

Basically you need to get a industrial designer to look at your idea and come up with a design for the product. Depending on what it is obviously, there are a hundred different ways they do this.

If the product is a form made out of plastics for example, they would knock together a design in a 3d programme. There are some machines that can then sculpt a model straight from these designs. Obviously if the form is supposed to contain electronics or some such, you would need to consult a specialist in that area to consult with the designer.

If the product is made of other materials it would be the designers job to sketch out a design for your approval and then make a prototype from that. Initially, depending on what the product is, this would be a non-working prototype to give you an idea of how it will look.

When you are happy with the design, then you have to go and find a manufacturer to produce it.

If you are tight on funds, I would suggest getting in touch with a college/university who teach industrial design and maybe approach them with a plan for one of the students to do the design as part of their MA, as MA students usually have a big project to work on for part of their course. If the product is to be manufactured, I would imagine there would be interest in designing it, as it would look good on their CV to have designed a product that is in the marketplace.

I'm writing this in a bit of a rush, so I hope it all makes sense.

This link may help too...

Link

[Keith Myath]

To be fair if your thinking about a business proposal then you would be better off going to a bank and not on Dragons Den.

A Bank, will usually be able to provide you with enough information on how and what to do before you even get to the stage of implememting your idea.

In fact theres loads of free business advice that wont cost you a penney, and will give you an answer as to wether your idea is a worth while venture before you have decided to remortgage your house.

Dragons Den is a program, purely entertainment that makes money for the Dragons more than it does the people who put teh hard work in.

The only businesses that flourish on there are the ones who are using it to advertise and thus usually end up turning down the Dragons advances and go it alone (usually with the support of a bank).

I mean if you wanted to be a top exec for a global company you dont do it by going on the apprentice now do you, you do it by hard work and graft and going the extra mile.

Im in the process of patenting my idea, its a ball ache and its enough to put you off on its own, but ist the only way to to stop anyone copying before you get to the point of looking for investment or even better a Bank loan.

[Keith Myath]

Snods Shinpad 2 wrote:

muff licker wrote:
[quote Also where to go to get a 'prototype' that can be shown to potential companies etc??
quote]

I can chip in a bit of limited knowledge on this.

Basically you need to get a industrial designer to look at your idea and come up with a design for the product. Depending on what it is obviously, there are a hundred different ways they do this.

If the product is a form made out of plastics for example, they would knock together a design in a 3d programme. There are some machines that can then sculpt a model straight from these designs. Obviously if the form is supposed to contain electronics or some such, you would need to consult a specialist in that area to consult with the designer.

If the product is made of other materials it would be the designers job to sketch out a design for your approval and then make a prototype from that. Initially, depending on what the product is, this would be a non-working prototype to give you an idea of how it will look.

When you are happy with the design, then you have to go and find a manufacturer to produce it.

If you are tight on funds, I would suggest getting in touch with a college/university who teach industrial design and maybe approach them with a plan for one of the students to do the design as part of their MA, as MA students usually have a big project to work on for part of their course. If the product is to be manufactured, I would imagine there would be interest in designing it, as it would look good on their CV to have designed a product that is in the marketplace.

I'm writing this in a bit of a rush, so I hope it all makes sense.

This link may help too...

Link

My own business provides these services, im pretty swamped at the moment but dont mind giving pointers if required.

[muff licker]

Cheers for the input, much appreicated.

I have spoke to many friends and they say its a great idea, although the devise is solely used for a certain business theres a possiblity it could get expanded to other ventures.

I didn't have a clue how to go about it, but with all the information given i have a better view of what needs to be actioned. It may get laughed at but i wont know if i dont try.

I have looked at Google and i cant see anything that is the same nor is like what i have in mind, so if the gods are looking down on me.....who knows!!!

[Keith Myath]

muff licker wrote:

I have looked at Google and i cant see anything that is the same nor is like what i have in mind

I see your problem.......Turn the parental settings on google to Adult and you will probably find someone has already come up with a Rubber double ended vibrating fist  

[Nudga]

Keith Myath wrote:

muff licker wrote:

I have looked at Google and i cant see anything that is the same nor is like what i have in mind

I see your problem.......Turn the parental settings on google to Adult and you will probably find someone has already come up with a Rubber double ended vibrating fist  

Yes, that was my idea 3 years ago. I've got one coming out with a gold size eleven vibrating foot. Might call it 'Foot n south mouth'

[BobG]

The absolute priority Muff is to do soemhting to protect your idea. There's some right unscrupulous buggers out there. There's a bloke in this vilage, an engineer, who came up with a cracking idea for making supermarket trolley wheels go the way the driver actually wanted them to go. He got the copyright/PI protection stuff satarted anf then approached some venture capilaist investors for some funding. They gave hima  bit - not much - and then took his idea to some other bugger who changed a bit here and there and then proceeded to copyright that. As they had the funding and this bolke here didn't, they got to market aeons before he ever had evena  chance. So he got bugger all basically. So, go talk to an intellectual property lawyer. It's expensive. And it's incredibly long winded and time consuming. But it's absolutely bloody vital. I wouldn't even talk to a Bank or any one else until you've got the protection all sewn up.

Cheers

BobG

[BillyStubbsTears]

Tough one Muff.

My (small) company produced a quite superb product 6 years ago. It was cheaper, lighter and more effective than the market leading product. Beat it hands down in tests that we did time after time.

We applied for a patent in 2006 and we're still paying patent attourney's fees as the process drags on. We've paid about £30k so far in fees with a very big decision to make in the next few months on whether we go for the next tranche of fees.

We were lucky in that we had very good relations with the company who produced the market leading product. So we partnered with them. We make the product, they now market and sell it. They pay us £52 for each item that we sell to them and they sell them for about £75. Overall, we're about £100k up over 6 years (although this doesn't include the personal time that went into developing the product in the first place). We hope that the big costs are now over and it'll be income all the way from now.

We were lucky that our company was strong enough to pay for the development without having to get VC funding. It just meant that we drastically ate into our profits for a few years. And we were lucky in partnering with a bigger, established company. It meant that we weren't having to go eyeball to eyeball with the market leader. If you can possibly do that, I'd definitely recommend it - you'll not make as much money, but there's more chance of making a decent amount.

If you DO decide to got that route, amke damn sure that you get them to sign a Non-Disclosure Agreement before you tell them anything (pay a suitable solicitor to draw one up). You could approach them with a letter saying that you have what you think is a world-beater that is better than their products, that you want to partner rather than take them on, but that you would need them to sign an NDA before you will tell them what it is. If you don't know themn, they'll try to bullshit you with all the reasons why it isn't new, won't work, will cost too much etc. But if they've signed an NDA that is correctly drafter, they cannot then take the idea themselves without breaking the law. So you can always walk away and take another route.

VCs are a minefield. If you just have a good idea but no business, they will eat you alive. They'll want 95% of whatever business you set up and you'll see a fraction of the profits. The only way you can take them on is to have shown that you already have a viable business, be selling the products yourself already and simply need more money to expand and dominate the market. THEN they will be prepared to stump up money to help you without taking the lion's share, becuase they are pretty sure that it's a safe bet.

You need to have a clear idea how much it will cost to develop your product to the point where it can be marketed. If you possibly can, finance the development, the IP protection (even just the initial patent application costs) and the intial sales yourself. If it's as good as you say, you'll make some sales and cover some of your costs. THEN you'll be in a position of strength to go to other companies or financiers for help in expanding.

Good luck.

[BLIR]

I went on Dragon's Den:

Me - \"I've come up with an invention that will force homosexuals to automatically identify themselves whenever they pass within 20 feet of it. Let me just turn it on.....\"

Deborah Meaden - \"I'm out\"




I'll get me coat