Dave Syers Shirt - So Called Fan Duping Buyers To Make Money

[SkellowRover]

From facebook....

A Teenager called Luke White from Donny who goes to Engage Training & Development is the lowest level of bottom feeding scum i have come accross.

He is a season ticket holder at Doncaster Rovers and when the Rovers played at Brentford on the final day of the season he was lucky enough to get David Syers shirt after the game.

Last week he started posting on Rovers groups on Facebook that it was up for sale on Ebay, i along with other people asked him why would he want to sell such a treasured piece of memorabilia from one of the greatest days in the clubs history, his reply was "i'm giving the proceeds to charity, to bluebell wood". At the time i thought it was strange as there was no mention of this previously on any posts he had made or on the Ebay auction itself, but he vowed to provide proof after the shirt was sold.

I decided to get the word out and even messaged David Syers himself telling him all about how his shirt was up for auction for charity and David along with other people was tweeting telling people to bid in order to raise money for Bluebell Wood.

The shirt sold for an amazing £719 as you can see here: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brentford-V-Doncaster-official-match-worn-t-shirt-David-Syers-/171039919392?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item27d2c60d20

Then out of the blue after the shirt is sold he removes all his comments saying the money was going to charity and somebody that knows him then informs us that it was just a ploy to get more money for himself. So he has fraudulently duped people into bidding for this item by making them think the proceeds were going to charity when infact they were going into his pocket all along!!!

I know somebody has spoken to Paul Goodwin at the Free Press about what has happened and has also tweeted David Syers too but i would like to bring this to attention of John Michael Ryan and also to Claire Elizabeth Ryan who can let her dad know just incase he doesn't see this.

To say i am livid is an understatement as £719 is a lot of money and he would never have got anywhere near that amount without the lies and deceit he fed us!!!

Can anything be done legally regarding this?

[MrFrost]

Firstly, is there any proof that he stated that he was giving the money to charity?

If he has deleted Facebook comments, they are not retrievable, so I doubt little can be done.

[redandwhitearmy]

Disgrace. I know the lad. He goes Donny college,he's 17 now I believe? Or 16 and he lives in balby.
He proceeded to call somebody on Facebook a "Kitson" and warned him to watch his back? Who is this Luke to start giving threats.

Surely the club can put a ban on him from going to games,he deserves it! He previously had a season ticket in the south stand last season and Is a regular on Paul's coaches.

If the club can't take action then surely the police can,it's fraud is it not?

[SkellowRover]

Yes Mr Frost there are a lot of witnesses and somebody got this picture of him replying to David Syers being informed



Surely facebook keep records of deletions for legal reasons?

[MrFrost]

Disgrace. I know the lad. He goes Donny college,he's 17 now I believe? Or 16 and he lives in balby.
He proceeded to call somebody on Facebook a "c***" and warned him to watch his back? Who is this Luke to start giving threats.

Surely the club can put a ban on him from going to games,he deserves it! He previously had a season ticket in the south stand last season and Is a regular on Paul's coaches.

If the club can't take action then surely the police can,it's fraud is it not?

Ban for what though? Selling a shirt on ebay is not a crime.

And like I said, if he has deleted Facebook posts saying he will give the money to charity, then these are gone forever, hence no proof and just hearsay.

Now, we all know he is clearly in the wrong, but without evidence, you cannot action punishments.

[MrFrost]

Yes Mr Frost there are a lot of witnesses and somebody got this picture of him replying to David Syers being informed



Surely facebook keep records of deletions for legal reasons?

Facebook does keep records, however getting Facebook to part with them is near impossible, especially over something which would be trivial to them.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

It won't be gone forever Facebook can retrieve these as can Twitter. Claiming he's done it for charity when he hasn't is illegal.

[redandwhitearmy]

Firstly, is there any proof that he stated that he was giving the money to charity?

If he has deleted Facebook comments, they are not retrievable, so I doubt little can be done.

Yes there is.

Somebody commented
 "I might message Dave to inform him it's going to charity and he may be interested in bidding"

Luke replied "wow the publicity I'd get,please do that"

I have a screenshot of this on my mobile but I'm not sure how I post it onto here?

[MrFrost]

It won't be gone forever Facebook can retrieve these as can Twitter. Claiming he's done it for charity when he hasn't is illegal.

Facebook wouldn't get involved. Not a chance.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

It won't be gone forever Facebook can retrieve these as can Twitter. Claiming he's done it for charity when he hasn't is illegal.

Facebook wouldn't get involved. Not a chance.

In a previous job we got this done. If it's against the law the police can request it.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Does anybody know who won the auction?

[Nudga]

My wife is a nurse at Bluebell wood, i'll let her know and maybe the charity workers there can also pursue this.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Hopefully nobody will need to resort to anything legal if he can be shamed into coughing up. Publicity is the best weapon at the moment.

[FuzzyDuck]

Hopefully nobody will need to resort to anything legal if he can be shamed into coughing up. Publicity is the best weapon at the moment.

Why hopefully nobody has to resort to something legal?  I'm pretty sure if the police get involved, he will get punished and will have to cough the money up too?  Does he not deserve a criminal record for fraud?

[Glyn_Wigley]

Well, it's not easy call him a fraud only one day after the auction ended - certainly no-one in authority will be interested until it's been established that he has no intention of paying the charity. If he pays up, all is as it should be. I think the ball is in his court now.

[SkellowRover]

Someone is speaking to him in private on facebook and trying to make him see sense. He didn't expect to get that much money and thought he would get away with it.

XXXXX:
moral of the story: If your gunna lie about donating to charity why do it. you made a rod for your own back, and like it or not, people will only remember you for the low life lying scumbag you are now perceived to be

Luke White:
im waiting until the money comes into my bank before i decide what i am doing with it .

XXXXX:
in other words, even tho you said its going to charity, chances are its not going to

Luke White:
the person who bidded first, won, simple as that wether you like it or not i couldnt give a f*ck mate so why dont u just f*ck off?

Luke White
no matter what, i am donating to charity whether it is 50pounds or 500pounds i dont know, i didnt think i would get that much, no one at all did, and 720pounds is alot of money, especially for a 16year old

XXXXX:
i know what ya mean, i'm 25 and 720 quid aint bad at all. But if I decided to fund raise for charity tomorrow hoping to raise 100 quid, and end up raising £5,000, the thought pattern shouldn't be hmmm I only meant to raise £100, surly I can't give em all this generous money it'd be it has to go to where it rightfully should be going

Luke White:
i see where your coming from tbh

XXXXX:
see it this way, and this is advice from me to you privately. You have a difficult choice here I respect that, but thats it, at least you have a choice.

You can do the most respectful thing possible and present a cheque to bluebell wood with the backing of the club (article on the website etc) and the DFP and be written about in a glowing light. Who knows, you might be rewarded by the club with a ST, or a fully framed signed shirt, a matchday experience money cant buy who knows? This would get you lots of respect from lots of people and silence the doubters.

Or you can bank the cash, go against what you said you were going to do and (although probs means nowt to you) be disrespected by a hell of alot of Rovers fans, and when people see you at the Keepmoat, or any away games be remembered and pointed at as the lad that lied to make money.

Luke White
yeah good idea ill let u know when the money comes in what i can do

[redandwhitearmy]

Well if he's going to donate it proof is needed.

[TommyC]

My thoughts on it are that its more of a contractual point for the seller and buyer. Nobody else has suffered any financial loss. Even the charity itself hasnt actually lost out as it was never party to the agreement.

If the Buyer feels that the promise of the proceeds of sale going to charity formed part of the contract he made with the Seller then he may have some right of recourse. Nobody else that bid has lost anything and the charity itself is not party to the contract which has been made between buyer and seller so they cant argue a contractual loss either. Only person that has a contractual remedy is the buyer. Possibly Ebay's terms have been breached but highly unlikely they'd want to become involved.

Criminal liability.... unlikely. If for example he'd been fundraising, had asked people to donate and then simply pocketed the cash then it's obtaining money by deception. People have indeed been prosecuted for that before. Where that falls down here is that this issue has arisen in the context of a commercial transaction between a buyer and a seller. He may have said that he intended to donate the proceeds to a particular charity but if asked his response would most likely be that he changed his mind. That in itself is not a criminal act. Buyer has still received what they thought they were buying etc etc. 

Morally reprehensible I agree. I doubt it carries a criminal liabilty though. 

[MartinB]

In the end 720 pounds is not a lot of money to a 16 year old, not in the long term...however donating the money would mean so much to people that really need it.

He will do the right thing in the end.

[Sheepskin Stu]

My thoughts on it are that its more of a contractual point for the seller and buyer. Nobody else has suffered any financial loss. Even the charity itself hasnt actually lost out as it was never party to the agreement.

If the Buyer feels that the promise of the proceeds of sale going to charity formed part of the contract he made with the Seller then he may have some right of recourse. Nobody else that bid has lost anything and the charity itself is not party to the contract which has been made between buyer and seller so they cant argue a contractual loss either. Only person that has a contractual remedy is the buyer. Possibly Ebay's terms have been breached but highly unlikely they'd want to become involved.

Criminal liability.... unlikely. If for example he'd been fundraising, had asked people to donate and then simply pocketed the cash then it's obtaining money by deception. People have indeed been prosecuted for that before. Where that falls down here is that this issue has arisen in the context of a commercial transaction between a buyer and a seller. He may have said that he intended to donate the proceeds to a particular charity but if asked his response would most likely be that he changed his mind. That in itself is not a criminal act. Buyer has still received what they thought they were buying etc etc. 

Morally reprehensible I agree. I doubt it carries a criminal liabilty though. 

I broadly agree with that. The ebay listing never mentioned a charity so it's entirely possible that the buyer never knew about the facebook comments. Trial by social media is not healthy.

[SkellowRover]

My thoughts on it are that its more of a contractual point for the seller and buyer. Nobody else has suffered any financial loss. Even the charity itself hasnt actually lost out as it was never party to the agreement.

If the Buyer feels that the promise of the proceeds of sale going to charity formed part of the contract he made with the Seller then he may have some right of recourse. Nobody else that bid has lost anything and the charity itself is not party to the contract which has been made between buyer and seller so they cant argue a contractual loss either. Only person that has a contractual remedy is the buyer. Possibly Ebay's terms have been breached but highly unlikely they'd want to become involved.

Criminal liability.... unlikely. If for example he'd been fundraising, had asked people to donate and then simply pocketed the cash then it's obtaining money by deception. People have indeed been prosecuted for that before. Where that falls down here is that this issue has arisen in the context of a commercial transaction between a buyer and a seller. He may have said that he intended to donate the proceeds to a particular charity but if asked his response would most likely be that he changed his mind. That in itself is not a criminal act. Buyer has still received what they thought they were buying etc etc. 

Morally reprehensible I agree. I doubt it carries a criminal liabilty though. 

I broadly agree with that. The ebay listing never mentioned a charity so it's entirely possible that the buyer never knew about the facebook comments. Trial by social media is not healthy.

Dave Syers and others were tweeting about it being for charity and i can't see someone paying £720 for a shirt if they didn't to be honest.

[redandwhitearmy]

In the end 720 pounds is not a lot of money to a 16 year old, not in the long term...however donating the money would mean so much to people that really need it.

He will do the right thing in the end.

He won't... Trust me I know what he's like! He has no intentions of doing so!
Don't be fooled

[bobjimwilly]

If the winning bidder were asked if they knew the money was going to charity, and they said no, then I'm not sure much else could be done. It's still all dodgy to me though and I think the kid has been a bit naive and very dishonest in telling people it's for charity.

When I was reading his facebook comments originally, it came across as though he said it to get people off his back for selling the shirt in the first place, and it's just escalated from there? 

[Sheepskin Stu]

My thoughts on it are that its more of a contractual point for the seller and buyer. Nobody else has suffered any financial loss. Even the charity itself hasnt actually lost out as it was never party to the agreement.

If the Buyer feels that the promise of the proceeds of sale going to charity formed part of the contract he made with the Seller then he may have some right of recourse. Nobody else that bid has lost anything and the charity itself is not party to the contract which has been made between buyer and seller so they cant argue a contractual loss either. Only person that has a contractual remedy is the buyer. Possibly Ebay's terms have been breached but highly unlikely they'd want to become involved.

Criminal liability.... unlikely. If for example he'd been fundraising, had asked people to donate and then simply pocketed the cash then it's obtaining money by deception. People have indeed been prosecuted for that before. Where that falls down here is that this issue has arisen in the context of a commercial transaction between a buyer and a seller. He may have said that he intended to donate the proceeds to a particular charity but if asked his response would most likely be that he changed his mind. That in itself is not a criminal act. Buyer has still received what they thought they were buying etc etc. 

Morally reprehensible I agree. I doubt it carries a criminal liabilty though. 

I broadly agree with that. The ebay listing never mentioned a charity so it's entirely possible that the buyer never knew about the facebook comments. Trial by social media is not healthy.

Dave Syers and others were tweeting about it being for charity and i can't see someone paying £720 for a shirt if they didn't to be honest.

Why not? It's a highly collectable piece of merchandise. There's plenty of people who collect memorabilia like this.

[silent majority]

The club and Bluebell Wood are aware of the situation. Let's keep things calm until we know what the resolution is.

[wilts rover]

There are terms and conditions for selling on ebay - I am sure they would be interested in people claiming to benefit a charity and then not doing so.

[Sheepskin Stu]

There are terms and conditions for selling on ebay - I am sure they would be interested in people claiming to benefit a charity and then not doing so.

There was no mention of a charity on the ebay page.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brentford-V-Doncaster-official-match-worn-t-shirt-David-Syers-/171039919392?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item27d2c60d20

[Sheepskin Stu]

The club and Bluebell Wood are aware of the situation. Let's keep things calm until we know what the resolution is.

The lad hasn't really done a lot wrong aside from being very naive about what he posts on a social media site. There's plenty on here trying to seize the moral high ground. He's just a kid. Kids do stupid things sometimes. No need for the witchhunt.

[TommyC]

Exactly. If the Buyer has been duped and genuinely thought it was going to charity then he can raise the issue with the Seller and Ebay. If Bluebell Wood feel that something iffy has gone on then they also can raise it.

Apart from that I dont really see how anyone else has lost out! Its between the Seller, the Buyer and Bluebell Wood.

[drfcbenny625]

IF the buyer of the shirt has been induced by the thought that the money will be donated to charity then it  would be a misrepresentation and damages could be sort.