England

[roverstillidie91]

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have to say Italy deserved it in the end,  controlled the game we probably only had 2 or 3 shots all the game

why can't we learn to keep the ball!!

and ashley young... massively over rated in my opinion why did he blast the penalty

time to get shut of the old guard and bring in a newer team for the world cup

[MachoMadness]

Once it went to penalties, that was it really. Have to say far too many players went missing in the second half, I thought we edged the first half and can't understand why we couldn't string 2 passes together in the 2nd.

Agree about Young, been crap all tournament, far too hot and cold to make it at this level, and Walcott looked better when he came on even when we were too under the kosh to ever give him the ball.

Really gutted though, I thought when Montolivo missed that it might FINALLY be our time, but sadly not.

[mushRTID]

Disappointed we gave Pirlo the freedom of Kiev.

Young has been a waste of space this tournament, his penalty summed him up.

Rooney tired as expected. Carroll looks good in an England shirt.

Highlight had to be Joe Harts facial expressions.

[BillyStubbsTears]

As I said last week. 6th-8th best in Europe. Just like we have been all my adult life.

We concentrate on the money side of the game in our country, but we are years adrift of other countries in terms of producing players, managers and approaches that can take on the world. We are always a decade behind. We always have been.

And thank Christ we didn't run into a REALLY good side like Germany or Spain. We've been thoroughly out-played tonight by one of the second division sides in Europe. THAT is how far from the very top we are.

[mushRTID]

it was pretty noticeable how ofter a slight bit of pressure caused our lads to panic and hoof it or give it away.

No composure or technical ability.

Should have pursuaded Scholes back.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Mark Lawrenson said during the second half:
"Why is it that for 10 years now, England have never been able to retain possession against good sides?"

Answer:
A) Because England's players are over-rated, over-paid, over-hyped, over-deified second-raters.
B) It's been 40 years, not ten years.

Always have been. No signs whatsoever that we will ever change from being.

But hey. Whilst ever the premier League is bringing the coin in, why should we change?

[roverstillidie91]

time to look to the future now

gradually we are finding more and more technically gifted players but isn't going to happen over night unfortunately

time to discard of the services of the old guard except probably Gerrard for the world cup qualifying campaign

i'd go for something in the region of this

Hart

Walker --- Cahill --- Jones --- Gibbs

Wilshere --- Gerrard

Walcott --- Rooney --- Oxlade-Chamberlain

Welbeck

[mushRTID]

Agreed. Walker, Cahill and Wilshire in particular are all exciting players and probably would have played a part if fit.

[roverstillidie91]

As strange as this sounds

makes me wonder why we couldn't have taken someone like Leon Britton

who is actually comfortable on the ball under pressure unlike the likes of Parker who to be honest is more of a runner and a fighter than good on the ball

[The Beast]

I agree about Scholes! A player who can deal with the ball and pass, Pirlo at 37 was the best player on the pitch by a mile.
  Every time an England player got the ball  all his team mates ran away from him, we've got no creative players the mentality is all wrong.

[mjdgreg]

When I was at school I was by far the most technically gifted player. My nickname was Zico after the legendary Brazilian player. Did I play for the school team? No. Did I ever imagine myself making a career out of football? No.

Why? Because it was all about athleticism and not skill. Every time you got the ball there would be numerous people screaming at you to get rid of it straight away. You could only succeed in that type of environment if you were bigger, stronger and a fast runner. It was no surprise that it was the 'early developers' that were in the school team. It was nothing to do with ability all to do with being bigger and stronger than the other players.

It's still the same today. Skill is not valued. Athleticism is. When you come up against the teams with excellent technical ability you are always going to be found out. Saunders is also a classic example of this flawed approach. The only way England will ever win anything is if they get unbelievably lucky.

[Chris Black come back]

I agree about Scholes! A player who can deal with the ball and pass, Pirlo at 37 was the best player on the pitch by a mile.
  Every time an England player got the ball  all his team mates ran away from him, we've got no creative players the mentality is all wrong.

Pirlo has just (last month) turned 33.

[Chris Black come back]

time to look to the future now

gradually we are finding more and more technically gifted players but isn't going to happen over night unfortunately

time to discard of the services of the old guard except probably Gerrard for the world cup qualifying campaign

i'd go for something in the region of this

Hart

Walker --- Cahill --- Jones --- Gibbs

Wilshere --- Gerrard

Walcott --- Rooney --- Oxlade-Chamberlain

Welbeck

Ashley Cole has got a face that just asks to be slapped but it is ludicrous to think that Kieron Gibbs is fit to wipe his boots - or ever will be. If Cole could threaten the goal a bit more he would be on par with Lahm as the best full back in the world.

[MachoMadness]

Think Cole and Lescott could still do a job out of the "old guard". Terry also saved our bacon many, many times in this tournament. I understand people's first response whenever things go badly is to bring up younger players, but look at players like Young and Welbeck who let this tournament pass them by (I know Welbeck scored a great goal, but besides that he's not looked remotely threatening). Just immediately ringing the changes isn't the answer this time. Our best players this tournament were still Gerrard and Cole, as they have been for years.

Ah well. It was better than the World Cup, at least.

[Chris Black come back]

I think the main achievement of this tournament is that supporters probably now believe that the England players generally (a) give a shit; and (b) are willing to put a shift in.

Much more difficult task of actually making us much cop, but Roy has at least made the first step. Good on him.

[MrFrost]

Probably Terrys best display in national colours.

Andy Billy Sharp would have done a better job than Rooney tonight.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

For me the players did their best. It's not their fault if they're not good enough, but they put in the effort, can't ask more than that.

[Chris]

Thankfully there has been changes to youth football in England over the past month or so. I hope the national squad comes to reap the benefits of this in the future in the same way the Germans seem to be following their changes after Euro 2000!

[newyankee]

 I have to say that as long as we allow Premiership teams to have as many overseas players, including EU then we will always be second best.

  Even our so called top players have difficulty making regular first team appearances.  Where is there for young talented players to go, none of the other foreign leagues want to fill their teams with our players.

  Money has spoiled the English international team, but made the Premiership the best in the world. So,in the end we can blame the premier League and the F.A. for our downfall and as long as the system exists, we will stay second rate internationally.

[Chris Black come back]

I wish it was that simple. Real Madrid have just won La Liga with a team packed full of foreign players (Pepe, Carvalho, Khedira, Ronaldo, Kaka, Benzema, Ozil, Diarra, Higuain) and this doesn't seem to have damaged the Spanish national team.

[Chris]

Disagree with the above regarding Andy Carroll. I haven't been a huge fan of him this season but I thought he gave us a different option when he came on today. We should have used him more as Italy struggled to handle him without Chiellini.

[grayx]

Disagree with the above regarding Andy Carroll. I haven't been a huge fan of him this season but I thought he gave us a different option when he came on today. We should have used him more as Italy struggled to handle him without Chiellini.

Really? I thought he was awful. Wins headers but thats it and his second touch is a tackle

[BillyStubbsTears]

Put it this way. If Carroll is in the best 2or 3 young strikers we have coming through, we ain't going to improve on 8th best in Europe any time soon.

[Chris Black come back]

Carroll is symbolic of the choice facing the FA. Is it realistic to try and reinvent the English game along Spanish or Brazilian lines - or do we accept our weaknesses and play to our strengths? For instance, the Carroll goal against Sweden would not have been defended by anyone, anywhere in the world. Great cross by Gerrard, brilliant header from Carroll.

Not saying we don't have to learn how to string two passes together but our national game is never going to be tiki-taka.

[Filo]

The problem we have in this Country is we play competitive football at an early age, instead of keeping it fun. What happens then is the early developers and the physically stronger players are usually picked to play because parents and coach`s want to win the league, the more technical players are discarded for brute force, and then when the better players go to academy`s at league clubs any lingering technical ability is coached out of them! As it stands at this moment, the England midfield and forward line consist of 2 or 3 plodders and a couple of fast runners, with very little technical ability. It has to change, and the way to do it is in the classroom at an early age instead of competitive leagues, get them in the classroom watching dvd`s of the best footballing teams in the world, explain the reasons why players make runs to create space for other players to run into, the problem is, it might take 10 years or so to change the culture and see any initiative like this to bare fruit!

[jonnydog]

Slightly relieved that we're out after that performance alone would have led to us getting slaughtered by ze Germans.

I've got to say it again, England are at best a 2nd rate international team, but are probably 3rd rate. The last team we had IMO that had the best chance of winning anything was our Euro '96 team. A good team with Gazza doing what he did best. The teams since have not played anywhere near that, and sadly don't seem as passionate!

Rooney for one, has never impressed me in an England shirt and last night was no exception. The only ones who looked remotely good are Walcott, and Gerard in parts. The back 4 didn't seem to comprehend anything as a unit last night and Pirlo was exceptional in ripping apart our players and finding options. How they didn't win it in 90 minutes is unbelievable!

I'm afraid, as a realist, we don't seem to be getting a better team, and can't see England winning another tournament, at least in my lifetime!!

[mjdgreg]

The problem we have in this Country is we play competitive football at an early age, instead of keeping it fun. What happens then is the early developers and the physically stronger players are usually picked to play because parents and coach`s want to win the league, the more technical players are discarded for brute force, and then when the better players go to academy`s at league clubs any lingering technical ability is coached out of them! As it stands at this moment, the England midfield and forward line consist of 2 or 3 plodders and a couple of fast runners, with very little technical ability. It has to change, and the way to do it is in the classroom at an early age instead of competitive leagues, get them in the classroom watching dvd`s of the best footballing teams in the world, explain the reasons why players make runs to create space for other players to run into, the problem is, it might take 10 years or so to change the culture and see any initiative like this to bare fruit!

Totally agree. Send this post to the FA.

[keyser_soze]

You'll never have a strong England team whilst you've a strong Premiership.

Realistically, the pot to pick from for the England side is the players that play at the highest level in Europe, so Man U, Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool. The squad can then be filled up with the star players from other Premier League sides This pot is diluted by the foreign talent that is coming in and taking advantage of playing in Europe for English teams.

Most positions are such that there is not the quality waiting to fill the place of the regular player, goalkeeper for example, how many English keepers are playing regularly in the Prem, let along Europe?

Years ago, Billy Sharp (for example) would likely have been playing in the Premier League, benefiting from playing against the best English players.

Time to reward teams for developing English players, and go back to limiting the number of foreigners in matchday squads. Not that it'll happen.


Totally agree that losing on pens to Italy has saved England another arse-raping by the Germans. Blessing in disguise!

[mjdgreg]

You'll never have a strong England team whilst you've a strong Premiership.

Realistically, the pot to pick from for the England side is the players that play at the highest level in Europe, so Man U, Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool. The squad can then be filled up with the star players from other Premier League sides This pot is diluted by the foreign talent that is coming in and taking advantage of playing in Europe for English teams.

Most positions are such that there is not the quality waiting to fill the place of the regular player, goalkeeper for example, how many English keepers are playing regularly in the Prem, let along Europe?

Years ago, Billy Sharp (for example) would likely have been playing in the Premier League, benefiting from playing against the best English players.

Time to reward teams for developing English players, and go back to limiting the number of foreigners in matchday squads. Not that it'll happen.


Totally agree that losing on pens to Italy has saved England another arse-raping by the Germans. Blessing in disguise!

How do you explain Real Madrid's success with so many foreigners in the side then? If we just had English players in the Premiership we'd be even worse. At least the foreigners can show us how to retain possession and how to pass the ball.

[Dr Fundlekrotch]

The problem we have in this Country is we play competitive football at an early age, instead of keeping it fun. What happens then is the early developers and the physically stronger players are usually picked to play because parents and coach`s want to win the league, the more technical players are discarded for brute force, and then when the better players go to academy`s at league clubs any lingering technical ability is coached out of them! As it stands at this moment, the England midfield and forward line consist of 2 or 3 plodders and a couple of fast runners, with very little technical ability. It has to change, and the way to do it is in the classroom at an early age instead of competitive leagues, get them in the classroom watching dvd`s of the best footballing teams in the world, explain the reasons why players make runs to create space for other players to run into, the problem is, it might take 10 years or so to change the culture and see any initiative like this to bare fruit!

Totally agree. Send this post to the FA.

Change is a-coming.  It may not be enough yet, and its going to take a while, but the FA have woken from their slumber.  Youth football is going through a re-haul, with a phased move to 11-a-side and competitive leagues are likely to be removed before Under 12s.  Some County FAs are taking it on board for the coming season and the rest will follow in 2013/14