Time for the Death Penalty for terrorists I`m afraid

[jucyberry]

Like I said elsewhere, Who killed James Hanratty?

Tell you guys and gals, what, to you, are the hallmarks of a civilised society? What is it that makes it civilised?  How would you define a civilised society?

Cheers

BobG

Not the best example after they took DNA samples from his grave in 2002, Bob. I'd try Timothy Evans or Derek Bentley.

Or Ruth Ellis.... It is nothing but barbaric and something I never want to see a return of in my life time.

[BobG]

It's a primitive reaction to want to take the life of a killer but I would hope as a nation we have evolved past the primitive.

It's about time you knew better Jucy. This country has most definitely not moved beyond the primitive. It's all around us. every single damn day.

What was the point of me asking above what makes a society civilised? Well, take England today:

Xenophobic in the extreme
Racist
Knee jerk (all you have to think of their is the current crop of sex cases relating to a different era, different mores - never mind MP's expenses, hospital hysteria and all the rest of it)
Easily led - and wanting to be led too. why did Cameron and his silly cronies cosy up to the press barons? Why has every government in recent memory done that?
Morally bankrupt. we can't build enough hospitals pay enough doctors, equip our universities, build enough power stations, build enough reservoirs, but we can spend tens of billions on yet another  redundant nuclear deterrent. We can't even pay effing aeroplanes for two monstrous great aircraft carriers! WTF sort of morality lies behind that?
Corrupt to a degree even a banana republic would want to hide
Greedy - top dogs earnings are now what? 20 times average earnings? or is it more? I can't be arsed to check. 30 years ago it was only perhaps 5 times. I'm sure Billy will give us the accurate figures!
Exploitative - zero hours contracts is just one example amongst zillions

This country is primitive in the extreme Jucy. It's nasty, viciious, brutish and shameful. remember the paedeatrician who got killed in Bristol a few years back cos the local yobs thought he was pedophile?

BobG

[Glyn_Wigley]

Like I said elsewhere, Who killed James Hanratty?

Tell you guys and gals, what, to you, are the hallmarks of a civilised society? What is it that makes it civilised?  How would you define a civilised society?

Cheers

BobG

Not the best example after they took DNA samples from his grave in 2002, Bob. I'd try Timothy Evans or Derek Bentley.

Or Ruth Ellis.... It is nothing but barbaric and something I never want to see a return of in my life time.

Ruth Ellis isn't a controversial case, or considered to be a miscarriage of justice. Evans and Bentley were miscarriages of justice.

[Glyn_Wigley]

remember the paedeatrician who got killed in Bristol a few years back cos the local yobs thought he was pedophile?

Sorry Bob, but that is a complete myth. It didn't happen.

http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/wire/8897

[BobG]

Thank you Glyn. I hadn't heard about that. Now I wish I had used Derek  or Timothy!

Cheers

BobG

[BobG]

Agreed Glyn. He was attacked - but he wasn't killed.  I've still got the Bristol paper somewhere with the report.

BobG

[Glyn_Wigley]

Agreed Glyn. He was attacked - but he wasn't killed.  I've still got the Bristol paper somewhere with the report.

BobG

http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/wire/8897

[MrFrost]

It is becoming clear now that these two Kitsons wanted to die, as it seems they wanted "suicide by cop". So giving them the death penalty would ultimately be what they want.

[not on facebook]

It is never right to take the life of another person. Far too many innocent people went to the gallows for it ever to be seen as right and proper.

People calling for the death penalty must think further, all an execution would create is a martyr to the cause.

that view was acceptable in my book some 25 pluss years ago,the days When you felt safe with Your kids playing outside ad walking to school etc etc.

Today Its not safe at all is it.you read about young kids getting raped or killed etc etc all the time.

Iam sure Such acts are on the increase for whatever
Reasons,despite todays media just about covers every case.

It feals to me that Its getting  more acceptable within society When a new case Of a young Child getting raped or killed because it happens all the time.

I for sure would be happy for death sentence to be given out for killing Of  a Child,and iam close to accepting for raping Of a Child too.

In todays society you it is possible to Get a longer punishment for a FV offence Than for sexually abuse with young kids

That is wrong

[jucyberry]

I wonder today how she would have been judged? A woman battered time and time again, one who made no attempt to defend herself in court.

But yup, you are right Glyn, on appeal it was decided the execution was justified at that time.

[MrFrost]

I'll tell you something else that is wrong, that one day these two "men" will be eligible for parole. They could be walking our streets again, probably with new identities in case there is a reprisal against them. That is our law.
In my opinion, they should never, ever be able to taste freedom again.

[Glyn_Wigley]

I for sure would be happy for death sentence to be given out for killing Of  a Child

Like Sally Clark, Angela Canning or the Bridgewater Four?

[MrFrost]

I for sure would be happy for death sentence to be given out for killing Of  a Child

Like Sally Clark, Angela Canning or the Bridgewater Four?

Keep on your soap box Glyn. You can't accept people see things differently to you.
Clearly prison with the luxuries I mentioned is fair punishment for the two who committed the crimes today.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Keep on your soap box Glyn. You can't accept people see things differently to you.

Since when did not agreeing with someone somehow become not accepting that they do?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Really simple question for me. Nothing to do with morality. Just simple rationality.

You have to ask yourself, what is the proposed purpose of a death penalty?

If the purpose is to deter these acts, I'm prepared to listen to evidence that it works. But the vast majority of murders are committed by people who are deranged or in a mad rage. They don't stop and think about the prospect of a death sentence before they act. So the possibility of deterrence there vanishes.

As for these terrorists, their very raison d'être is to sacrifice themselves in their cause. Ask yourself if you truly believe that this act today would have been deterred by the death penalty?

So what's left? The only reason left for wanting the death penalty is retribution. Vengeance. In which case, you need to look in the mirror and ask yourself why vengeance is so important to you personally.

[Boomstick]

I can understand why the authorities want to keep them alive, to gain evidence and find out why they did it, if they acted alone and to learn lessons. If they do survive then they certainly won't see the light of day again, so what would be the point in keeping them alive? Surely killing them would be more humane than solitary confinement for 50 plus years, with no other human contact?
I'd be very suspicious of their families/ friends too, to the point of arresting them for interviewing, and helping them return to which ever Muslim country they originated. Partly for their own safety and partly because they don't deserve the comfort and affluence of a civilised western country.
Multi culturism simply does not work, if they don't want to integegrate into British society, then please retire to where you came from.
I'll wait for the typical lefty response, who are worried by doing so that labour will lose votes.

[The L J Monk]

Oslo, so not only are you relying on a criminal justice model whose validity rests on something that has never proved possible i.e. full proof convictions, but now you've built a time machine to undermine the validity of one of the most successful existing models.

And I'm the fool?

[MrFrost]

I can understand why the authorities want to keep them alive, to gain evidence and find out why they did it, if they acted alone and to learn lessons. If they do survive then they certainly won't see the light of day again, so what would be the point in keeping them alive? Surely killing them would be more humane than solitary confinement for 50 plus years, with no other human contact?
I'd be very suspicious of their families/ friends too, to the point of arresting them for interviewing, and helping them return to which ever Muslim country they originated. Partly for their own safety and partly because they don't deserve the comfort and affluence of a civilised western country.
Multi culturism simply does not work, if they don't want to integegrate into British society, then please retire to where you came from.
I'll wait for the typical lefty response, who are worried by doing so that labour will lose votes.

I'm in total agreement. None of us could go and live in a muslim country and start disrespecting their beliefs, citizens and soldiers. What do you think would happen?

[Glyn_Wigley]

I can understand why the authorities want to keep them alive, to gain evidence and find out why they did it, if they acted alone and to learn lessons. If they do survive then they certainly won't see the light of day again, so what would be the point in keeping them alive? Surely killing them would be more humane than solitary confinement for 50 plus years, with no other human contact?
I'd be very suspicious of their families/ friends too, to the point of arresting them for interviewing, and helping them return to which ever Muslim country they originated. Partly for their own safety and partly because they don't deserve the comfort and affluence of a civilised western country.
Multi culturism simply does not work, if they don't want to integegrate into British society, then please retire to where you came from.
I'll wait for the typical lefty response, who are worried by doing so that labour will lose votes.

I'm in total agreement. None of us could go and live in a muslim country and start disrespecting their beliefs, citizens and soldiers. What do you think would happen?

I thought we were proud of our tradition of freedom of speech and expression and looked down on those countries where there wasn't any...but you want us to become like them?

[Jenny]

It is becoming clear now that these two c***s wanted to die, as it seems they wanted "suicide by cop". So giving them the death penalty would ultimately be what they want.

I firmly believe that they wanted to be killed - I can't imagine for the life of me why they would have carried out the actions they did afterwards had they expected that they would be taken by the police alive.

The incident is absolutely sickening, you just cannot comprehend what must be going through someones mind to commit an act like that.

ITV need stringing up for showing the video of the guy on the 6pm news thats for sure, no one needs to see that kind of thing pre-watershed and its just giving the terrorists what they want. For those calling people for taking videos of the incident etc, we live in a society where people like to watch their life go by through a camera lense, its sad, but in this case, it will provide police with all the evidence they need to charge the men involved, so maybe those who took the videos don't need to be villified, but praised for gathering evidence.

The reporting of the incident has angered me, its just lazy, BBC started off by saying it was men of a Muslim appearance... really? They just look like two black guys from the Western world. my first thought wouldn't have been Muslim and it doesn't help the tensions. For those who are banging on about sending them back to where they come from, have you watched the videos? I would be very surprised if the guy who was speaking to the camera wasn't born and raised in London...

The reaction all over social media has been pathetic, I honestly despair of the society that we will live.

[MrFrost]

It is becoming clear now that these two c***s wanted to die, as it seems they wanted "suicide by cop". So giving them the death penalty would ultimately be what they want.

I firmly believe that they wanted to be killed - I can't imagine for the life of me why they would have carried out the actions they did afterwards had they expected that they would be taken by the police alive.

The incident is absolutely sickening, you just cannot comprehend what must be going through someones mind to commit an act like that.

ITV need stringing up for showing the video of the guy on the 6pm news thats for sure, no one needs to see that kind of thing pre-watershed and its just giving the terrorists what they want. For those calling people for taking videos of the incident etc, we live in a society where people like to watch their life go by through a camera lense, its sad, but in this case, it will provide police with all the evidence they need to charge the men involved, so maybe those who took the videos don't need to be villified, but praised for gathering evidence.

The reporting of the incident has angered me, its just lazy, BBC started off by saying it was men of a Muslim appearance... really? They just look like two black guys from the Western world. my first thought wouldn't have been Muslim and it doesn't help the tensions. For those who are banging on about sending them back to where they come from, have you watched the videos? I would be very surprised if the guy who was speaking to the camera wasn't born and raised in London...

The reaction all over social media has been pathetic, I honestly despair of the society that we will live.

It does seem however, they were of Islamic faith, and if it appears to be true, you have to wonder what has motivated the extreme views.

[scaley back rover]

The people who filmed it have fallen into the trap its what they wanted max publicity and the reason they stayed so long was to be killed so they could die as martyrs (a wish they didnt get) . As i have said before you cant stop thesenpeople who wish to die for a cause thats why they strap shit to themselves . One thing we can do and have done is make it more difficult for them. If they are homegrown then theres not much to be done but if they are from another country they and are suspected they should be sent back to their country of origin straight away f**k the european courts.

[Jenny]

So every single person who  currently lives here and isn't homegrown should be 'sent back' incase they one day decide to kill someone?

[Glyn_Wigley]

So every single person who  currently lives here and isn't homegrown should be 'sent back' incase they one day decide to kill someone?

Apparently. So much for defending freedom of speech, expression and belief for all those people who go about their lives in a peaceful and lawful manner. Look at someone in a funny way and you're fair game...the Thought Police become a reality. How long before we have the Stasi?

[Jenny]

It does seem however, they were of Islamic faith, and if it appears to be true, you have to wonder what has motivated the extreme views.

I'm not sure what your point is or what you are responding to with this one?

[MrFrost]

It does seem however, they were of Islamic faith, and if it appears to be true, you have to wonder what has motivated the extreme views.

I'm not sure what your point is or what you are responding to with this one?

Point us, it doesn't matter the colour of their skin, or what they sound like, if they believe in a radical ideology - which appears to be the case here.
I haven't seen any reports which said they "looked muslim". They were quoted as saying they were killing in the name of Allah - that is where the reports that they were of Islamic faith have come from.

[Jenny]

I only saw the initial BBC website coverage, but their reporting was stating that the men appeared to be of Muslim appearance. Still wondering what a Muslim looks like.

I went to school with a lad who converted to Islam, he had blonde hair and blue eyes - guessing the BBC woudl report him of being Christian appearance before they knew any further details?

[MrFrost]

I only saw the initial BBC website coverage, but their reporting was stating that the men appeared to be of Muslim appearance. Still wondering what a Muslim looks like.

I went to school with a lad who converted to Islam, he had blonde hair and blue eyes - guessing the BBC woudl report him of being Christian appearance before they knew any further details?

Fair enough, I can't comment on the BBC as I don't follow their news, but it certainly wasn't reported like that on Sky.

It is now being reported that at least one of the two had converted to Islam.

More has to be done to prevent these young men turning to radical beliefs.

[scaley back rover]

So every single person who  currently lives here and isn't homegrown should be 'sent back' incase they one day decide to kill someone?

If there is enough evidence suggesting that they are planning or plotting something against this country then the answer is yes . If they are prepared to do something like that to law abiding citizens of all faiths and beleifs then they clearly dont want to be part of this multicultural society that we live in and this country stands for. If we sit back and let idiots like hamza and the like preach hatred in a country that has given them all sorts of benefits and freedoms that they wouldnt have in their country of origin , then they clearly dont like it here so should be sent back. For too long now we have been messing about with idiots like him when the truth is we could have sent him back saving us a lot of money , and him the air time to brainwash peoples minds.

[Jenny]

So its been confirmed one of the suspects was born in Lambeth - where are we sending him back to?!