Is Michael Phelps the greatest Olympian of all time?

[mjdgreg]

No. There are plenty more that could claim that accolade before him. Just because you've got the most medals doesn't make you the greatest. The greatest is without doubt Muhammad Ali.

What he went on to achieve in the sport of boxing will never ever be surpassed. Even to this day he still displays his greatness the way he confronts his Parkinson's disease. He isn't just the greatest Olympian of all time, he is the greatest athlete that has ever lived or that will ever live.

[jonnydog]

Fully agree on what you say about Ali, true hero... Nuff' said!

[RoversAlias]

Muhammad Ali isn't the greatest Olympian of all time, not for me. He won one gold medal one time. His career after that in boxing is unparallelled, you won't find me arguing there but to call him the greatest Olympian of all time because of what he achieved outside of the Olympics. Under that logic you could say Ryan Giggs is one of the greatest Olympians of all time...which he certainly isn't.

I don't think you could say one person is anyway. Phelps has the most medals sure, but he competes in a sport where he can win 7-8 at each games, whereas most can only win one or two.

[GM-MarkB]

No....whilst not trying to demean his achievements, there are far more opportunities to win medals in the pool.

As for who IS...well I can't answer that

[mjdgreg]

If you're only going to judge it on what has been achieved at Olympic Games then I would give the vote to German Birgit Fischer who won eight gold medals, over six different Olympic Games, even having missed the Los Angeles Games entirely because of the Eastern Bloc boycott.

[bobjimwilly]

...and everyone knows it's a doddle to win 7 golds in 7 days during an olympic games...   

[wilts rover]

Here's a name you probably wont have heard of, Betty Robinson, the first woman to win an athletics medal when she won the 100m in Amsterdam 1928. In 1931 she was involved in plane crash - and pronounced dead by the rescuers. It was only when they took her to the mortuary that it was discovered she was only in a coma. She spent another seven months in the coma, another six in a wheelchair, and a year just learning to walk again. She recovered so well that in 1936 she was able to qualify for the American team again, although she couldn't kneel down properly to take part in the 100m - only the relay. The Americans were in second place when the German team dropped the baton on the final leg - and 5 years after being pronounced dead Betty Robinson won her second Olympic gold medal.

Cassius Clay may have been a good Olympic boxer, John Carlos may have made a significant Olympic statement, Betty Robinson coming back from the dead, now that is the sign of greatness.

[jonnydog]

Jesus Christ eat your heart out! He MAY have come back, but didn't get a Gold medal

[RedJ]

How about that American lass that almost lost her feet thanks to a disease whose name escapes me before coming back to win gold in her event (which I think was 100 metres, but that's also slipped my mind).

[mjdgreg]

Another contender is Hungarian fencer Aladar Gerevich who is the only person to win an event 6 times (despite two games passed because of the Second World War). He won his last gold medal 28 years after winning his first.

Something that needs to be borne in mind with Phelps is that swimming offers a lot more opportunity for medals and 8 of his gold medals have come as part of a relay team. This puts him way down the list IMO.

[GM-MarkB]

Another contender is Hungarian fencer Aladar Gerevich who is the only person to win an event 6 times (despite two games passed because of the Second World War). He won his last gold medal 28 years after winning his first.

Something that needs to be borne in mind with Phelps is that swimming offers a lot more opportunity for medals and 8 of his gold medals have come as part of a relay team. This puts him way down the list IMO.

I did bear it in mind...about 6 posts ago...lol

[RoversAlias]

These posts further exemplify for me why no one person can be considered the greatest Olympian ever. There are many contenders.

[MachoMadness]

Phelps is certainly the most successful Olympian, but is that the only thing that defines greatness? I don't have an answer, but debates like this are big reasons why the Olympics continues to be so great. We're talking about great sportsmen for a change, not transfer fees or clubs going bust.

[GM-MarkB]

Medal number 20 secured....

[Filo]

Mark Spitz 1972 Olympics, 7 Golds all won with World Record Times, something Phelps has n`t done

[DC-]

Difficult to gage. Jessie Owens not only captured the Olympic spirit by competing despite the racist ideology of the time but won four gold medals at the time. However, is he the greatest of all time? How is it defined? He's certainly one of the most influential.

What about talent? Personally I'd go for the Heptathletes/Decathletes/Triathletes who perhaps aren't the best in a particular field but excel far beyond average in a multitude of disciplines.

For example Jessica Ennis today got the record for a Heptathlete in the 100m hurdles. Yet I don't think people realise how close she is to the world record; about half a second. Imagine the training it takes to do one discipline. Now imagine how much it takes to do three, seven or ten.

So I suppose by my own logic I've come full circle. Michael Phelps has 20 Gold Medals (unless I've missed the latest) and - I've just looked - has beaten 39 world records across - from what I can see - three disciplines in his career. He's not the greatest, but he's damn good.

To me the greatest Olympians are those truly talented all-round sports-person (politically correct brigade) who shows consistency at the highest level. That is, anyone can be a great Olympian.

[Glyn_Wigley]

The greatest is without doubt Muhammad Ali.

What he went on to achieve in the sport of boxing will never ever be surpassed.

I'm struggling to think of something he did in boxing that hasn't been surpassed or at least matched. However, I'm sure you can enlighten us.

[mjdgreg]

I'm struggling to think of something he did in boxing that hasn't been surpassed or at least matched. However, I'm sure you can enlighten us.

I'm going to leave you struggling. Your post shows how little you know about 'the greatest'.

[Donnywolf]

Unfortunately 2 debates going on both (like Politics) with no definitive answers. People can only offer "subjective" opinions - due to some of the factors already mentioned above

Is a cyclist "more" of a great Olympian than a rower or a Decathlete .... who san say.

Similarly in Boxing there are so many differnet eras , weights and other factors to acclaim one man above all the others. Personality wise and showmanship wise Clay/Ali was one apart but would Mike Tyson have bitten his ear off ? Who can say ?



 

[wilts rover]

I'm struggling to think of something he did in boxing that hasn't been surpassed or at least matched. However, I'm sure you can enlighten us.

I'm going to leave you struggling. Your post shows how little you know about 'the greatest'.

Oh but please do show us your encyclopedic knowledge of sporting achievements, as according to all these people (who know a lot more about boxing than I do) he is not even the greatest boxer of all time:

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/greatest/featureVideo?page=greatest110
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/557861-the-100-greatest-pound-for-pound-boxers-of-all-time/
http://boxing.about.com/od/history/a/50_greatest.htm
http://druhepkins.hubpages.com/hub/Top-Ten-Greatest-Boxers-of-All-Time

[mjdgreg]

Oh but please do show us your encyclopedic knowledge of sporting achievements, as according to all these people (who know a lot more about boxing than I do) he is not even the greatest boxer of all time:

Your problem is that you are easily led and are unable to make your mind up about anything so you seek the views of others and then follow them like a sheep. Ali is not just known as the greatest boxer to have lived, he is also considered to be the greatest sportsman of all time.

Ali was named “Sportsman of the Century” by Sports Illustrated magazine. He defeated every top heavyweight in his era, and was named “Fighter of the Year” by Ring Magazine more times than any other boxer. He is much more than just a boxer. You need to take the blinkers off and stop being so narrow minded.

[CusworthRovers]

Your title is OLYMPIAN, not sportsman.

We need to debate the thread title 'Olympian' as you request, not greatest sportsman.

As Sportsman Ali is worthy of a shout
As Olympian Ali is some way down the pecking order

[DC-]

I want to stick my neck out but I can't just pick one.

Steve Redgrave - 84, 88, 92, 96, 2000 (Consistency)
Carl Lewis - 84, 88, 92, 96 (Sprints and Long Jump)
Tammi Grey Thompson - One of the most successful Paralympians of all time.

The problem is comparing decades. Looking through the list of world records, the men's discus/hammer and a disturbing amount of women's track and field records have been unbeaten since the 80s. I'm sure they didn't know half what they know now about performance enhancing drugs. A lot of the holders seem to be eastern bloc as well.

[Glyn_Wigley]

I'm struggling to think of something he did in boxing that hasn't been surpassed or at least matched. However, I'm sure you can enlighten us.

I'm going to leave you struggling. Your post shows how little you know about 'the greatest'.

Translates as 'I was talking out of my arse as usual, and can't back up what I say'. Just as I expected.

Which is surprising, because normally you can't wait to demonstrate to us how much more you know than the rest of us...!

[wilts rover]

Oh but please do show us your encyclopedic knowledge of sporting achievements, as according to all these people (who know a lot more about boxing than I do) he is not even the greatest boxer of all time:

Your problem is that you are easily led and are unable to make your mind up about anything so you seek the views of others and then follow them like a sheep. Ali is not just known as the greatest boxer to have lived, he is also considered to be the greatest sportsman of all time.

Ali was named “Sportsman of the Century” by Sports Illustrated magazine. He defeated every top heavyweight in his era, and was named “Fighter of the Year” by Ring Magazine more times than any other boxer. He is much more than just a boxer. You need to take the blinkers off and stop being so narrow minded.

Your problem is you have very little empirical grasp or in depth knowledge of your subjects - and try and challenge that of others by insults. I engage in research and encourage others to do so. Narrow-minded is to have an unstructered and unsupported viewpoint that you stick to whilst ignoring any evidence that does not support that, broad-minded is to look at as many viewpoints as possible. Your judgement of Ali being greater than, Phelps, Hoy, Zatopek, Blankers-Cohen, Pietri, Redgrave, Owens, etc is 'Fighter of the Year'!

Another contender should be Jim Thorpe, native-American who won the pentathlon and decathlon by embarrassing margins in Stockholm 1912. He sufferedheavily from racial prejudice and had his medals taken away when it was discovered he had played minor league baseball for money and was judged to be professional (even though this was common among American athletes of the time).

[Glyn_Wigley]

I'll chuck in Al Oerter.

[mjdgreg]

Translates as 'I was talking out of my arse as usual, and can't back up what I say'.

Unbelievable. Never in the history of this forum has there been a poster such as myself that backs up everything he says. Fact.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Translates as 'I was talking out of my arse as usual, and can't back up what I say'.

Unbelievable. Never in the history of this forum has there been a poster such as myself that backs up everything he says. Fact.

You didn't answer my question. Fact.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Unbelievable. Never in the history of this forum has there been a poster such as myself that plagiarises everything he says. Fact.

What's Peter Schiff's take on this question Mick?

[MachoMadness]

Translates as 'I was talking out of my arse as usual, and can't back up what I say'.

Unbelievable. Never in the history of this forum has there been a poster such as myself that backs up everything he says. Fact.

That's a big claim, can you back it up?