War Memorial to fallen Rovers players at the KM

[les@donr]

I would like to suggest the idea of having a War Memorial to Rovers players who lost their lives in WW1 and WW2, with their rank and regiments crests.

[RobTheRover]

Can you name them?

[les@donr]

Rob, no I can't, but I will be very surprised if there are some from WW2 and a lot more from WW1. In both wars footballers did not exemption from active service. Hence, Aldershot had one of the best wartime side made up of serving soldiers who were also FL footballers.

[RobTheRover]

Well,  there is absolutely zero chance of the club funding this,  I'm afraid. Once again,  all funding will be diverted towards the playing side.

[IDM]

How can you say that for sure Rob?  If there is enough of a supporter groundswell of opinion, working with IRWT etc, then why wouldn't the club at least part fund something - it would only need to be a few hundred pounds perhaps?

[scaley back rover]

i think its a good idea and would support it .

[The L J Monk]

Some people are very good at spending other people's money.

Legends Wall, War Memorial, Statues etc. For a club on a very limited budget, trying to compete in the second tier, where would you rather see money spent - on competing or on aesthetics?

[scaley back rover]

why not hold a collection to at least contribute

[Glyn_Wigley]

It would be nice if they were remembered somewhere, even if only on a webpage. Does anybody want to and know how to research this?

[RoversDave]

It would be nice if they were remembered somewhere, even if only on a webpage. Does anybody want to and know how to research this?

This sounds like the pace to start. Compile a definitive list then create a memorial. But do you just stick to WW1 and WW2?

[hifi76]

Other supporters clubs have done similar things and may be able to help you with research. Leyton Orient have a memorial at the Somme for their players that lost their lives and have regular trips there to commorate this.
They would have the information on how to research this. It was actually supported and contributed to by our own legend Peter Kitchen.

[IDM]

Some people are very good at spending other people's money.

Legends Wall, War Memorial, Statues etc. For a club on a very limited budget, trying to compete in the second tier, where would you rather see money spent - on competing or on aesthetics?

Over the last 12 months it has become clear that the club is increasingly engaging with the community.  I would assume that they have a (relatively small?) budget for such activities, from which this idea could be supported?

[DaveDRFC]

There already is that small memorial garden at the ground near car park 1. Not entirely sure what's in it but maybe this could become a part of that if something was done?

[wilts rover]

There is plenty of information out there on various websites regarding soldiers who died in WWI & WWII - shouldn't take me too long to find the Rovers players among them (if indeed there are any).

This ought to be part of the overall displaying the history of the club, shouldn't it? Names on a memorial is all well and good but a display that had photos and a little biography of the players would be better.

[Highland Rover]

Ernest Edgar Ellis , at Rovers 1908-09 , sadly died on the first day of the Battle of the Somme in 1916 along with 6 other Hearts players ( enlisted in the Royal Scots ) . their sacrifice is still remembered by Hearts supporters to this day .

Another would be B Tebbutt ( ex Northampton , at Rovers 1914-15 ) who joined the so called Footballers Battalion in 1915

Think this is a worthwhile project but could take a lot of research through WW1 Army records etc

[Bristol Red Rover]

I think its a good idea as part of our history/museum project, and needn't be anything costly at all.

Wilf Shaw who apparently played 190 times for us 1931-42 (the last game I can see he played was Oct 24 1942), and Glyn Jones (can't see he played for us in any competitive matches) both reported to have dies in WW2.

http://www.doncasterrovers.co.uk/history/League%20Tables/League%20table%201938-1939.htm

[les@donr]

I accept the criticism that there is a cost for both the Legends Wall and a Rovers players memorial. But when up there will be no further cost for the War Memorial and a low cost to maintain and upgrade the Legends Wall. The ideas suggested are to encourage an identity that the current fans have with the club's past. I also think the above are two separate projects and not need to run at the same time. Given that next year is the 100th anniversary of the start of WW1, it would be a fitting project, and could involve local school children to research the lives of the fallen from Doncaster, including those who played for the club.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

I agree with the heritage angle on this. It's an additional way for people and their families to connect and remain connected with the club. If that ties more people in then it may pay for itself.

Sure, we've got to walk before we can run, but as said on the other thread, it does need people to co-ordinate these things. We know the club has limited resources so may be encouraging more volunteers to get involved is what we need.

You may have seen the VSC encouraging folk to join in the past and to help the club with these sort of community projects with limited success.

May be it's a case of prioritising and then the club directly appealing for help with these things.   

[les@donr]

It would be nice if local companies could step forward help with the cost of the War Memorial. As I said previously that next year is the centennial of the start of WW1, it would be fitting to have the War Memorial in place before the start of the 2014/15 season.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

A few good ideas in here, we should never forget the past.

Rather than expecting the club to control it why not put some thoughts together and get them on the forum and then perhaps those with some ideas could find a bit of time to put something to the club and then maybe even see it forward themselves?  Whether the club contribute or not if you want something doing that should be relatively feesible why not look into it yourself as fans?

[Bristol Red Rover]

Its a huge chunk of work to go through all ex players to see if they survived the wars. I'd be happy to help though if someone has access to war record archives. I think a list of names would be essential as a starter for this rather than a generalised memorial. Once that list is sorted, maybe then getting a fund for it and seeing what kind of memorial the club feels its best to have and where it would go.

[ReadingViking]

I think its a good idea as part of our history/museum project, and needn't be anything costly at all.

Wilf Shaw who apparently played 190 times for us 1931-42 (the last game I can see he played was Oct 24 1942), and Glyn Jones (can't see he played for us in any competitive matches) both reported to have dies in WW2.

http://www.doncasterrovers.co.uk/history/League%20Tables/League%20table%201938-1939.htm

To quote the excellent Donny The Official History of Doncaster Rovers by Tony Bluff and Barry Watson

' But there was sadness as well for the club and its supporters, when in October came the news that 21 year old Sgt Glyn Jones had been killed over Germany. He had last played for the Rovers in 1943-44. In March Wilf Shaw was killed in action on the Western Front.'

I guess a lot of the players may have gone down the pit instead of joining the forces.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Beat me to it.

Just saying club Historian Tony Bluff could be a good starting point. I can't find any contact details for him but I bet Steve Uttley has. In fact this may also be of interest to Steve.

steveuttley@doncasterroversfc.co.uk

   

[DonnyBazR0ver]

PS. I think there are two empty 'Walls of Fame' spaces at the North West and North East corners of the stadium. May not be ideal but just a thought.

[les@donr]

Some excellent ideas here, I wonder if it would be possible to access the club's archives to find out the which players would be included on a Rovers War Memorial. The club must have details about each and every player who played for the club, involving club historians and also Doncaster/Sheffield local studies libraries might yeald some important info, and help us to put together a short bio of each player, when they played for Rovers, the regiment they served in, and in which battle and year they died. Regimental records could help too.

[Highland Rover]

It would be necessary to have dates of birth , full names etc . Don't forget we could be looking at people born as early as 1880 , which would make them in their  30's at the start of WW1

WW1 Military records are available on Ancestry.com ( subscription ) and the National Archives ( free to view ) .

I plan to try a couple of names through the above records and see if anything turns up

[les@donr]

HR, cheers for what you are plannig to do. I will try to get some info out of Sheffield Library of which I am still a member.

[Glyn_Wigley]

I think the starting point wold be a definitive list of anyone who played (or would we want to include those who played for the reserves or were just registered with the club but never played for the first team as well?) for Rovers, and work from there.

Does anybody know what archives the club has and how we would go about allowing someone access to them for study purposes?

[GlennKirkwoodFanClub]

There are two different issues here.

One is the lack of information on the history of the club that the club actually holds. I understood that a lot of the archive just "disappeared" in about 2002. There is also nobody that works directly for the club that has much knowledge of the football side of the club that they actually work for.  I'm aware of individuals (supporters) that have done a lot of work players throughout the history of the club and they may have the information that is sought, but the chances of being able to identify everyone that fell in a war may be very slim especially as leading up to WWI Rovers were a non-league club. And anyway, should they have a plaque and the likes of John Nicholson who died whilst still club captain in a traffic accident shouldn't.

The other issue is that the stadium already has a memorial garden. I'm sure if someone was to do a plaque for former Rovers "en mass" then I'm sure they'd put it on the wall. If supporters contributed to individual plaques for different players, I'm sure they would do this too. They are generally quite receptive (especially under GB) for anyone wanting to do something to do it.

[ReadingViking]

I think the starting point wold be a definitive list of anyone who played (or would we want to include those who played for the reserves or were just registered with the club but never played for the first team as well?) for Rovers, and work from there.

Does anybody know what archives the club has and how we would go about allowing someone access to them for study purposes?

Plus you've got all the players from other clubs who guested for  the Rovers during the war.