Doncaster Shafted by the FA... Again

[Bristol Red Rover]

It would strengthen the argument if fans of other clubs registered their disgust as well

Agreed, thats very important. I wonder what the Manc City fans would say about participating?!

Someone asked what is it that the Belles want? Do they want to be involved with making a point? If so, it may be best to wait and see what they could suggest for the VSC to help them with. It would be good to have a statement covering the specific issue of the Belles but also linking it with a general point about the FA getting away with this that relates to the whole game, mens and womens.

Between us we could then post it on other clubs forums etc.

[RobTheRover]

Below are the four main criteria by which the process was conducted.
 
1)      Financial and business management
2)      Commercial sustainability and marketing
3)      Facilities
4)      Players, support staff and youth development
 

So, nothing to do with (and here are my own 4)...

1) Tradition - one of the founder members of the English womens league and a recognised club (as the Belle Vue Belles) since 1969
2) Performance - finished 7th in the past 2 seasons.  NOT the worst team (Liverpool) who the FA are NOT demoting (probably because they are Liverpool).
3) Development - The FA are demanding that local junior sides have girls teams in order to maintain their Charter Standard.  What message does an arbitrary demotion of one of the biggest names in Women's football send out to these girls playing the game?
4) Parity - would this be tolerated in the Men's game?  Not a chance.  In the modern game, Clubs have always had performance on the pitch as the only barometer of whether they "deserved" to play in a league or not (the only exception was teams being relegated from the old bottom division, yet even this required re-election by their peers, not faceless beaurocrats in the FA).

I like my 4 reasons better than Mr Stanley's.

[albie]

The FA are entitled to set their own criteria for what is essentially a members club, provided that any rules they set (however irrational), are lawful. The Belles need to take legal advice on the decision, and perhaps consider if the FA are supporting a restraint of trade.

On the other hand, did the Belles put in a good application on the basis of the criteria, and have they made their best case?

If the Belles are a seperate company and organisation from Rovers, would it not be best to apply as "Doncaster Sporting", or as DRFC Ladies, to gain from the association.

Part of the reason for bringing sporting interests in Donny under one umbrella was to increase their collective strength as a group. Belles score well on facilities, compared to Prem clubs who play their games at lower league grounds, so the EXCUSE the FA are using is probably organisational, and most likely "financial and business".

If Belles could show that they were a self funding element of the DRFC business plan than Gavin has talked about, then the FA have the rug pulled out from under them. That is probably what the others are up to, the Belles and Lincoln have been left behind.

The FA want a self perpetuating elite, like in the Prem, and can't be bothered by events on the pitch, so come up with a buy-your-way-in scheme for the wealthy. They are beneath contempt.

[PDX_Rover]

Here's my response to their response...

John

Thank you for your reply.

What astounds me is that the FA can apparently give no substantial reason for the demotion of the Belles other than, it would seem, financial. What is also worrying is that players only come in at number four in your list of criteria. 

Manchester City women had an average season and yet are deemed to be worthy of an elite place.  That's like promoting Leeds United, Forest, Wolves, Derby, Sheffield Wednesday etc to the Premier League on the basis of their name and fan base, regardless of their league position.

There's no 'game changer' here…. A real game changer would be, for once, the FA putting the spirit and history of the women's game first, rather than an attempt to create yet another elite group of big name clubs, to the exclusion of the likes of Doncaster.

I assume by the statement that "the adjudication process will remain confidential between the involved parties as the information is sensitive" translates to financial deals being struck.

What would happen if "the likes of Doncaster" gain promotion? Will they be denied promotion as they don;t fit into your 'elite' template?

The whole thing stinks of cronyism, corruption and is, sadly, typical of the beautiful game,

Mark

[PDX_Rover]

Good points Albie.

And Rob, I much prefer your four points. This certainly would NOT be tolerated in the men's game. So are the FA being covertly sexist?

Bunch of w**kers.

[graingrover]

E mail to FA .
 I join a growing groundswell of indignation at your very subjective decision to demote Doncaster Belles in favour of foreign owned Manchester City . Surely overarching rquirements of our governing body must be openness , honesty and ethical and sporting values. Our youngsters in the community of Doncaster as in most football loving communities need to be able to TRUST the VALUES . Please review your decision and please be aware how deeply such decisions wound the game at large in this country . Our children need to believe football is not just for and about highly paid players playing for rich clubs.
                       Brian Grainger.

[Filo]

Dear Mr. Button, 
 
Thank you for contacting the Football Association.
 
The adjudication process will remain confidential between the involved parties as the information is sensitive. Below are the four main criteria by which the process was conducted.
 
1)      Financial and business management
2)      Commercial sustainability and marketing
3)      Facilities
4)      Players, support staff and youth development
 
The future of The FA WSL from 2014 forms a key part of the overall objectives of ‘Game Changer’, The FA’s new five year plan. This also includes the creation of an Elite Performance Unit, growing player participation and a new individual commercial strategy for the women’s game.
 
We do appreciate all of the feedback we receive from supporters. This feedback is collated and used to build a picture of public opinion and is subsequently fed back internally within the organisation. Please rest assured your comments will form part of this feedback process.
 
Best wishes,

John Stanley | Customer Relations
The Football Association
Wembley Stadium, Wembley, London, HA9 0WS
Postal address: Wembley Stadium, PO Box 1966, London, SW1P 9EQ
T 0844 980 8200 (option 3) | F 0844 980 0666 |
www.TheFA.com/Feedback 
 
**If you wish to reply, please click on the link below to go to the contact us form**
http://www.thefa.com/feedback
 
 
 
From: Mark Button [mailto:mark_button67@yahoo.com]
Sent: 13 May 2013 20:25
To: Info
Subject: Shame on you for your treatment of Doncaster Belles
 
The the esteemed gentlemen of the FA,
 
I know money drives everything in football nowadays, but the demotion of Doncaster Belles to the second tier on Women's football in England, so that moneybags Manchester City can take their place, is absolutely disgusting. A team that was one of the pioneers of English women's football and they are relegated by a press release. What happened to league status being on merit? Surely any 'new' clubs should enter the team at the bottom and work their way up on merit? Apparently that doesn't apply any longer – and money talks. As usual. Yet another example of the FA not having the courage of their convictions.
 
The Football Association: Supporting Football since 1863 (as long as the money's right)
 
I expect nothing will happen.
 
Shame on you from top to bottom.
 
Mark Button
Portland, Oregon.
 
 
 
 
 
This communication contains information which is confidential, which may be privileged, and which is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not an intended recipient please note that any distribution, disclosure, use or copying of any part of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error please notify us by return email or by telephone on +44 (0)844 980 8200 and delete this communication and any copies of  it. The FA Group (which for the purpose of this communication means The Football Association Limited and its subsidiary companies including Wembley National Stadium Limited, National Football Centre Limited and FA Learning Limited) does not warrant that this email is free from error, viruses, malware, data-damaging material or other defects, or is compatible with your equipment or fit for any purpose. The FA Group may monitor, intercept and block emails addressed to its users or take any other action in accordance with its email use policy.

Statements or opinions may be expressed in this communication that are personal to the sender and do not necessarily represent the views of The FA Group or any member of it. Unless expressly stated otherwise, no member of The FA Group shall be bound by any contract or obligation purported to be created by this communication.

This communication has originated from the communications system of The FA Group.

The Football Association Limited (Company number 77797),  Wembley National Stadium Limited (Company number 3388437) National Football Centre Limited (Company number 2523346)  and FA Learning Limited (Company number 04249339)  are all registered in England and Wales, with their registered office at Wembley Stadium, Wembley, London HA9 0WS. For The FA Tel: 0844 980 8200. http://www.thefa.com. For Wembley National Stadium Limited Tel: +44(0)844 980 8001 http://www.wembleystadium.com.


So there you have it....

It looks like the reply to the email is a bog standard dismissive reply, here`s my reply from the FA, a word for word copy



Thank you for contacting the Football Association.
 
The adjudication process will remain confidential between the involved parties as the information is sensitive. Below are the four main criteria by which the process was conducted.
 
1)   Financial and business management
2)   Commercial sustainability and marketing
3)   Facilities
4)   Players, support staff and youth development
 
The future of The FA WSL from 2014 forms a key part of the overall objectives of ‘Game Changer’, The FA’s new five year plan. This also includes the creation of an Elite Performance Unit, growing player participation and a new individual commercial strategy for the women’s game.
 
We do appreciate all of the feedback we receive from supporters. This feedback is collated and used to build a picture of public opinion and is subsequently fed back internally within the organisation. Please rest assured your comments will form part of this feedback process.

[RobTheRover]

Lets see if Brian G gets the same response.

[Filo]

Lets see if Brian G gets the same response.

Rob I`ve took the liberty of suggesting your 4 point criteria to them in my response

[RobTheRover]

Cheers Filo.  I doubt Mr Stanley will lose too much sleep tonight.

[graingrover]

response to my above E mail ....
Dear Supporter,

Thank you for contacting The Football Association.

We will endeavour to respond to your query as soon as possible. However, please note that due to the large amounts of queries that we deal with it may take up to 5 working days to be dealt with.


Kind regards,

Customer Relations Team
The FA Group
Wembley Stadium, Wembley, London, HA9 0WS

[Muttley]

I might send them an email pretending to be a filthy rich Arab wanting to start a new women's team in London and playing all their games at Wembley, employing loads of foreign coaches, PR consultants, marketing men, a director of football and a team composed wholly of overpriced, overrated foreign imports. Only condition is that we are placed directly into the Premier League...

That should get the bent, greedy bas**rds salivating!

[graingrover]

I have reiterated the content of my E mail to the FA in a similar e mail to Matthew Hancock , Sports editor of the Observer newspaper ... I added the following final paragraph ,

   
                                Your newspaper and the Guardian have often helped just causes in sport and more importantly , highlighted injustices too. It is very difficult both for the Belles and for Doncaster Rovers to rebel  against their own governing body . We fans are outraged at the decision and by the lack of transparency surrounding the reasons for the decision . Please help .

                                                      Brian Grainger , a Doncastrian football fan .   

[ReadingViking]

My e-mail to the FA
(I hope the Belles don't mind a little creative cutting and pasting from their website's history section.)

From: G Raw
Sent: 14 May 2013 21:33
To: info@thefa.com
Cc: contact@theifo.co.uk
Subject: Doncaster Rovers Belles


Dear Sir/Madam

I would like to report the worst possible case of discrimination ever perpetrated in English football. Namely the demotion of Doncaster Rovers Belles from the top tier of the Women's game after only one game.  This would never have been considered in the men's game and as such is sexist.
Just a brief history lesson for you:
The Doncaster Rovers Belles were originally formed in 1969 as the Belle Vue Belles by young women who were selling draw tickets on the terraces at Doncaster Rovers. They started out by playing local small-sided games but within a short period of time they found themselves venturing outside of Doncaster, where the Belle Vue part of the name had no meaning. In 1971 the club changed their name and became known as the Doncaster Belles!
After Championship success in the regional leagues (12 out of 13 in the Notts League and 2 from 2 in the North East League) in addition to many tournaments and Cup successes the Belles became founder members of the National League in the 1991/92 season - where they completed the League and F.A. Cup double without conceding a game!
In the 17-year history of the National League set-up, Doncaster Belles completed the double once more and in this Championship have finished second four times and third twice.
In 2005 they formalised a partnership link with Doncaster Rovers, which enabled them to play a number of their games at Belle Vue and also to use the excellent training facilities at Cantley Park. 
They worked along side Doncaster Rovers, Doncaster Rugby League Club, Doncaster Athletics Club and Doncaster Council on the development of the new community stadium now used by all four clubs. The new stadium was completed on schedule and within budget in December 2006. This now provides the Belles with a permanent base. They are the only Premier League club to have opportunity’s to play matches in a brand new 15,000-seated community stadium.
In March 2009 they were named as one of the eight members of the inaugural FA Women’s Super League due to start in March 2011. At the time they 'believed the Super League will be the key platform to drive the women’s game forward in England.'
The Super League concept was developed to enable players in this country to earn a good living from the game whilst allowing Super League clubs to develop new revenue streams and support for women’s football.
The Belles for The Community initiative was launched November 2009, becoming Britain’s first social enterprise delivering community, social, health and educational services with female sport as a focal point. This launch was based on extensive research amongst a large number of community organisations and agencies within Doncaster and South Yorkshire and it has certainly raised the profile of the Belles significantly. It has also demonstrated the importance of opening up women’s football to the community and to become more than ‘just a football club.’
In turn maintaining their position as one of the major forces in the glorious game, further claiming that Doncaster Rovers Belles is the home of women’s football.
Unfortunately in one crass ill thought out financially driven decision you the FA have discarded 44 years of history of women's football in this country for the want of creating an elite closed shop of franchises in your new top flight , once again alienating the real football fan. 
Please reconsider this decision and reinstate the Belles to their rightful place at the top of the women's game in this country.

Gavin Raw

[PDX_Rover]

This needs kicking upstairs to Millband, Winterton et al, and the Doncaster council. The more I have through about it, the angrier it makes me.

[Sheepskin Stu]

Angry from Portland writes...

[albie]

A suggestion, based on what PDX writes above.

Copy all correspondence to your MP, with a request that they ask a PQ (parliamentary question) on the issue.

If they do this, Secretary of State for Sport has to reply, so he will put the FA on the spot to provide an answer. Once that is on the public record, the FA are defending against the wind.

People might raise different aspects of the sorry debacle, but for me the important question is why the FA, if they are a body in receipt of public funds, will not explain the detail of the selection process in an open and transparent way.

Not only are the Belles being disadvantaged, but no-one can see the evidence upon which they are being treated so poorly.

[VivaRovers]

Further to the replies above, I exchanged a couple of emails with the Belles' Chairman yesterday and they are putting together an appeal against the decision.

To help give weight to this appeal I'm in the process of setting up an online petition so there is a measurable form of discontent. I'll post a link when it's done.

[keith79]

They should go and see if the can get compo like sheff utd did with west ham

[MiKA]

Maybe our new Mayor could sort it for us, she's sure she can create jobs, stop the closure of public amenities and overturn the so called bedroom tax so overturning this decision would be a doddle!       

[paddy hoops]

Maybe a protest should organised at the Women's FA Cup final. There'd be no better time to get the FA to listen than at one of their flagship events.

COME ON YOU HOOOOOPS!!!! (of either sex)

[RedJ]

Someone said earlier that it was partly down to them wanting filled stands with excited fans or words to that effect so it'd look better on tv.

Think we know what's coming..

[VivaRovers]

That was one of the things I picked out from the FA's document on conditions clubs had to meet, which I put out on twitter. In all honesty, the only thing I can spot which counts against the Belles from the whole document is the Belles' attendances.

So if you want to help and support their cause, the best thing you can do is go to Saturday's game and vote with your feet as it were.

[graingrover]

Here's an E maal I just received .. there is an open invitation t everyone to express their views albeit in the local press only here.

Hi Brian,

I'm a sports reporter and have been covering Doncaster Rovers Belles this season.

I gather you've been trying to get your views out into the national media regarding the ridiculous decision to relegate the Belles. I grew up with the Belles as a player and am absolutely outraged!

I wondered if you could write a letter for us to use in the Doncaster Free Press please?

Also, if others would like to get in touch - pass on my details.

They can also address letters either via email or: Hayley Paterson, Sunny Bar, Doncaster, DN1 1NB.


Let me know what you think.

Hayley Paterson
Senior sport and news reporter
Doncaster Free Press, Selby Times, South Yorkshire Times, Epworth Bells and Goole Courier
01302 347256
Follow me on Twitter @HayleyP_11 and @DonnyFreePress


Johnston Press plc  Registered in Scotland no. SC015382
Registered Office:108 Holyrood Road, Edinburgh, EH8 8AS

[Filo]

Brian, I can`t see an email address on there anywhere

[graingrover]

here you are Filo
haley.paterson@doncastertoday.co.uk