Shame on you Ed Milliband.......

[Glyn_Wigley]

How many times do I have to remind you about my photographic memory?

What photographic memory? Surely someone with such a fantastic memory as yourself would have remembered this in your favourite newspaper LAST YEAR:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1384726/Ed-Milibands-regret-link-Maggie-grave-man.html

As Mick's so keen to get back on-topic, perhaps he can comment on this that he seems to have overlooked...

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Once again I find myself asking what is Millband's alternative to anything, he doesn't seem to have much substance in any of his policies?

His only policy seems to be to say the opposite of whatever the coalition say. Only thick people will fall for that one.

Hence the exact same reason why so many thick people voted for Cameron.

Cameron in fairness has done exactly what he said he was going to on the whole...

[mjdgreg]

As mjdgreg's so keen to get back on-topic, perhaps he can comment on this that he seems to have overlooked...

I would say that Red Ed showed a serious lack of judgement posing for this photograph. No doubt he talked to the wearer of the T shirt and spent quite a bit of time with him. How he can claim not to have seen what was on the T shirt is unbelievable. What about his people? Surely one of them would have seen the impending PR disaster.

He has further compounded this error by not pursuing the matter further and by not using his influence to get the T shirts banned. Surely one of his people will have been aware of what was going on at the TUC and got it stopped. Then again he probably doesn't want to upset his backers and secretly holds the views expressed on the T shirt. How anyone could vote for this plank amazes me. He is an embarrassment to Doncaster.

[mjdgreg]

Cameron in fairness has done exactly what he said he was going to on the whole...

Agreed. He had an impossible job trying to clear up Labour's mess.

[jucyberry]

I really don't see the fuss tbh, it's a tshirt, those who are of a mind will buy one, ones who aren't won't.

If only we lived in a world where the most important thing for our ministers to stop was a slogan on a garment.
Throughout history peope have sold perhaps inappropriate souviners, mini guillotines and hangmans nooses for example. the world didn't end because of it did it?

[Filo]

Cameron in fairness has done exactly what he said he was going to on the whole...

Agreed. He had an impossible job trying to clear up Labour's mess.

We`re drifting again Mick, no mention of the T shirt in that post!

[mjdgreg]

We`re drifting again Mick, no mention of the T shirt in that post!

I'm doing my best but the other posters are doing they're best to get the thread locked!

[mjdgreg]

I really don't see the fuss tbh, it's a tshirt, those who are of a mind will buy one, ones who aren't won't.

If only we lived in a world where the most important thing for our ministers to stop was a slogan on a garment.
Throughout history peope have sold perhaps inappropriate souviners, mini guillotines and hangmans nooses for example. the world didn't end because of it did it?

To be honest it doesn't bother me in the slightest. I find it very funny that he got so spectacularly caught out in our politically correct world. I just couldn't resist poking fun at him. It was such an easy target. Indeed I would have had more respect for him if he hadn't apologised and said that he agreed with the sentiments expressed. Judging by what most of the posters on here seem to think he would have made himself more popular.

However just imagine the furore there would have been if Dave Cameron had been caught out in such a situation. What if he was photographed with someone with a T shirt that said the same thing about Gordon Brown? I'm pretty sure Ed would have been all over it like a rash, whereas Dave never said anything about the Milliband incident. Food for thought.

[BobG]

For those who disagree with my planned action come the glorious day, although you can deal with it as you will, so can I. And I am old enough to remember the violence, the misery, the feather nesting, the injustice, the scandals, the mysterious, and convenient, 'disappearance' of the logbook from HMS Conqueror,  the growth of her bank account from not much at all to millionairedom, the sheer bloody awfulness of what that woman encouraged and did. I saw the coppers at Rosso pit kick start a riot (literally) and then blame the miners in the full knowledge that they would get away with it. I saw the coppers at Markham Main charge through private houses arresting anybody they could find - including retired schoolteachers, I saw the eye in sky f*** up its number plate recognition that resulted in a Plant worker (father of a mate of mine) spending a whole sodding day in the cells. I am going to celebrate. I celebrated when Pol Pot popped his clogs. I would have celebrated when Hitler did likewise. I celebrated when Pinochet went tits up. I'm going to celebrate when this odious and evil cow does likewise.

BobG

[Filo]

For those who disagree with my planned action come the glorious day, although you can deal with it as you will, so can I. And I am old enough to remember the violence, the misery, the feather nesting, the injustice, the scandals, the mysterious, and convenient, 'disappearance' of the logbook from HMS Conqueror,  the growth of her bank account from not much at all to millionairedom, the sheer bloody awfulness of what that woman encouraged and did. I saw the coppers at Rosso pit kick start a riot (literally) and then blame the miners in the full knowledge that they would get away with it. I saw the coppers at Markham Main charge through private houses arresting anybody they could find - including retired schoolteachers, I saw the eye in sky f*** up its number plate recognition that resulted in a Plant worker (father of a mate of mine) spending a whole sodding day in the cells. I am going to celebrate. I celebrated when Pol Pot popped his clogs. I would have celebrated when Hitler did likewise. I celebrated when Pinochet went tits up. I'm going to celebrate when this odious and evil cow does likewise.

BobG

Like you Bob, living in a pit village I saw first hand what Maggies Militia did, I saw a miner get beat to a pulp, suffered brain damage and got jailed for it because the Police stitched him up, I saw Police vans patroling the streets of Stainforth with the back doors open and coppers in full riot gear ready to jump out and arrest people for no reason, marshal law ruled in the villages around Doncaster, I saw Metropolitan Police officers waving their pay slips in the faces of striking miners, I saw them breaking the doors of peoples houses down, people that did n`t even work at the pit, Thatchers name sits comfortably beside those other dictators you mention Bob. People that were n`t around at that time or did n`t witness scenes like that have no idea what it was like at all. People died digging for coal on the pit tips to keep their families warm, all because Thatcher had an agenda to break the working class!



On the subject of HMS Conqueror this link demonstrates what Thatchers Government were capable of, lies and deceit!

http://belgranoinquiry.com/article-archive/seven-lies 

[jucyberry]

I truly hope that the Hillsborough report does something else, I hope that it enables a new enquiry about the conduct of 'maggies finest' and the way they conducted themselves during the Miners strike. thugs given free license to beat, bully and ruin the lives of ordinary men trying to feed their families all in the guise of law keepers.

I saw it mentioned on Look North last night. let's hope it happens.

[jonrover]

and anyone else that thinks it's acceptable to rejoice in Maggie's death. It's only the economically illiterate that would hold that view:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/4533645/Fury-at-union-party-packs-if-Margaret-Thatcher-dies.html#ixzz26EvNdIMN

Well, shame on me then, I've had a bottle of bubbly in the fridge 10 years waiting for the big day.

For this government I think it might be appropriate to save up for a magnum and I don't mean of the iced chocolate variety either. Evil bas**rds the lot of em with one mission...to destroy the welfare state and privatise everything. Shame on them too.

[jonrover]

Then check. I did it in less than three minutes. So can you.

Continual plagiarising of copyrighted material could see your posting rights suspended.

Look, I'm too busy running all my successful businesses to waste time checking everything that comes out of my brain. At the moment I'm trying to expand the empire by setting up my wife as a Betterware agent so I really don't have time to waste trawling the internet just to see if my photographic memory has kicked in again. If you think I'm plagiarising then it's up to you what you want to do about it. Maybe you have finally found the excuse you've been looking for to ban me.

This is the funniest thing I read this year...successful comedian too! 

[Bentley Bullet]

What I find ironic is the way people wish death upon her, yet the same people on this forum were picking fault that Osama Bin Laden was "murdered".

Ah, but it's much safer to condemn her publicly because there's no fear of Maggie's fans carrying out  the types of repercussions that are produced by Bin Laden's fans!

And even fewer worries of retaliation from Jade Goody fans (remember those on here celebrating her death?)

[hoolahoop]

Once again I find myself asking what is Millband's alternative to anything, he doesn't seem to have much substance in any of his policies?

His only policy seems to be to say the opposite of whatever the coalition say. Only thick people will fall for that one.

Hence the exact same reason why so many thick people voted for Cameron.

And of course in fairness why so many thick folk voted for Labour too, you would have us under some Marxist/Leninist dictatorship permanently given some of your views on here lately. Perhaps N.Korea might be your niche Glyn but what worries me most is you NEVER show any indication of looking at things in a balanced way.
How long is this forum going to remain as an outlet for the Socialist Workers Party ?

[Glyn_Wigley]

Once again I find myself asking what is Millband's alternative to anything, he doesn't seem to have much substance in any of his policies?

His only policy seems to be to say the opposite of whatever the coalition say. Only thick people will fall for that one.

Hence the exact same reason why so many thick people voted for Cameron.

And of course in fairness why so many thick folk voted for Labour too, you would have us under some Marxist/Leninist dictatorship permanently given some of your views on here lately. Perhaps N.Korea might be your niche Glyn but what worries me most is you NEVER show any indication of looking at things in a balanced way.
How long is this forum going to remain as an outlet for the Socialist Workers Party ?

ALL parties in opposition just contradict the government, whoever they are, That's what Cameron did, and that was wehy he got elected without any firm policies put before the people. He wouldn't even tell the truth about VAT when it was blindingly obvious they were going to put it up. They're all the same. That balanced enough for you?

[hoolahoop]

B

Once again I find myself asking what is Millband's alternative to anything, he doesn't seem to have much substance in any of his policies?

His only policy seems to be to say the opposite of whatever the coalition say. Only thick people will fall for that one.

Hence the exact same reason why so many thick people voted for Cameron.

And of course in fairness why so many thick folk voted for Labour too, you would have us under some Marxist/Leninist dictatorship permanently given some of your views on here lately. Perhaps N.Korea might be your niche Glyn but what worries me most is you NEVER show any indication of looking at things in a balanced way.
How long is this forum going to remain as an outlet for the Socialist Workers Party ?

ALL parties in opposition just contradict the government, whoever they are, That's what Cameron did, and that was wehy he got elected without any firm policies put before the people. He wouldn't even tell the truth about VAT when it was blindingly obvious they were going to put it up. They're all the same. That balanced enough for you?

Better................lol there's no changing you is there!

[mjdgreg]

And of course in fairness why so many thick folk voted for Labour too, you would have us under some Marxist/Leninist dictatorship permanently given some of your views on here lately. Perhaps N.Korea might be your niche Glyn but what worries me most is you NEVER show any indication of looking at things in a balanced way.
How long is this forum going to remain as an outlet for the Socialist Workers Party ?

I agree, he has a very one-sided view of things. I on the other hand, always take the views of others into account before deciding I was right all along.

[mjdgreg]

Having read the views of others on Maggie, it would seem that some people have understandable animosity towards her. I would like to apologise to those who I offended and retract my statement that only the economically illiterate would wish bad things to happen to her. I did say she did get some things wrong, in particular the way the miner's strike was handled was not something she should be proud of.

I also do not want to appear too sanctimonious about wishing people dead. I have previously stated that I would quite happily execute Gordon Brown. I hold him in the same contempt that others hold Maggie. In my view he has ruined this country's finances for decades and my children and their children will have to bear most of the consequences.

[JayBaker]

Firstly, I'd be dubious of any report from Murdoch's "The Sun" which is, as one academic I interviewed succinctly put it, "public relations, propaganda, pornography, and sport on the back pages...and the only part of the paper that could be argued to be journalism is the sports." (Edit: note that the unions booed Ed Balls, and the image The Sun used as juxtaposition was actually about a year old and Ed Miliband even apologised for not spotting the kid's shirt...so congratulations to Murdoch for attacking a politician who dared to challenge his greedy monopoly of our sports and media)

Not forgetting the fact that this is the same paper that demonised the northern industrial areas such as, let's see, Doncaster, for years and our friends over in Liverpool by demonising their fans during the aftermath of Hillsborough, disseminated lying justification for an illegal war that put our troops in unnecessary danger, and supported the most right-wing government in Britain since the Second World War.

Now, as for Thatcher, as a Donny lad, it's natural for me to loathe an individual who decimated entire communities simply because their industries dared to be unionised, deregulated the financial sector which led to the current crisis we're in, supported General Pinochet who was a CIA-installed dictator after the removal of a democratically-elected leader in Chile following the deaths of 3000 people on September 11th, 1973 (and 60,000 more were imprisoned, tortured, or exterminated), alongside creating a culture of "the individual, not society," where citizens were replaced by consumers and Britain became about keeping up with the Joneses and "up yours, Jack, I'm alreet."

That said, I can't separate my Donny roots from my disdain for Thatcher. It's part of our identity, our integrity, our heritage.

As someone else suggested, if you're going to celebrate the deaths of Osama bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, or Gaddafi, considering how few British citizens these people actually harmed, then you sure as heck can't criticise anyone for celebrating the withering away of Thatcher.

As for Miliband himself, if you doubt Labour, then be my guest and have another several years of right-wing, rich-get-richer policies where the north gets shafted while the south is fine, and watch towns like Doncaster get browbeaten even more. 

[Sprotyrover]

The one thing I hate her for is the way she 'shafted' the region unmercilessly after the miners strike.

a bit like William the Conqueror only far worse because she 'shafted' her own people.

[belton rover]

She was a superb leader.

Love or loathe her, her policies, her personal views, or her hand bag; she led the country magnificantly.

What have we had since?

The amount of intellectual, seemingly level headed people on here who (literally) have champagne on ice and their dancing shoes polished is extremely disturbing.

[BobG]

Ah... There could be a reason for that Belton. Think about it. The answer lies in full view right in your comment

Cheers

BobG

[mjdgreg]

Firstly, I'd be dubious of any report from Murdoch's "The Sun" which is, as one academic I interviewed succinctly put it, "public relations, propaganda, pornography, and sport on the back pages...and the only part of the paper that could be argued to be journalism is the sports." (Edit: note that the unions booed Ed Balls, and the image The Sun used as juxtaposition was actually about a year old and Ed Miliband even apologised for not spotting the kid's shirt...so congratulations to Murdoch for attacking a politician who dared to challenge his greedy monopoly of our sports and media)

Not forgetting the fact that this is the same paper that demonised the northern industrial areas such as, let's see, Doncaster, for years and our friends over in Liverpool by demonising their fans during the aftermath of Hillsborough, disseminated lying justification for an illegal war that put our troops in unnecessary danger, and supported the most right-wing government in Britain since the Second World War.

Now, as for Thatcher, as a Donny lad, it's natural for me to loathe an individual who decimated entire communities simply because their industries dared to be unionised, deregulated the financial sector which led to the current crisis we're in, supported General Pinochet who was a CIA-installed dictator after the removal of a democratically-elected leader in Chile following the deaths of 3000 people on September 11th, 1973 (and 60,000 more were imprisoned, tortured, or exterminated), alongside creating a culture of "the individual, not society," where citizens were replaced by consumers and Britain became about keeping up with the Joneses and "up yours, Jack, I'm alreet."

That said, I can't separate my Donny roots from my disdain for Thatcher. It's part of our identity, our integrity, our heritage.

As someone else suggested, if you're going to celebrate the deaths of Osama bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, or Gaddafi, considering how few British citizens these people actually harmed, then you sure as heck can't criticise anyone for celebrating the withering away of Thatcher.

As for Miliband himself, if you doubt Labour, then be my guest and have another several years of right-wing, rich-get-richer policies where the north gets shafted while the south is fine, and watch towns like Doncaster get browbeaten even more.

Fair play Jaybaker, you make a good argument. We need more people like you on the forum. Whilst I might not agree with your views, you do argue your point of view in a thought provoking manner. However your last paragraph let you down very badly. Up until this point you seemed very reasoned but you totally lost the plot in your last paragraph.

Take a tip from me and make sure that what you argue can be thought through until the end. Your very left wing views were held in abeyance until that last paragraph which lost you all credibility. Shame.

[mjdgreg]

She was a superb leader.

Love or loathe her, her policies, her personal views, or her hand bag; she led the country magnificantly

.

I agree. She had her faults, but at least she was a conviction politician. At least you knew where you stood with her.

[belton rover]

Ah... There could be a reason for that Belton. Think about it. The answer lies in full view right in your comment

Cheers

BobG

Thanks, Bob. I hadn't thought about it, but I think I understand now.

It's the hand bag, isn't it?

[hoolahoop]

Ah... There could be a reason for that Belton. Think about it. The answer lies in full view right in your comment

Cheers

BobG

Thanks, Bob. I hadn't thought about it, but I think I understand now.

It's the hand bag, isn't it?

Why was it the wrong colour ? Incidentally there never was a full vote taking the Miner's out on strike was there, democracy in action eh.
An earlier poster talked about the money that Thatcher amassed could the same not be said about dear old Arfa and some of his minions too!
The way the miners were treated by the SYP was truly disgusting and I can't ever excuse it anymore than the way some of those striking miners dealt with the so-called scabs who also exercised their democratic rights. That's called balance , like it or not, there were many on both sides that both abused their authority and took the law into their own hands by bullying and cajoling both each other and the general public whilst in some cases 'feathering it's own nests'.
Like any war that have strong protagonists there have to be losers ; would any of you truly want the Donny of those days back in exchange to the forward thinking great town that we live in now........I sincerely hope not!
Please some of you don't raise the miners strike to the level of some great crusade ; quite simply that has and was never the case but I doubt many on here would ever look at it that way. It's far more convenient for some on here to pick and choose the facts that they are comfortable with to fit in with their idealogy. I wonder how many of them actually did well out of the Thatcher era......most no doubt. A chance to own their own homes, to feel they had decent and equal rights in society and to have careers that didn't involve a future potential death sentence of 'white finger' and more importantly pneumoconiosis and associated lung diseases.

[belton rover]

Ah... There could be a reason for that Belton. Think about it. The answer lies in full view right in your comment

Cheers

BobG

Thanks, Bob. I hadn't thought about it, but I think I understand now.

It's the hand bag, isn't it?

Why was it the wrong colour ? Incidentally there never was a full vote taking the Miner's out on strike was there, democracy in action eh.
An earlier poster talked about the money that Thatcher amassed could the same not be said about dear old Arfa and some of his minions too!
The way the miners were treated by the SYP was truly disgusting and I can't ever excuse it anymore than the way some of those striking miners dealt with the so-called scabs who also exercised their democratic rights. That's called balance , like it or not, there were many on both sides that both abused their authority and took the law into their own hands by bullying and cajoling both each other and the general public whilst in some cases 'feathering it's own nests'.
Like any war that have strong protagonists there have to be losers ; would any of you truly want the Donny of those days back in exchange to the forward thinking great town that we live in now........I sincerely hope not!
Please some of you don't raise the miners strike to the level of some great crusade ; quite simply that has and was never the case but I doubt many on here would ever look at it that way. It's far more convenient for some on here to pick and choose the facts that they are comfortable with to fit in with their idealogy. I wonder how many of them actually did well out of the Thatcher era......most no doubt. A chance to own their own homes, to feel they had decent and equal rights in society and to have careers that didn't involve a future potential death sentence of 'white finger' and more importantly pneumoconiosis and associated lung diseases.

This kind of sums it up for me, Hoola.

As a thirteen year old, indirectly affected by the strike, I watched on the news two people at war: Scargill and Thatcher.

I asked myself, who would I rather have representing me and my beliefs? A ginger haired, out of touch, two faced Kitson who didn't give a shit about the miners, their families or their future, as long as they were able to wallow in their hardship? Or Thatcher?

[hoolahoop]

Ah... There could be a reason for that Belton. Think about it. The answer lies in full view right in your comment

Cheers

BobG

Thanks, Bob. I hadn't thought about it, but I think I understand now.

It's the hand bag, isn't it?

Why was it the wrong colour ? Incidentally there never was a full vote taking the Miner's out on strike was there, democracy in action eh.
An earlier poster talked about the money that Thatcher amassed could the same not be said about dear old Arfa and some of his minions too!
The way the miners were treated by the SYP was truly disgusting and I can't ever excuse it anymore than the way some of those striking miners dealt with the so-called scabs who also exercised their democratic rights. That's called balance , like it or not, there were many on both sides that both abused their authority and took the law into their own hands by bullying and cajoling both each other and the general public whilst in some cases 'feathering it's own nests'.
Like any war that have strong protagonists there have to be losers ; would any of you truly want the Donny of those days back in exchange to the forward thinking great town that we live in now........I sincerely hope not!
Please some of you don't raise the miners strike to the level of some great crusade ; quite simply that has and was never the case but I doubt many on here would ever look at it that way. It's far more convenient for some on here to pick and choose the facts that they are comfortable with to fit in with their idealogy. I wonder how many of them actually did well out of the Thatcher era......most no doubt. A chance to own their own homes, to feel they had decent and equal rights in society and to have careers that didn't involve a future potential death sentence of 'white finger' and more importantly pneumoconiosis and associated lung diseases.

This kind of sums it up for me, Hoola.

As a thirteen year old, indirectly affected by the strike, I watched on the news two people at war: Scargill and Thatcher.

I asked myself, who would I rather have representing me and my beliefs? A ginger haired, out of touch, two faced c*** who didn't give a shit about the miners, their families or their future, as long as they were able to wallow in their hardship? Or Thatcher?

I agree and had miners in my family, believe me their was an inner circle that got all the strike aid from abroad. There is much that all these 'I love Arthur the t**t'  brigade would choose the youngsters who weren't around at the time to forget............it was no great crusade Bob, Barmby, Glyn, BST et al was it think back !! Btw I didn't care for the way Maggie acted either but contrary to any warped supposed 'facts' that some on here choose to select.......life did get better for most. Not all but most.

[BobG]

Perhaps I should also make clear that I did then, and do now, think that Arthur Scargill was not ony tactically worse than inept, but also strategically stupid. He was also a horrible, horrible man. I once went to Sheffield City Hall to see him 'speak'. 'Fight the Cuts' thing it was. I left there plain appalled. He didn't speak. He ranted. He ranted, screamed and made me think that that man deserved no place in any organisation in this country. He was a maniac of major proportions.

Cheers

BobG