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Author Topic: Crewe  (Read 8058 times)

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dickos1

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Re: Crewe
« Reply #30 on May 29, 2012, 11:32:10 pm by dickos1 »
No but what evidence is there that he wanted to build from within? This season we've given more contracts out and longer contracts than ever before. Certainly over the last ten years

SOD did want some young players coming through and was instrumental in recruiting paul wilson from scunny but you need time to bring through young players and usually they come along in groups as they seem to encourage each other

Wilson was here long before sod.. We all knew one day we would be relegated it was always going to happen. So don't understand the massive OTT reaction to it. We're in league 1 still a good achievement for us, all this nonsense about history repeating itself is rubbish, we will be competitive next year and finish in the top half, which on the grand scale is another very good season.



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dickos1

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Re: Crewe
« Reply #31 on May 29, 2012, 11:44:48 pm by dickos1 »

Deeper shit than EVER??? Really? Were you not around in 97/98????

Sunshine, I was around in 1967/68 never mind 30 years later when you seem to think the world began. I watched 3 decades of mostly pain and torture long before you arrived.

Wake up and smell the coffee. This is what Saunders said when he came in:

'My job is to change the personnel and get people in who can do their jobs properly at this level. There are players at this club who have scars from losing so many games'.

In other words he told the existing players they weren't good enough. He replaced them with what, in his opinion, were (and I quote again), 'a plethora of potential match winners'. They were not. They were shite. Individually talented, but no team ethic and ineptly led hence the catastrophic run of results leading to relegation. The only games we won after Christmas were with the old brigade, the cast offs, who are better than both you and Saunders give credit for.

Alas their value today, after being deemed not good enough to get into the worst team in the league last year, the first to be relegated in the entire country, I'd suggest it's dwindled away to pretty much zero. There's a fire sale on at the Keepmoat right now, everything must go, name your price - and there are still no takers. How can you then expect these players to pledge loyalty Saunders? Or the Board? Or take a massive pay cut?

If we don't reduce the wage bill we will be in contravention of the FFP rules and will not be allowed to sign anyone. It costs money to terminate contracts, money that can only be spent once and might have gone on new blood, but would you trust your cash with a clown who regarded the mercenaries as 'a plethora of matchwinners'? His judgement is fundamentaly flawed. That's the predicament we're in.

I hope you've not thrown away your League Two Satnav yet because I'll gamble you'll need it before you'll need the Championship one again. JR bottled it. He threw the baby out with the bathwater. Jingoism is fine and dandy for selling season tickets but reality is what you may have to face when pre-season training begins in 32 days time.

Do you seriously think we'll be ready with anything like a finalised squad by then? Of course we wont!
[/quote]

You cascade Saunders, but lay no blame with sod, he also had an awful run of results. You say the players are better than we think but then complain that nobody else wants them. The players weren't good enough when Saunders came in, the results over the previous 8 months proved that.
Saunders hasn't bought a player yet, his only options were loan players nobody else wanted, yes he knew that before he joined, but anybody in their right mind wouldn't turn down the opportunity that he was given.
The squad isn't his, the only players hes signed are the youth team players and maybe bêye and Robert if they're here.
Can't understand the mentality of people not giving him an opportunity to build his own squad of players. Then judge him, no manager can be successful trying to manage players he didn't sign and especially when they don't suit his managerial style, happened to sod and then look what happened when jr ignored the fans and stuck by him.
That's the precedent, jr knew what he was doing then ignored impatient and irrational fans and I for one am glad he's ignoring certain fans again.

Al4475

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Re: Crewe
« Reply #32 on May 30, 2012, 12:00:21 am by Al4475 »
Interesting thread this one as a reader.
This season, the experiment, McKay, Skintness, Board Leaving then coming back, Saunders, SOD, Copps, Sharp, Oster, Woods, Martis, Fortune, Diouf, Chimbonda, Dangerous Dave, Gavin Baldwin, Stock etc. etc. etc. has merely compounded what I felt last season.

At the time last season that I'm thinking of, after a great start .... and a second half 'We ran out of Ideas, got Loads of Injuries and Basically Self-Imploded season' said to my cousin at the Preston game 'This is huge - we lose this we could go down and down and down some more and end up back in the conference,' My cousin laughed at me and asked - "Do you really think it's that serious?" "Yep" says I, 'Like it or not we're punching well above our weight - still ... after a few years of Championship Football, if we aren't kept tight we're gonna struggle - our players are far better as a sum than their individual worth!' This hasn't changed, in my opinion the signs were there last season and (again in my opinion) in all fairness, they were there with a slightly better manager who's players believed in what he was saying (if not exactly how they could show this) and who weren't being chucked away as part of an experiment that has ultimately gone tits up!

We are DRFC - we are and always will be shite, we will always eventually spend our days locking horns with the Mansfields, Crewes, Torquays, Carlisles of this world and may occasionally get to play the Leeds, Leicesters, Derbys and Forests (or on the flip side) Telfords, Nuneatons, Northwiches and so on of this world but DRFC are my team and I only hope the next season is better than the last - what more can you do? 

It's crap again at the moment - but whose to say it won't be better again in a year or two?

Donnybob

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Re: Crewe
« Reply #33 on May 30, 2012, 09:05:57 am by Donnybob »
Okay Whisky, help me with my lost sense of perception. List the positives to be drawn from our current predicament. Over budget, in contravention of FFP rules and facing the possibility of sanctions. Pre-season games start in barely 6 weeks time.

This ‘massive OTT reaction’ dickos1 is not because of relegation, it is to the manner of how it was brought about and the inevitable aftermath that surrounds catastrophic managerial and policy decisions. Please do tell me on what factual basis you can possibly state categorically that we will be competitive next year and finish in the top half?

And furthermore dickos1, I do not cascade Saunders. I castigate. Cascade is defined as: ‘a series that once initiated continues to the end, each step being triggered by the preceding one, sometimes with cumulative effect’ and I would suggest that is what the Chairman instigated back in September resulting in relegation.

Please don’t feel sorry for Saunders. He wasn’t forced to come here and he arrived with his eyes wide open like a kiddy in a sweetshop. He had the final say on every player we recruited. He hasn’t actually bought a player, as you say, but had the January transfer window to buy and sell in. He clearly chose not to. He could sign out of contract players and players without clubs at any time on permanent deals. He chose not to.

As for the evidence that he wanted to build from within? Read the Free Press Archives where SOD categorically stated to JR that the current model was unsustainable and we should be a selling club, nurturing and developing talent.

The players Saunders inherited had been pushing for a play-off place barely 6 months previous. Saunders arrived when players like Billy were coming back into contention following injuries. Unfortunately they were deemed by this Conference monkey to be not good enough, sidelined, alienated and kept out of the shop window thus diminishing any residual value they had. It’s a tough job for any agent to tout round a player who wasn’t deemed good enough to get into the worst TEAM in the Championship by a mile last season. Hence their worth has capitulated.

Donnyroversfc stated, ‘i don't know why donnybob is saying the club was too ambitious and carried away... It was the total opposite to that.’ Afraid I have to disagree there. JR told the media he hadn’t given up on the play-offs this season after recruiting Willie appointing Saunders and that he fully expected the club to be pushing for promotion to the Premiership the following season. Considering where we are now and what is happening with the squad I put it to you his enthusiasm was a tad over-ambitious, wouldn’t you agree?

As ctay suggests, if DS turns things around he’ll be the first to admit he was wrong. I’ll be second, too, if we bounce straight back to the Championship but I fear there’s more chance of me having a period than that!

Oh to be in Crewe or Crawley's shoes now...

Wellred

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Re: Crewe
« Reply #34 on May 30, 2012, 09:16:36 am by Wellred »
Okay Whisky, help me with my lost sense of perception. List the positives to be drawn from our current predicament. Over budget, in contravention of FFP rules and facing the possibility of sanctions. Pre-season games start in barely 6 weeks time.

This ‘massive OTT reaction’ dickos1 is not because of relegation, it is to the manner of how it was brought about and the inevitable aftermath that surrounds catastrophic managerial and policy decisions. Please do tell me on what factual basis you can possibly state categorically that we will be competitive next year and finish in the top half?

And furthermore dickos1, I do not cascade Saunders. I castigate. Cascade is defined as: ‘a series that once initiated continues to the end, each step being triggered by the preceding one, sometimes with cumulative effect’ and I would suggest that is what the Chairman instigated back in September resulting in relegation.

Please don’t feel sorry for Saunders. He wasn’t forced to come here and he arrived with his eyes wide open like a kiddy in a sweetshop. He had the final say on every player we recruited. He hasn’t actually bought a player, as you say, but had the January transfer window to buy and sell in. He clearly chose not to. He could sign out of contract players and players without clubs at any time on permanent deals. He chose not to.

As for the evidence that he wanted to build from within? Read the Free Press Archives where SOD categorically stated to JR that the current model was unsustainable and we should be a selling club, nurturing and developing talent.

The players Saunders inherited had been pushing for a play-off place barely 6 months previous. Saunders arrived when players like Billy were coming back into contention following injuries. Unfortunately they were deemed by this Conference monkey to be not good enough, sidelined, alienated and kept out of the shop window thus diminishing any residual value they had. It’s a tough job for any agent to tout round a player who wasn’t deemed good enough to get into the worst TEAM in the Championship by a mile last season. Hence their worth has capitulated.

Donnyroversfc stated, ‘i don't know why donnybob is saying the club was too ambitious and carried away... It was the total opposite to that.’ Afraid I have to disagree there. JR told the media he hadn’t given up on the play-offs this season after recruiting Willie appointing Saunders and that he fully expected the club to be pushing for promotion to the Premiership the following season. Considering where we are now and what is happening with the squad I put it to you his enthusiasm was a tad over-ambitious, wouldn’t you agree?

As ctay suggests, if DS turns things around he’ll be the first to admit he was wrong. I’ll be second, too, if we bounce straight back to the Championship but I fear there’s more chance of me having a period than that!

Oh to be in Crewe or Crawley's shoes now...

There is a simple solution Donnybob.

If you are so anti everything Doncaster Rovers and so madly in love with Crawley (or should I say O'Driscoll) why not support them or maybe Crewe as that is a bit nearer.


dickos1

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Re: Crewe
« Reply #35 on May 30, 2012, 09:33:22 am by dickos1 »
Okay Whisky, help me with my lost sense of perception. List the positives to be drawn from our current predicament. Over budget, in contravention of FFP rules and facing the possibility of sanctions. Pre-season games start in barely 6 weeks time.

This ‘massive OTT reaction’ dickos1 is not because of relegation, it is to the manner of how it was brought about and the inevitable aftermath that surrounds catastrophic managerial and policy decisions. Please do tell me on what factual basis you can possibly state categorically that we will be competitive next year and finish in the top half?

And furthermore dickos1, I do not cascade Saunders. I castigate. Cascade is defined as: ‘a series that once initiated continues to the end, each step being triggered by the preceding one, sometimes with cumulative effect’ and I would suggest that is what the Chairman instigated back in September resulting in relegation.

Please don’t feel sorry for Saunders. He wasn’t forced to come here and he arrived with his eyes wide open like a kiddy in a sweetshop. He had the final say on every player we recruited. He hasn’t actually bought a player, as you say, but had the January transfer window to buy and sell in. He clearly chose not to. He could sign out of contract players and players without clubs at any time on permanent deals. He chose not to.

As for the evidence that he wanted to build from within? Read the Free Press Archives where SOD categorically stated to JR that the current model was unsustainable and we should be a selling club, nurturing and developing talent.

The players Saunders inherited had been pushing for a play-off place barely 6 months previous. Saunders arrived when players like Billy were coming back into contention following injuries. Unfortunately they were deemed by this Conference monkey to be not good enough, sidelined, alienated and kept out of the shop window thus diminishing any residual value they had. It’s a tough job for any agent to tout round a player who wasn’t deemed good enough to get into the worst TEAM in the Championship by a mile last season. Hence their worth has capitulated.

Donnyroversfc stated, ‘i don't know why donnybob is saying the club was too ambitious and carried away... It was the total opposite to that.’ Afraid I have to disagree there. JR told the media he hadn’t given up on the play-offs this season after recruiting Willie appointing Saunders and that he fully expected the club to be pushing for promotion to the Premiership the following season. Considering where we are now and what is happening with the squad I put it to you his enthusiasm was a tad over-ambitious, wouldn’t you agree?

As ctay suggests, if DS turns things around he’ll be the first to admit he was wrong. I’ll be second, too, if we bounce straight back to the Championship but I fear there’s more chance of me having a period than that!

Oh to be in Crewe or Crawley's shoes now...

Bob, can you state categorically that we won't be competitive next year? And that we will go down? Of course you can't, no fan in the country can that's what makes being a supporter exciting cause you never know.
As for Saunders I don't feel sorry for him at all, you say he had the final decision on every player, correct but that was the final decision on players that were mostly not good enough, give fergie a group of average players and say take your pick and even he will struggle he can't turn them into good players can he.
His hands were tied.
Who in January could he have signed, with no money? We even sold our best player and he wasn't given any of the cash, he released quite a lot of players in jan but didn't have the cash to bring anyone in. He didn't choose not to that's just ridiculous.
Sod did believe in developing players, like Bennett, dumbuya, but the lack of players coming through the youth team must be partly down to him not trusting them and not giving them contracts longer than 3 or 4 months.
The players were good enough 8 months previous, but that happens look at reading in prem, first season they finished in top 6 the next season they went down. We were in a terrible run of form 2 wins in 30 odd, it doesn't matter how good they were 8 months before, they were struggling for 8 months continually and people forget that. We hadn't won in 19 games, we were bottom of the table and then you have a go at Saunders for trying to change the players around. They had failed under a great manager, therefore they weren't good enough.

The Beast

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Re: Crewe
« Reply #36 on May 30, 2012, 10:06:09 am by The Beast »
It'd be brilliant to have a youth system like Crewe but while ever we've got a centre of excellence and teams like Shef U, L9%ds and Barnsley and Hull have got acadamys we are pissing in the wind.
       As soon as any kid with any sort of potential is out of nappies they are collared by LUFC and training down at their satellite acadamy at Hayfield school. When it comes to signing apprentices the acadamies have the first pick of all the best players then the rest of the clubs scrap over what's left.
       To actually have an acadamy would take millions of pounds in investment as certain criteria must be met, it'd then take about 20 years of good management and developing coaching and scouting networks.

DearneValleyRover

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Re: Crewe
« Reply #37 on May 30, 2012, 11:02:51 am by DearneValleyRover »
Ooooh, touchy, eh?

Some of us are equally sick of the worth a punt, we should nick this or that guy when the truth is we can't go for anyone until the mess that's been created is resolved. There is no long term plan. Fact is we've a shit manager appointed in haste by a knee-jerk board and all we've got to look forward to right now is waiting for good players to walk away.



Touchy, no, fed up trying to read threads that are hijacked continuously by the same rhetoric, yes!

RoversAlias

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Re: Crewe
« Reply #38 on May 30, 2012, 12:18:04 pm by RoversAlias »
Yeah, oh how I'd love to be like Crawley. Bankrolled by some rich owner who if he leaves would see Crawley soon plunge back to the dark cloud of nothingness they came from, a set of thugs for players and a reputation that is among the worst in the football league overall.

Most importantly, Crawley (and Crewe for that matter) are not currently better sides than us. Why would we want to be in their shoes?

whisky

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Re: Crewe
« Reply #39 on May 30, 2012, 04:55:20 pm by whisky »
Oh Donnybob, I agree with you on something's you say and I disagree on many others but to start listing them would be going in circles. What I suggest is you cut back on this coffee of yours you keep inviting the rest of us unenlightened individuals to smell (have a few whiskies instead ) and try to enjoy the summer safe in the knowledge that there are people far more knowledgeable and experienced running this club than you or I. Any potential problem you can think of will have been given much more thought than you by the board, they may have even thought about solutions to these problems aswell.

 

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