Is Michael Phelps the greatest Olympian of all time?

[mjdgreg]

You didn't answer my question. Fact.

Sometimes questions are beneath contempt and indicate that the poster doesn't know his subject matter very well or is just trying to be argumentative for the sake of it. IMO you fall into both categories. However I am going to humour you (just a little bit).

Now back to the question of who is the greatest Olympian of all time. To be an Olympian you just have to compete at the Olympics. IMO how you fare at the Olympics is just one small part of what makes you the greatest Olympian. What you do with the rest of your life adds to your Olympic achievements. Given the extremely rich tapestry of Ali's life there is no question that he is the greatest  Olympian that there has ever been.

One of his achievements was to to become the first and only three-time lineal World Heavyweight Champion. He was crowned Sportsman of the Century by Sports Illustrated and he was also voted Sports Personality of the Century by the BBC.

He was also active in politics (a bit like me) and refused to be conscripted into the U.S. military. This was based on his religious beliefs and opposition to the Vietnam War. He stated, I ain't got no quarrel with them Viet Cong... No Viet Cong ever called me nigger'. This was one of the more telling remarks of the era.

Widespread protests against the Vietnam War had not yet begun, but with that one phrase, Ali articulated the reason to oppose the war for a generation of young Americans. His words served as a touchstone for the racial and antiwar upheavals that would rock the 1960s.

Ali's example inspired Martin Luther King, Jr. who had been reluctant to alienate the Johnson Administration and its support of the civil rights agenda and gave him the courage to voice his own opposition to the war for the first time.

Ali's 3 fights with rival Joe Frazier are considered to be the greatest in boxing history. Ali brought beauty and grace to boxing and through the wonderful excesses of skill and character he became the most famous athlete in the world.

He was also the best exponent of pre-match hype, where he would 'trash talk' opponents, often with rhymes. He is the best looking most intelligent boxer there has ever been and to cap it all he is also a great example of how to cope with a debilitating disease. I could go on for many more hours but I'm sure by now you get my drift. No other Olympian even comes close to him. Game set and match.

[mjdgreg]

That's a big claim, can you back it up?

All you have to do is check my posts and you will see what I mean. Every question that gets thrown at me gets answered (unlike my questions that very rarely get answered, BST being the biggest culprit).

[Glyn_Wigley]

You didn't answer my question. Fact.

Sometimes questions are beneath contempt and indicate that the poster doesn't know his subject matter very well or is just trying to be argumentative for the sake of it. IMO you fall into both categories. However I am going to humour you (just a little bit).

Now back to the question of who is the greatest Olympian of all time. To be an Olympian you just have to compete at the Olympics. IMO how you fare at the Olympics is just one small part of what makes you the greatest Olympian. What you do with the rest of your life adds to your Olympic achievements. Given the extremely rich tapestry of Ali's life there is no question that he is the greatest  Olympian that there has ever been.

One of his achievements was to to become the first and only three-time lineal World Heavyweight Champion. He was crowned Sportsman of the Century by Sports Illustrated and he was also voted Sports Personality of the Century by the BBC.

He was also active in politics (a bit like me) and refused to be conscripted into the U.S. military. This was based on his religious beliefs and opposition to the Vietnam War. He stated, I ain't got no quarrel with them Viet Cong... No Viet Cong ever called me nigger'. This was one of the more telling remarks of the era.

Widespread protests against the Vietnam War had not yet begun, but with that one phrase, Ali articulated the reason to oppose the war for a generation of young Americans. His words served as a touchstone for the racial and antiwar upheavals that would rock the 1960s.

Ali's example inspired Martin Luther King, Jr. who had been reluctant to alienate the Johnson Administration and its support of the civil rights agenda and gave him the courage to voice his own opposition to the war for the first time.

Ali's 3 fights with rival Joe Frazier are considered to be the greatest in boxing history. Ali brought beauty and grace to boxing and through the wonderful excesses of skill and character he became the most famous athlete in the world.

He was also the best exponent of pre-match hype, where he would 'trash talk' opponents, often with rhymes. He is the best looking most intelligent boxer there has ever been and to cap it all he is also a great example of how to cope with a debilitating disease. I could go on for many more hours but I'm sure by now you get my drift. No other Olympian even comes close to him. Game set and match.

And the only part of all that blather that has any relevance to the original statement of "What he went on to achieve in the sport of boxing will never ever be surpassed." is gthe reference to being three-time world champion. the rest of it has nothing at all to do with achievement in boxing.

I knew he was three-time world champion before I even asked you as I'm of an age to remember him in his prime, but as he was stripped of the title through politics rather than by being beaten in the ring, those boxers who have been two-time world champions have equalled Ali in the purely boxing sense of the word. I would argue that those who have won at least three world championships in more than one weight category surpass even Ali's record (impressive as it is) :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_boxing_triple_champions

Nice as the rest of the cut and paste from Wikipedia is (oops, old habits dying hard, eh Mick?), it's completely irrelevant as nothing about it relates to his achievements in the sport of boxing. Game, set and ripped off catchphrase.

[mjdgreg]

I knew he was three-time world champion before I even asked you as I'm of an age to remember him in his prime, but as he was stripped of the title through politics rather than by being beaten in the ring, those boxers who have been two-time world champions have equalled Ali in the purely boxing sense of the word.

Don't be surprised if you find yourself in a minority of one on that point of view.

[Glyn_Wigley]

I knew he was three-time world champion before I even asked you as I'm of an age to remember him in his prime, but as he was stripped of the title through politics rather than by being beaten in the ring, those boxers who have been two-time world champions have equalled Ali in the purely boxing sense of the word.

Don't be surprised if you find yourself in a minority of one on that point of view.

Any particular reason you didn't highlight the whole of that sentence or are you only really interested in cheap shots out of context?

EDIT: Why am even bothering to I ask? Everybody knows that's all you're interested in.

[mjdgreg]

And the only part of all that informed comment that has any relevance to the original statement of "What he went on to achieve in the sport of boxing will never ever be surpassed." is gthe reference to being three-time world champion. the rest of it has nothing at all to do with achievement in boxing.

He was crowned Sportsman of the Century by Sports Illustrated and he was also voted Sports Personality of the Century by the BBC.

Ali's 3 fights with rival Joe Frazier are considered to be the greatest in boxing history.

Ali brought beauty and grace to boxing and through the wonderful excesses of skill and character he became the most famous athlete in the world.He was also the best exponent of pre-match hype, where he would 'trash talk' opponents, often with rhymes.

Are you saying these achievements have nothing to do with what he achieved in boxing. Are you saying his political influence had nothing to do with his boxing achievements? Unbelievable.

[mjdgreg]

Any particular reason you didn't highlight the whole of that sentence or are you only really interested in cheap shots out of context?

How can you say it was out of context when I printed the whole of your waffle. Unbelievable.

[Glyn_Wigley]

And the only part of all that informed comment that has any relevance to the original statement of "What he went on to achieve in the sport of boxing will never ever be surpassed." is gthe reference to being three-time world champion. the rest of it has nothing at all to do with achievement in boxing.

He was crowned Sportsman of the Century by Sports Illustrated and he was also voted Sports Personality of the Century by the BBC.

Ali's 3 fights with rival Joe Frazier are considered to be the greatest in boxing history.

Ali brought beauty and grace to boxing and through the wonderful excesses of skill and character he became the most famous athlete in the world.He was also the best exponent of pre-match hype, where he would 'trash talk' opponents, often with rhymes.

Are you saying these achievements have nothing to do with what he achieved in boxing. Unbelievable.

If you'd just like to point out which of those are achievments in the ring I'd agree with you.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Any particular reason you didn't highlight the whole of that sentence or are you only really interested in cheap shots out of context?

How can you say it was out of context when I printed the whole of your waffle. Unbelievable.

You didn't embolden the whole of the sentence, meaning that you were replying to that single clause, not the whole sentence. You didn't know that? Unbelievable.

[wilts rover]

Love it. Cassius Clay is the greatest Olympian because he became a Muslim and is a leftie, pinkie loving communist who let his country down. And he is Gordon Brown's favourite boxer!

[Glyn_Wigley]

And to me he's not even the greatest Olympic boxer, as far as I'm concerned that'd have to be Teophilo Stevenson.

[mjdgreg]

He was crowned Sportsman of the Century by Sports Illustrated and he was also voted Sports Personality of the Century by the BBC.

Ali's 3 fights with rival Joe Frazier are considered to be the greatest in boxing history.

Ali brought beauty and grace to boxing and through the wonderful excesses of skill and character he became the most famous athlete in the world.He was also the best exponent of pre-match hype, where he would 'trash talk' opponents, often with rhymes.

Are you saying these achievements have nothing to do with what he achieved in boxing. Unbelievable.

If you'd just like to point out which of those are achievments in the ring I'd agree with you.

I've highlighted one phrase that I am sorry you didn't understand the first time around. Thank you for now agreeing with me. It makes a change for someone to admit they were wrong.

[mjdgreg]

Love it. Cassius Clay is the greatest Olympian because he became a Muslim and is a leftie, pinkie loving communist who let his country down. And he is Gordon Brown's favourite boxer!

You really do yourself no favours with a comment like that. You make yourself look incredibly stupid. I'd delete it if I were you before anyone else sees it. At least Gordon got that one right.

[wilts rover]

Love it. Cassius Clay is the greatest Olympian because he became a Muslim and is a leftie, pinkie loving communist who let his country down. And he is Gordon Brown's favourite boxer!

You really do yourself no favours with a comment like that. You make yourself look incredibly stupid. I'd delete it if I were you before anyone else sees it. At least Gordon got that one right.

Why, its not my opinion, its your 'facts' put in plain language. Who would have thought you were really a commie-lover. Made my evening that has.

[mjdgreg]

Why, its not my opinion, its your 'facts' put in plain language. Who would have thought you were really a commie-lover. Made my evening that has.

It is very rare for me to be lost for words but on this occasion I am (please don't be stupid enough to take this as a compliment).

[Glyn_Wigley]

He was crowned Sportsman of the Century by Sports Illustrated and he was also voted Sports Personality of the Century by the BBC.

Ali's 3 fights with rival Joe Frazier are considered to be the greatest in boxing history.

Ali brought beauty and grace to boxing and through the wonderful excesses of skill and character he became the most famous athlete in the world.He was also the best exponent of pre-match hype, where he would 'trash talk' opponents, often with rhymes.

Are you saying these achievements have nothing to do with what he achieved in boxing. Unbelievable.

If you'd just like to point out which of those are achievments in the ring I'd agree with you.

I've highlighted one phrase that I am sorry you didn't understand the first time around. Thank you for now agreeing with me. It makes a change for someone to admit they were wrong.

Being 'considered' something isn't an achievement in boxing. Winning is. Unbelievable.

[mjdgreg]

Being 'considered' something isn't an achievement in boxing. Winning is.

Some people just can't stop digging themselves into a hole. If you think partaking in the best 3 fights in boxing history isn't an achievement then there is no hope for you. Winning is not the be all and end all, but even there you shoot yourself in the foot.  Who won 2 out of the 3 and only lost the first one due to having had to endure a prolonged ban from the ring? I'll tell you - Ali. Truly unbelievable.

[Glyn_Wigley]

If you think partaking in the best 3 fights in boxing history isn't an achievement then there is no hope for you. Winning is not the be all and end all, but even there you shoot yourself in the foot.

In that case Joe Frazier achieved, by your very own words. just as much as Ali. He partook in those fights, and whether he won them is not the be all and end all. Game, set and match.

And just because somebody 'thinks' they are the greatest fights of all time doesn't make them that anyway, so it's still not a definable achievement and completely irrelevant to your original assertion.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Some people just can't stop digging themselves into a hole...only lost the first one due to having had to endure a prolonged ban from the ring? I'll tell you - Ali. Truly unbelievable.

Better put that spade down then. Ali had two fights in the six months before the first fight with Frazier, and he won both of them.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Mick. You are frequently lost for words. Your solution is to Google something, then copy and paste it and pass it off as your own thoughts. Laughable really.

[mjdgreg]

In that case Joe Frazier achieved, by your very own words. just as much as Ali. He partook in those fights, and whether he won them is not the be all and end all. Game, set and match.

And just because somebody 'thinks' they are the greatest fights of all time doesn't make them that anyway, so it's still not a definable achievement and completely irrelevant to your original assertion.

You are starting to sound more and more confused with each post. Ali achieved more than Frazier - he won 2 out of 3. As for your next comment, you also have me lost for words with your incomprehensible twaddle.

[mjdgreg]

Better put that spade down then. Ali had two fights in the six months before the first fight with Frazier, and he won both of them.

It is a mark of the man that after 4 years out of the ring he had only 2 warm-up fights before going in at the deep end against Frazier. So please put that spade away now.

[Glyn_Wigley]

In that case Joe Frazier achieved, by your very own words. just as much as Ali. He partook in those fights, and whether he won them is not the be all and end all. Game, set and match.

And just because somebody 'thinks' they are the greatest fights of all time doesn't make them that anyway, so it's still not a definable achievement and completely irrelevant to your original assertion.

You are starting to sound more and more confused with each post. Ali achieved more than Frazier - he won 2 out of 3. As for your next comment, you also have me lost for words with your incomprehensible twaddle.

Sorry, I thought incomprehensible twaddle was how you communicated.

[mjdgreg]

mjdgreg. You are frequently lost for words. Your solution is to Google something, then copy and paste it and pass it off as your own thoughts. Laughable really.

You seem to be jealous of my photographic memory and that my views are held by many other respected pundits. Your views however are easily exposed as the ramblings of a leftie loonie with no credence behind them whatsoever. pmsl.

[Glyn_Wigley]

mjdgreg. You are frequently lost for words. Your solution is to Google something, then copy and paste it and pass it off as your own thoughts. Laughable really.

You seem to be jealous of my photographic memory and that my views are held by many other respected pundits. Your views however are easily exposed as the ramblings of a leftie loonie with no credence behind them whatsoever. pmsl.

Whereas you, for some inexplicable reason, seem to hold on to the fantasy that anybody here gives a flying fart what you think about anything. PMSL. Unbelievable.

[mjdgreg]

Sorry, I thought incomprehensible twaddle was how you communicated.

Apology accepted. That's where you've been going wrong. It's you that is guilty of  incomprehensible twaddle.

[mjdgreg]

Whereas you, for some inexplicable reason, seem to hold on to the fantasy that anybody here gives a flying fart what you think about anything. PMSL. Unbelievable.

I refer you to the Bob Diamond thread with over 2300 views. I have also instigated other threads that go over the 1000 mark. Have you ever instigated a thread that has had over 100 views? pmsl.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Sorry, I thought incomprehensible twaddle was how you communicated.

Apology accepted. That's where you've been going wrong. It's you that is guilty of  incomprehensible twaddle.

Just trying to join in at your level.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Whereas you, for some inexplicable reason, seem to hold on to the fantasy that anybody here gives a flying fart what you think about anything. PMSL. Unbelievable.

I refer you to the Bob Diamond thread with over 2300 views. I have also instigated other threads that go over the 1000 mark. Have you ever instigated a thread that has had over 100 views? pmsl.

Again, you seem to think anyone cares. And is that pathetic statistic your idea of a measure of 'success'? PMSL.

[wilts rover]

You didn't answer my question. Fact.

Sometimes questions are beneath contempt and indicate that the poster doesn't know his subject matter very well or is just trying to be argumentative for the sake of it. IMO you fall into both categories. However I am going to humour you (just a little bit).

Now back to the question of who is the greatest Olympian of all time. To be an Olympian you just have to compete at the Olympics. IMO how you fare at the Olympics is just one small part of what makes you the greatest Olympian. What you do with the rest of your life adds to your Olympic achievements. Given the extremely rich tapestry of Ali's life there is no question that he is the greatest  Olympian that there has ever been.

One of his achievements was to to become the first and only three-time lineal World Heavyweight Champion. He was crowned Sportsman of the Century by Sports Illustrated and he was also voted Sports Personality of the Century by the BBC.

He was also active in politics (a bit like me) and refused to be conscripted into the U.S. military. This was based on his religious beliefs and opposition to the Vietnam War. He stated, I ain't got no quarrel with them Viet Cong... No Viet Cong ever called me nigger'. This was one of the more telling remarks of the era.

Widespread protests against the Vietnam War had not yet begun, but with that one phrase, Ali articulated the reason to oppose the war for a generation of young Americans. His words served as a touchstone for the racial and antiwar upheavals that would rock the 1960s.

Ali's example inspired Martin Luther King, Jr. who had been reluctant to alienate the Johnson Administration and its support of the civil rights agenda and gave him the courage to voice his own opposition to the war for the first time.

To go back to your previous Wikipedia post. As you feel Ali greatness lies in his refusal to be drafted (for which his punishment was having his boxing licence taken away), which Olympic medallist (captain of his country's team) was a pacifist & conscientious objector in WWI (for which the punishment could be a firing squad), serving instead in the Ambulance Corps from 1914-18? He was also heavily involved in deciding government policy on the home front during WWII.

The author of several books on pacifism and disarmament, he relaxed that view with the rise of fascism which he saw as a greater danger, he was also a supporter of educational development and policy for the greater benefit of all.

Despite holding several home ministerial positions his greatest achievements were his involvement in the creation of both the League of Nations and the United Nations - for which he was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. He ended his political career as president of the UNESCO council of sport.

Plenty of clues in there, shouldn't take you long to find him on google - and educate yourself.