An interesting consequence...

[jmt]

I think I heard/saw that it was mr walker , who introduced the idea to John. He never seemed to be the best lover of Sean either!

[Donnybob]

Quote: "So he should have come in and said were rubbish I'm rubbish I think we will go down, I can't see us winning many games to be honest. Give over "

Afraid there's a chasm of difference between what you're suggesting and what Saunders said Dickos1.

Saunders could easily have said, 'There's a mountain to climb and I'm going to do my best.' But he didn't.

Saunders boasted to the gathered media that HE knew what was WRONG and that HE could get a winning team on the pitch.

What the happy clappers didn't appreciate was that HE knew HE was the WRONG appointment and I fear he'll get us relegated again before we reach a level that's compatible with his competence and only then will we perhaps get a winning team.

Without a doubt Suanders proved his unsuitability for the job by foolishly claiming, 'We have nothing to fear in this league'.

It's patently obvious that we did and anyone with half a brain knew that.

But then again I don't blame him for taking a three league promotion and a lucrative contract, although it's probably tarnished his credibility for ever. I blame the idiot who made the knee-jerk decision to appoint him.

You know when a manager is doing a good job. His name is touted round in the media every time a decent vacancy arises. Saunders for Hereford, perhaps? Nah, I doubt even they'd want him.

Chris makes a very valid point. It's funny how those who hounded SOD try to spin wanting rid of a liability like Saunders as being disloyal. It's not that at all. Blindly backing a deluded incomeptent is not how to rebuild this club. Wrong man, wrong timing and sitting on a time bomb.

[dickos1]

One question remains and is an indicator how hard the Championship is.....

Why was it the best manger this club has ever had only won 3 games in 9 months?

Answer ....cos we were out of our depth!

Thus how the hell can we judge Saunders ?

If the Championship is such a hard league, to the extent that we can't "judge" Saunders, then what the hell was the club doing "judging" Sean O'Driscoll as the wrong man for the club?! You can't criticise a manager for having a poor run in the Championship and then claim it's unfair to criticise a different manager for having a poor run in the same damn league.

I've been convinced since the day the decision was made that Dean Saunders didn't get the job because of footballing reasons.

You can't judge him because he never bought a player, he lost our best player, we were failing before he came and we carried on failing. What did you expect him to do with no money, the worst side in the country for last 8 months?
He carried on having a poor run, mainly due to the same failing players.

[dickos1]

We have nothing to fear in this league is quoted by 72 football league managers every week

[pubteam]

One question remains and is an indicator how hard the Championship is.....

Why was it the best manger this club has ever had only won 3 games in 9 months?

Answer ....cos we were out of our depth!

Thus how the hell can we judge Saunders ?

If the Championship is such a hard league, to the extent that we can't "judge" Saunders, then what the hell was the club doing "judging" Sean O'Driscoll as the wrong man for the club?! You can't criticise a manager for having a poor run in the Championship and then claim it's unfair to criticise a different manager for having a poor run in the same damn league.

I've been convinced since the day the decision was made that Dean Saunders didn't get the job because of footballing reasons.

You can't judge him because he never bought a player, he lost our best player, we were failing before he came and we carried on failing. What did you expect him to do with no money, the worst side in the country for last 8 months?
He carried on having a poor run, mainly due to the same failing players.

And O'Driscoll paid the price for failing to strengthen us in areas where we most needed strengthening - namely GK, centre half, and up front.

[SiBo]

Failed to strengthen or unable to strengthen? All the evidence suggests the latter given the budgets contraints. Read Paul Goodwin's analysis in the DFP a few weeks ago again and then read between the lines. You can't think that for someone of SOD's intelligence he would just stubbornly overlook what was bloody obvious to everyone else if he was able to do something about it. Do you honestly think Richard Naylor would have been his first choice defensive target last summer? This being the man who had previously brought in Shackell and Mills? Much, much bigger influences at work that SOD 'failing to strengthen.'

[Chris]

Sean O'Driscoll knew exactly where we needed to strengthen but we didn't have the budget to bring the players required into the club. I don't even know why the club gave O'Driscoll the job in the first place. Seems pretty pointless when we have footballing geniuses in abundance on this forum.

[Donnybob]

"You can't judge him because he never bought a player, he lost our best player, we were failing before he came and we carried on failing. What did you expect him to do with no money, the worst side in the country for last 8 months?
He carried on having a poor run, mainly due to the same failing players."[/quote]

Then I refer you to this sounbite he gave to the media: "I don’t have to be scrambling around like a lunatic trying to get loads of players in, I can have a look at what we’ve got and obviously winning stops the panic".

To suggest he never actually 'bought' a player when he signed up Chimbonda, Diouff and a dozen or so other players, all supposedly way out of our normal target range is tantamount to sicking your head in the sand like the proverbial an ostridge. And please don't go down the route of saying they weren't his choices because he also told us that he had the final say.

If he didn't then he was simply appointed as a puppet and therefore as part of the experiment he should have been abandoned along with it.

[Chris]

Many of those who are claiming that Saunders hasn't been able to bring in a single player were, in the past, defending the experiment on the grounds that Saunders has the final say over transfers and team selection.

[pubteam]

Failed to strengthen or unable to strengthen? All the evidence suggests the latter given the budgets contraints. Read Paul Goodwin's analysis in the DFP a few weeks ago again and then read between the lines. You can't think that for someone of SOD's intelligence he would just stubbornly overlook what was bloody obvious to everyone else if he was able to do something about it. Do you honestly think Richard Naylor would have been his first choice defensive target last summer? This being the man who had previously brought in Shackell and Mills? Much, much bigger influences at work that SOD 'failing to strengthen.'

Well put it this way - he had the budget available to overstaff the midfield with people like Giles Barnes. Was he really a necessary signing? He had the budget available to offer contracts to Richard Naylor, Sam Hird, Rachid Bouhenna, Oscar Radford etc, meaning we had seven centre halves on the books at the start of the season, none of which were going to do the job of a Shackell or a Matthew Mills. Wouldn't it have been better to have looked for quality over quantity? The fact of the matter is, the defence had been an issue ever since Shackell left - but in the time between Shackell leaving and SOD being sacked, we'd offered contracts to Thomas, Souza, Friend, Bouhenna, Radford, Naylor, Lockwood, Hird (twice) - is O'Driscoll completely blameless for that? Are you denying that we could've avoided that turnover of defenders and brought in one or two better/longer-term solutions?

As for the goalkeeper, Saunders proved how relatively simple it was to get a decent goalkeeper in on the cheap like Button - why couldn't SOD do the same? Again, I come back to offering contracts to people we didn't need/weren't good enough. To start the season with Gary Woods and Sullivan as the only goalkeeping options was criminal. I find it hard to believe that it would be SO difficult to get someone in who was actually good enough. Especially considering that he gave Sullivan a new contract last summer - undoubtedly someone who was on decent money, and for what? To warm the bench?

[pubteam]

Sean O'Driscoll knew exactly where we needed to strengthen but we didn't have the budget to bring the players required into the club. I don't even know why the club gave O'Driscoll the job in the first place. Seems pretty pointless when we have footballing geniuses in abundance on this forum.

Difficult to see why they bother having a board of directors either. They could just let you make all the decisions.

[Chris]

Sean O'Driscoll knew exactly where we needed to strengthen but we didn't have the budget to bring the players required into the club. I don't even know why the club gave O'Driscoll the job in the first place. Seems pretty pointless when we have footballing geniuses in abundance on this forum.

Difficult to see why they bother having a board of directors either. They could just let you make all the decisions.

I'm over-qualified.

[Donnybob]

Do you really think Saunders 'proved how simple it was to sign a decent goalkeeper on the cheap' or was that down to Willy pulling in favours. And did it provide a solution? I thought we got relegated.

Raking over SOD's plus or minus points is avoiding the real issues. We were out of the bottom 3 a couple of games after Saunders arrived using the existing squad so what happened before that is largely irrelevant. What has happened since is what matters.

Harry Redknap made a telling comment yesterday. He said that he was leaving Tottenham in better shape than when he arrived. This club was still in better shape on the day SOD left than when he arrived. I wish I could say the same for Saunders be that today or even whenever he eventually leaves.

[DearneValleyRover]

Well I'd say the last 2 pages are proof sufficient of Bob's original post.

[pubteam]

Do you really think Saunders 'proved how simple it was to sign a decent goalkeeper on the cheap' or was that down to Willy pulling in favours. And did it provide a solution? I thought we got relegated.

Raking over SOD's plus or minus points is avoiding the real issues. We were out of the bottom 3 a couple of games after Saunders arrived using the existing squad so what happened before that is largely irrelevant. What has happened since is what matters.

Harry Redknap made a telling comment yesterday. He said that he was leaving Tottenham in better shape than when he arrived. This club was still in better shape on the day SOD left than when he arrived. I wish I could say the same for Saunders be that today or even whenever he eventually leaves.

Well of course McKay helped bring in Button, but SOD was too pig-headed to work with McKay, even on the odd deal, meaning that although it WOULD'VE been easy to get such a goalkeeper in on loan, it was made impossible by the manager seemingly refusing to bring in any player other than by the conventional route.

And as for the brainless comment that bringing Button in didn't solve anything because we were relegated - are you denying that Button was a better goalkeeper than G.Woods or a 41 y/o Sullivan? And are you telling me that the only thing wrong with our squad was the goalkeeper, and that once we solved that we'd avoid the drop? What did you expect Button to do? Save every shot?

You seem to have made the mistake of thinking that I'm signing Saunders' praises and slagging off SOD - I'm not. I'm trying to point out that people seem to gloss over SOD's failings, and seem to attribute no responsibility for our predicament to him whatsoever. I've argued the toss over this too many times over the last nine months, so all I'll say is, if you genuinely believe that SOD holds no responsibility for us ending up with the weak squad that we had, then more fool you.

As for the last part, you can't really comment on what state Saunders will leave the club in when he goes, because that remains to be seen. I'm not interested in your premonitions that he will start next season badly and get the boot - you simply don't know that.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Failed to strengthen or unable to strengthen? All the evidence suggests the latter given the budgets contraints. Read Paul Goodwin's analysis in the DFP a few weeks ago again and then read between the lines. You can't think that for someone of SOD's intelligence he would just stubbornly overlook what was bloody obvious to everyone else if he was able to do something about it. Do you honestly think Richard Naylor would have been his first choice defensive target last summer? This being the man who had previously brought in Shackell and Mills? Much, much bigger influences at work that SOD 'failing to strengthen.'

M'Lud. Exhibit A: Paul Green, first half of 07-08.
Exhibit B Paul Heffernan, first half of 08-09.

[drfc1951]

There is permanent damage Norfolk, I would liken our club to the Titanic racing  away at a rate of knots, hitting the iceberg and well you know the rest of the story ...........

The only thing causing damage to our club is this thread,its run its course.

[Donnybob]

Quote: 'but SOD was too pig-headed to work with McKay'. And who told you that?

Do try and deal in facts rather than supposition.

As for 'easy to bring in players on the cheap' afraid it's not the manager who negotiates contracts, is it?

The club is in a far worse position today than on the day Saunders arrived. I'd venture it's fair to state that as a fact.

And can you point out where I posted that he will start next season badly and get sacked?

I simply said he would leave the club at some point because that is football and I said in my last post 'whenever he leaves'. I've no idea how we'll fare in League One under Saunders. Right now he ain't even got a team although you could argue he has barely had one since the experiment began and failed so miserably.

What we'll never know is whether it failed because it's a flawed concept or because it was poorly managed. The results (FACTS) point to the latter which means the only possible saving grace I can cling on to for next season is that the opposition will be so much poorer and tactically inept.

[Viking Don]

There is permanent damage Norfolk, I would liken our club to the Titanic racing  away at a rate of knots, hitting the iceberg and well you know the rest of the story ...........

The only thing causing damage to our club is this thread,its run its course.

Failed to strengthen or unable to strengthen? All the evidence suggests the latter given the budgets contraints. Read Paul Goodwin's analysis in the DFP a few weeks ago again and then read between the lines. You can't think that for someone of SOD's intelligence he would just stubbornly overlook what was bloody obvious to everyone else if he was able to do something about it. Do you honestly think Richard Naylor would have been his first choice defensive target last summer? This being the man who had previously brought in Shackell and Mills? Much, much bigger influences at work that SOD 'failing to strengthen.'

M'Lud. Exhibit A: Paul Green, first half of 07-08.
Exhibit B Paul Heffernan, first half of 08-09.

Yep he wasn't God.

In fact he was a very naughty boy.

[dickos1]

The players Saunders signed were his only option, he only had the means to sign these foreign free agents.
Yes he had the final say, but he had the final say on players that weren't good enough.
Mourinho, wenger, ferguson cant turn poor players into good players, they were his only option

[dodge123]

As much as i loved  sod, and i was his biggest fan, 22 games without a win says it all really, in any managerial career in any league!, albeit an injury hit side at times , he still had the years to allow for this. Judge Saunders from next season, its simple really.

[Red wizard]

I can't belive we are still having the old Deano v SOD slagging match. Come on people sort it out. We are 2 weeks away from pre season, we need to be pulling together. Lets give Dean a chance and see what happens.

[donnybez]

For heavens sake this is the reason why I rarely post on here. This constant tribal belief in SOD or Saunders but never both. The club is in a new season, the page has been turned and the story is anew and fresh, why cant everyone just give over, let SOD rest in peace in Crawley and back Saunders? I know hes not the cup of tea to everyone but neither was SOD. Lets give him time, patience and see what he conjures up. I can safely say I'm behind SOD, him and any who sits behind the managers desk dealing with the matters and issues of DRFC.

I for one think lets call this bickering and arguing to an end and concentrate on supporting the side and the future. Learn the mistakes like we have done and learn to stop going over it. If last season was a body in a morgue, its clearly in no condition to be gone over yet again and should just be buried and left in peace.


RTID

[drfc1951]

For heavens sake this is the reason why I rarely post on here. This constant tribal belief in SOD or Saunders but never both. The club is in a new season, the page has been turned and the story is anew and fresh, why cant everyone just give over, let SOD rest in peace in Crawley and back Saunders? I know hes not the cup of tea to everyone but neither was SOD. Lets give him time, patience and see what he conjures up. I can safely say I'm behind SOD, him and any who sits behind the managers desk dealing with the matters and issues of DRFC.

I for one think lets call this bickering and arguing to an end and concentrate on supporting the side and the future. Learn the mistakes like we have done and learn to stop going over it. If last season was a body in a morgue, its clearly in no condition to be gone over yet again and should just be buried and left in peace.


RTID

I agree, its getting beyond  joke now just support the current manager and the players he brings in.

[Donnybob]

My God man, they'll be sending you out to solve the Middle East Crisis next! Racism in football, easy, let's just kick it out. Unemployment? Give 'em a job. Debt crisis? Print some more money...

This thread began with a very pertinent post recognising that the fan base is divided. Let me remind you:

"I believe the club sold 10 years work, values and reputation down the line in less than a week. I continue to be sufficiently disappointed to believe that it will be impossible, in my lifetime, to reignite the passion and the pride that was shattered by the events of last October. But that's just one side of the continuing conflict isn't it?"

Don't you see you can't cure a problem like that with platitudes. Those who resent the very presence of Saunders will never accept him unless he has us knocking on the door of the Premiership (as was promised on his arrival) - that's what he was brought in to do.

Heaven forbid he has a bad start to next season because there will be a bloodbath.

We need to be absolutely realistic and accept that next season will see reduced attendances even if we do well. Folk are disillusioned with the club and the way things have been handled. It's not because we were relegated but the circumstances under which it happened. Folk who predicted the 'experiment' was a huge error of judgement and were subsequently proved right.

There will be bitterness surrounding the club and Saunders until a clean break is made because if he has a bad run you will get a flood of 'We told you so' posts. If he does well you'll get another bunch of supporters crowing 'WE told you so'. And if we have a mediocre start - remember this is the guy who himself said, 'There is nothing worse than just floating half way up the league' - then both factions will be unhappy. Especially if we're playing hoofball which I suspect is what awaits.

Wake up and see the bigger picture - it doesn't matter if you love the guy or hate him, whatever happens on the pitch will rip the club apart. It's time for the Chairman to rip up the script and get rid. Let's appoint a manager through the due and proper process, forget the past and start over again from scratch. It won't matter so much then how we perform and only then will there ever be any chance of harmony and cohesion among supporters.

If you want to get behind this manager, then by all means do so, but don't expect EVERYONE to follow you like a herd of sheep because that's simply not going to happen. Plenty on here were calling for SOD's head when he had a near identical run of results to that which Saunders has now had yet those same folk cannot possibly be happy with Saunders yet the blame is constantly pushed at those who respected SOD.

It's not SOD versus Saunders, it's fan group versus fan group and cannot be reconciled. That's why he has to go.

[Wellred]

My God man, they'll be sending you out to solve the Middle East Crisis next! Racism in football, easy, let's just kick it out. Unemployment? Give 'em a job. Debt crisis? Print some more money...

This thread began with a very pertinent post recognising that the fan base is divided. Let me remind you:

"I believe the club sold 10 years work, values and reputation down the line in less than a week. I continue to be sufficiently disappointed to believe that it will be impossible, in my lifetime, to reignite the passion and the pride that was shattered by the events of last October. But that's just one side of the continuing conflict isn't it?"

Don't you see you can't cure a problem like that with platitudes. Those who resent the very presence of Saunders will never accept him unless he has us knocking on the door of the Premiership (as was promised on his arrival) - that's what he was brought in to do.

Heaven forbid he has a bad start to next season because there will be a bloodbath.

We need to be absolutely realistic and accept that next season will see reduced attendances even if we do well. Folk are disillusioned with the club and the way things have been handled. It's not because we were relegated but the circumstances under which it happened. Folk who predicted the 'experiment' was a huge error of judgement and were subsequently proved right.

There will be bitterness surrounding the club and Saunders until a clean break is made because if he has a bad run you will get a flood of 'We told you so' posts. If he does well you'll get another bunch of supporters crowing 'WE told you so'. And if we have a mediocre start - remember this is the guy who himself said, 'There is nothing worse than just floating half way up the league' - then both factions will be unhappy. Especially if we're playing hoofball which I suspect is what awaits.

Wake up and see the bigger picture - it doesn't matter if you love the guy or hate him, whatever happens on the pitch will rip the club apart. It's time for the Chairman to rip up the script and get rid. Let's appoint a manager through the due and proper process, forget the past and start over again from scratch. It won't matter so much then how we perform and only then will there ever be any chance of harmony and cohesion among supporters.

If you want to get behind this manager, then by all means do so, but don't expect EVERYONE to follow you like a herd of sheep because that's simply not going to happen. Plenty on here were calling for SOD's head when he had a near identical run of results to that which Saunders has now had yet those same folk cannot possibly be happy with Saunders yet the blame is constantly pushed at those who respected SOD.

It's not SOD versus Saunders, it's fan group versus fan group and cannot be reconciled. That's why he has to go.

I think the best clean break we could have would be for you to SOD off to Crawley instead of posting on here with your constant drivel and rubbish.

[drfc1951]

If JR got rid like you said, who ever was appointed manager would be resented by certain people on here.

[Filo]

My God man, they'll be sending you out to solve the Middle East Crisis next! Racism in football, easy, let's just kick it out. Unemployment? Give 'em a job. Debt crisis? Print some more money...

This thread began with a very pertinent post recognising that the fan base is divided. Let me remind you:

"I believe the club sold 10 years work, values and reputation down the line in less than a week. I continue to be sufficiently disappointed to believe that it will be impossible, in my lifetime, to reignite the passion and the pride that was shattered by the events of last October. But that's just one side of the continuing conflict isn't it?"

Don't you see you can't cure a problem like that with platitudes. Those who resent the very presence of Saunders will never accept him unless he has us knocking on the door of the Premiership (as was promised on his arrival) - that's what he was brought in to do.

Heaven forbid he has a bad start to next season because there will be a bloodbath.

We need to be absolutely realistic and accept that next season will see reduced attendances even if we do well. Folk are disillusioned with the club and the way things have been handled. It's not because we were relegated but the circumstances under which it happened. Folk who predicted the 'experiment' was a huge error of judgement and were subsequently proved right.

There will be bitterness surrounding the club and Saunders until a clean break is made because if he has a bad run you will get a flood of 'We told you so' posts. If he does well you'll get another bunch of supporters crowing 'WE told you so'. And if we have a mediocre start - remember this is the guy who himself said, 'There is nothing worse than just floating half way up the league' - then both factions will be unhappy. Especially if we're playing hoofball which I suspect is what awaits.

Wake up and see the bigger picture - it doesn't matter if you love the guy or hate him, whatever happens on the pitch will rip the club apart. It's time for the Chairman to rip up the script and get rid. Let's appoint a manager through the due and proper process, forget the past and start over again from scratch. It won't matter so much then how we perform and only then will there ever be any chance of harmony and cohesion among supporters.

If you want to get behind this manager, then by all means do so, but don't expect EVERYONE to follow you like a herd of sheep because that's simply not going to happen. Plenty on here were calling for SOD's head when he had a near identical run of results to that which Saunders has now had yet those same folk cannot possibly be happy with Saunders yet the blame is constantly pushed at those who respected SOD.

It's not SOD versus Saunders, it's fan group versus fan group and cannot be reconciled. That's why he has to go.

This post is exactly why there are divisions within the fan base, a blatant refusal to accept the current manager, regardless of what happens in the current season!

[Standanista]

I'd all be a lot more group-huggy if we hadn't lost far too many games in the last season-and-half and got relegated, of course.

[Donnybob]

Dead right mate. Dead right.

Some folk won't ever get used to having Saunders around and as for me personally I can't wait for the day he leaves. He's only here because he's part of JR's ridiculous experiment and as such should have been discarded when it was abandoned. Whatever possessed him to throw 3-year contracts around I'll never know.

There. Happy?

I suppose f**k off to Crawley is better than f**k off to Leeds but in that single post by the guru that is Wellred we can see the problem I outlined precisely. Our way or the highway. Well, tell you what, that's me not spending a penny on the Rovers till we play Crawley.

In the words of the dragons, I'm out.

Well done!

No can someone tell me how I log out of this site, please?