Words from Saunders

[ditch_drfc]

Article in the DFP on Saunders

http://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/rovers_news_saunders_searching_for_right_formula_1_4002954

[jonnydog]

Agree with most of the things he's said. He was never gonna come straight in and get us headed off on a 14 game unbeaten run!!

Only questionable in that is when he said you need 36 points from wins from start to finish of the season, in order to stop up (add a few draws too). To me I would personally have thought 42 to be safe and THEN a few draws to get a team towards the 50 point mark, which still might not be enough.

... Then again, He's in the football business, I am not therefore am probably wrong.

Here's for 3 of them 36 after tomorrows game

[ditch_drfc]

haha yeah, i thought it was around the 42 mark too, wierd...

[Wild Rover]

I guess he was speaking about from here on in, not throughout the season, as 40 points cant be enough.

[dickos1]

36 points from wins and the rest of the points made up of draws, but i agree we would need more than 36 points from wins, we wont draw 14,15 games this season.

[DearneValleyRover]

Always thought it was 15 wins to aim for.

[markusparkus75]

Took Saunders a while to get things together at Wrexham.  His first season he went through over 50 players before hitting on the right formula. But his second season, when Wrexham did quite well, he played most the season with the same 20 odd players without any injuries.

I get the impression he's a bit more like SOD than he's given credit for - he perhaps has an idea of the team he wants but is going to have to try a few things to get there (again like SOD).

The problem is, I'm not sure time is on our side.

I'll be happy if we finish one point above the bottom three to be honest, though I say that every season. But I think it's going to be two tough years of restructuring whilst desperately trying to hold onto Championship status.  

If we come out of this season and next still in the Championship, but with a reserve team and a youth and scouting system set up under Saunders, I'll be happy.

Reading between the lines of what Saunders and Ryan have said, that seems to be the plan - and the McKay deal is only for this season and next season.

But it's going to be pretty desperate and skin-of-our-teeth stuff for the next 18 months.

[vaya]

In what will undoubtedly be a vain attempt to bring round a discussion about football, off the top of my head I reckon we need to be looking at:

Watford (H) win.
Millwall (A) win.
Burnley (A) draw.
Watford (A) win.
Barnsley (H) win.
Cardiff (H) draw.
Bristol City (A) win.
Blackpool (H) draw.
Leeds (A) draw
Peterborough (H) win
Forest (A) draw
Derby (H) draw
Millwall (H) win
Burnley (H) win
Portsmouth (H) draw
Coventry (H) win.

[dickos1]

we need a bit more than that i think, 46 points will send us down

[silent majority]

Don't forget to allow for the clubs that will be going into administration this season, so their points deduction will need to be considered.

For the record, those in deep do dah are Portsmouth (again), Watford and Coventry.

[Wild Rover]

39 points from this point onward is the aim i am sure. so win a third of the games and throw in a third or so  draws, Loose a third and that should do it. Mind you with the calibre of players due in January ( subject to information being correct), half should be won and half drawn at worst.

[markusparkus75]

I think 36 points and a few points from draws keeping us up is optimistic. That said, it's an odd league, and the last two seasons haven't required much above 40 to stay up.  Last season was particularly low. We ended six points clear at the end, which with hindsight seems a decent margin but certainly didn't feel it at the time.

As mentioned, quite a few clubs have financial problems, and even Barnsley aren't out of the woods yet on that side of things.

It's not impossible, but it's going to be squeaky bum time!  

My worry is that once you start circling the plug hole of relegation for a couple of seasons, gravity eventually catches up with you.

[silent majority]

As mentioned, quite a few clubs have financial problems, and even Barnsley aren't out of the woods yet on that side of things.

It's not impossible, but it's going to be squeaky bum time!  

Barnsley's situation is not a straight forward administration thing though, its got more to do with Mr Cryne and what happens. I do understand though that changes have been made to offset anything that may come to pass.

[markusparkus75]

Fair enough, I don't actually want to see Barnsley go into admin.

Amusing though it may be briefly.

[madmick50]

The following article certainly makes an interesting read but I reckon a 5 year old could have done a better job in asking questions to some of his answers. So I've asked my 5 year old nephew to pretend he was a reporter and submit some questions for Saunders. This is what he came up with:

ROVERS boss Dean Saunders has admitted he is still searching for the right formula to make his side successful. How long do you think this will take?

Saunders insists he will get the team winning regularly but says it will take time as he looks for the right side to field. How long do you think this will take?

He said: “At the minute, I’m searching for the right formula and the right team to send out on the pitch. How long do you think this will take?

“We will get the team winning, it’s just a case of gelling everything together. How long do you think this will take?

“It takes a bit of time for things to run smooth. How much time?

“I’d like to pick the same team every week eventually but it takes time. How much time?How do you propose to pick the same team every week when all the incoming players are only going to be here for a short time for the next 2 years? Surely you need to find a formula that allows for new players coming and going all the time?

“It’s the ideal because then if you get beat, the same group of players pick themselves up and react to that the following week.” So are you saying that bringing in new players all the time means you are not going to be able to achieve this ideal?

A lengthy injury list – with more names added following the 2-0 defeat at Barnsley – has ensured it has been difficult for Rovers to name a consistent starting XI.

Saunders said: “It’s difficult to gel because we’ve got that many injuries. Is that the only factor in making it difficult to gel or could having new players coming and going all the time add to this problem?

“I’ve never known anything like it, with the number of long term injuries, so it means if you pick up a few knocks you’re suddenly thin on the ground. Surely injuries shouldn't be a problem because you're bringing in new players all the time that are going to replace 90% of the existing squad anyway?

“It means there’s no consistency. In what you say or in what you do?

“We’ve had two new players in over the last few days and we’re out there training, going over team shape and tactics and they’re getting it wrong because they are new. Are you surprised by this?

“They do things different at other clubs so we’re having to go over them. Did you not expect this to be the case?

“It takes time before everything goes like clockwork, the organisational side of things with players being in the right place and playing together.” How much time?

Saunders points to Manchester City as an example where time was needed for success to come.

He said: “If you look at City now, they’re flying.

“But it’s taken two and a half years to get to where they are now. Are we finally starting to get an answer as to how long you think it will take?

“Mark Hughes spent an absolute fortune and it didn’t work out. Does this not suggest that just because you've got good players it doesn't automatically mean you will have a good team?

“When there’s a problem, it doesn’t sort itself out overnight.How long does it take? How much time have you been given?

“We’ve won six games in 2011 so it tells you there’s something wrong.” What in your opinion is wrong?

The Rovers boss has targeted a total of 12 wins for the campaign which he believes, along with a few draws, will be enough to keep his side up.

And he is looking to add two more wins to the three picked up so far in the next two games with Watford and Millwall.

He said: “We’ve got to win 12 games from start to finish to stay in the league.

“That gets you 36 points and if you pick up a few draws that’ll be enough and we’ll stay in the league. Are you sure you've done your maths correctly?

“We’re not a million miles away and it was important we didn’t lose against Coventry, it’s proven that with how things have gone since. Would it not have been better to lose that game and beaten Barnsley?

“We could be in a good position on Tuesday night if the players go into Saturday with the belief and we win and then try to beat Millwall. Given the lack of belief against Barnsley what's going to be different on Saturday?

“If we beat Watford and Millwall then we’ll be right up there with them.” Let's hope we do. Thank you Mr Saunders for talking a lot but not really saying anything.

[sedwardsdrfc]

here we go again

[dickos1]

Mick we have 6 new outfield players in our squad, 3 haven't even kicked a ball yet. So when u ask about how much time he needs, I think he needs more than no games whatsoever! Out of interest do you feel ten games is long enough for a new manager before he can be accurately judged. He has got points in 5 of those games by the way!

[Akinfenwa]

How long will it take? What do you expect him to say, \"It'll take precisely 85 days, 9 hours, 12 minutes and 47 seconds for me te get the right formula\"? I know some people on here think that they should get to know about everything at DRFC but come on. You could quite easily take an interview from any football manager in the country and pick it apart in the same manner if you wanted to.

[Alonzo Drake]

Ayup Mick me old duck -- tha needs to calm down a bit sugar. Methinks you're becoming a bit obsessive. Give Saunders time. He's disassembling an old team, and rebuilding. Take a chill pill and look forward to what's ahead:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfNxm8ugB4E

[madmick50]

Out of interest do you feel ten games is long enough for a new manager before he can be accurately judged.

Normally I'd give a new manager much more time than 10 games. If I'm honest looking back on my posts I have been a bit harsh on Saunders. I just don't think Saunders or any manager can make the current strategy work.

He does deserve some criticism though, because he is going along with it. In the interview he says he wants to pick the same team every week for obvious reasons. What I can't get my head around is why he would say that knowing full well that for the next 2 years at least he is not going to be able to do that.

[madmick50]

He's disassembling an old team, and rebuilding. Take a chill pill and look forward to what's ahead:

He's destroying the club and looking forward to what's ahead is what worries me.

[donnyroversfc]

He's disassembling an old team, and rebuilding. Take a chill pill and look forward to what's ahead:

He's destroying the club and looking forward to what's ahead is what worries me.

Disassembling an old team and replacing them with old foreign mercenaries given to him by Willie Mckay. The end of season awards should be fun!

The club are meant to be attracting neww fans, not driving them and existing fans away!

Puppet Saunders and his master Mckay out!!

[dickos1]

Another absolutely ridiculous post, puppet!!
Not a puppet in my eyes! He's being offered players and then deciding whether he wants them or not, like most managers.
He's just being offered better quality players than usual.

[sedwardsdrfc]

i wish the hadent been honest about what is going on because some people are taking the piss if the club kept quiet we would think signing these great players even on short term deals is great. we dont know how lucky we are to have such a honest club

[benaldo]

i wish the hadent been honest about what is going on because some people are taking the piss if the club kept quiet we would think signing these great players even on short term deals is great. we dont know how lucky we are to have such a honest club

Yep.

A good few people are loving every loss at the moment. God knows why?! I hated losing under SOD and I hate losing under Saunders, the only difference is that I can see a light at the end of the tunnel with Saunders, with SOD it was a dreary, tea stained, future. And I still maintain that SOD was a very arrogant manager. Didn't he turn down Charlie Adams for £150,000? and I've heard that allegedly that was the tip of the iceberg.

The future is bright. I just cannot see what there is to moan about, other than the odd, well known and well moaned about, players.

[albie]

On the points target, Leicester got relegated on 52 points in 2007/8;
http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/league-championship/2007-2008/table

but usually safety is achieved with a lower total. Less than last seasons 48 points would be risky IMO.

Key point is that we must start winning games now, because more points needed from fewer games is a big ask. If we drop any further off the pace we will need play-off form in the second half of the season, and that looks unlikely in truth.

Watford and Millwall are big games, because they are likely to be in the frame for the drop as well.

[bedale rover]

along with lots of DRFC i am uneasy with the current strategy

but my concern relates to heroes

most teams are relatively stable with a turnover of players but with a core of players who stay with the club for several seasons

usually these players stay as they are playing well individually and collectively and are being sufficiently remunerated

what this does is allow the fans to identify with the players and eventually they become cult heroes/fans favourites

so now we have a situation where the core group of players is being squeezed out by short term deals and loan signings  so where does this leave the club vis-a-vis heroes and who will people choose to have on the back of their replica shirts diouf? gone a flash of a fat contract chimbonda off to USA

you could always attach the names with velcro

but seriously it seems to undermine the clubs relationship with the fans which as we know is already fragile the gamble is that the new policy will bring success and with it that success will bring back the recalcitrant ones

as a lifelong fan i want this club to succeed but have they sawn through one of the key planks?

we shall see

[BobG]

If you look at points needed to survive as what we will need from now to stay up, I have always assumed 52 is needed to be safe. That could be very wrong of course, but assumning it's about right, it means we need 40 more points from 29 games. Thats 1.4 points a game. To get into the play offs, you generally need somewhere around 1.5 points a game over a season. Ergo, we need to play to almost play off form from now on just to survive.

Don't reckon that's very likely. Do you? I know we did it once before - but can you honestly see lightning striking twice in such a short time?

Cheers

BobG

[Standanista]

I remain the eternal optimist Bob, but ask me again in February.

I am, long term, with Benaldo on this one though.  I do see it working eventually.

[i_ateallthepies]

If you look at points needed to survive as what we will need from now to stay up, I have always assumed 52 is needed to be safe. That could be very wrong of course, but assumning it's about right, it means we need 40 more points from 29 games. Thats 1.4 points a game. To get into the play offs, you generally need somewhere around 1.5 points a game over a season. Ergo, we need to play to almost play off form from now on just to survive.

Don't reckon that's very likely. Do you? I know we did it once before - but can you honestly see lightning striking twice in such a short time?

Cheers

BobG

I for one can't see it Bob, particularly off the strength of the majority of recent performances.
You can expect that some results will go our way in spite of poor performances, but I don't see a repeat of our first Championship season when, let's face it performances right through the season were good, just results that didn't go our way up to Christmas.

This is a very different kettle of fish.  I remain hopeful, though not expectant.