Aren't you glad...

[Mike_F]

...that Rovers fans submit designs for our shirts? Working in Alfreton there are plenty of Derby fans in my office and one of them has just shown me what they've got for the coming season. His words were "It'll look like someone's died every week!".

http://www.footballkitnews.com/9164/new-derby-county-kit-2013-2014-kappa-dcfc-home-shirt-13-14/

More proof that we're doing the right thing with In Rovers We Trust and all this from the organisation that costs just £1 a month to join!

[Sheepskin Stu]

That was a party political broadcast by the VSC Party...

[Mike_F]

Stand in front of your telescreen, Stuart. There's a good party member.

[The L J Monk]

IRWT - Bringing you Manufacturers' Templates since 2013.

[Mike_F]

LJM - You're quite happy to post regularly on a forum provided free of charge by volunteers as part of the overall work we/they do as a supporters' trust. You're quite welcome to offer constructive criticism and debate/offer your opinions on how we can do things better for the benefit of the club and its fans.

Here are a some open and honest questions:

What do you think you are achieving by posting cheap digs like the one above?

How (if at all) do you think it will improve things?

Do you think it'a an appropriate way to utilise your freedom of speech in a space provided by volunteers who give up their time for the benefit of the club you support and its stakeholders?

[Sheepskin Stu]

Stand in front of your telescreen, Stuart. There's a good party member.

I was erect at the prospect.

[The L J Monk]

Here are a some open and honest questions:

What do you think you are achieving by posting cheap digs like the one above?

How (if at all) do you think it will improve things?

Do you think it'a an appropriate way to utilise your freedom of speech in a space provided by volunteers who give up their time for the benefit of the club you support and its stakeholders?

1. It is my view that some members of the VSC hierarchy are very quick to claim credit for any positive changes made (or just promised) at the club. These same members are not however so quick to embrace criticism, when such changes don't pan out as was originally intended. My post was intended to draw attention to this view.

2. I don't expect it to improve things.

3. I do think its an appropriate way to utilise my freedom of speech in a space provided by volunteers who give up their time for the benefit of the club I support and its stakeholders.

If you have any more open and honest questions I'd be more than happy to answer them Mike.

[not on facebook]

"Looks like somebody as died every week"

Christ i Cant stop laughing at that comment after looking at the link to the shirt

Ffs

[Mike_F]

Point 1.

We're very fortunate to have a positive two-way relationship with the club and "In Rovers We Trust" is the embodiment of that. If "we" claim credit for any positives to come out of that, it's because we are proud of the way we have worked tirelesly for the fans in making a difference to the club/stakeholder relationship. We (the fans) are in a very fortunate position at Doncaster Rovers compared to many other clubs. I don't want to sound sanctimonious but the VSC has done a lot over the last decade or so to build this. I, personally would like to think that over the last year we've really knuckled down to the true values of what a supporters' trust is about, even when it hasn't been the populist thing to do.

Point 2.

Then why say it?!

Point 3.

You really believe that denigrating the people who provide you with a free service to which you dedicate a lot of your time (so I therefore presume you enjoy using it?) when as you freely admit you don't expect it to improve things is a worthwhile thing to do. Why?

[Leebtyler]

i do partly agree with LJ, the template we used was too generic, i think we could have done more with it, unless the club had a set number of templates available, having said that it looks ok, will have to see it in the flesh to decide, the only thing that bothers me is after shelling out £44 or whatever last season, i had hoped to get at least another season out of the last one, typically we've been great as a club for that.

My understanding of this forum was exactly what LJ stated, we pay our subs to have opinions, and express those in relation to the club and its facilities here, if not here where else? if i have mis-understood the reason for having these forums let me know and i'll take my opinions and patronage elsewhere... if we cant discuss the negative and positive reactions to Rovers here, then i feel there is little point in these forums, you may not like his opinions but he is entitled to them nonetheless.

[Mike_F]

Nowt wrong with opinions. And the forum would be nothing without debate. Just that there are ways of doing it and when it's done through the medium of snide remarks that by admission aren't going to change anything it can be a bit grating.

[Sheepskin Stu]

THIS IS SERIOUS!

[The L J Monk]

Point 1 - I'm all for IRWT, but must we have this constant desire to seek credit for everything though? Any positive is seized upon by the VSC and claimed as another victory for fan power. The shirt design being a case in point. IRWT claimed it as designed by the fans, when in fact it was some manufacturer templates that had been coloured in red and white. Fair play for trying, but when it doesn't happen, why persist with attempting to claim some kind of victory.

Point 2 - Does every post on this forum have to be made with the aim of improving something? When you're moaning on another thread about people who do 45 in 50 zones and 45 in 30 zones - you're not going to change anything - so why say it?

Point 3 - Having been a VSC member last year, when does my contribution run out - i'd need to see a breakdown of the costs to really get to grips with this matter. Anyhow, with regards to your question, please see Point 2.

[Mike_F]

Ok, without wanting to draw this on any longer:

Yes, I was having a grumble about people driving at 45 in 60 zones and continuing that speed through 30 zones in an off-topic thread in the off-topic forum. It's a bit of a dig at people who deserve a bit of stick, not a sly dig at people trying to do something positive.

The way I dressed up the whole Derby shirt thing was a bit of fun after one of their fans in my office brought it to my attention. I really don't think that it would have happened here thanks to the relationship between club and supporters.

As a lapsed VSC member I'd be genuinely interested to know what we're now doing to put you off re-joining.

[silent majority]

Can somebody point me in the direction of the templates that we are supposed to have utilised?

[The L J Monk]

As a lapsed VSC member I'd be genuinely interested to know what we're now doing to put you off re-joining.

This is the second time a VSC Director has been "genuinely" interested to know why I didn't rejoin.

One of my main issues was with the departure of Gartom and the apparent goings on with the "VSC Box". It was all very cloak and dagger. There appeared to be a lot of politics going on, and a degree of in-fighting within the VSC directors. Could you clarify what was going on at that time Mike? For me, there was a lack of transparency about how money was being used, and to a degree this did put me off renewing.

[Mike_F]

LJ, the reason I'm interested is that as a (fairly new) director and long standing member I'm keen to engage as many fans as possible with the VSC as I believe it's great to have an active supporters' trust not just for bad times (like Pompey et al) but also to build stronger bonds in the good times too.

That may sound a bit clichéd and sickly but it's what motivates me to do the little bit that I can for a worthwhile organisation. If there are issues that prevent people from being a part of that then we need to know so that we can become stronger together.

As I only joined the board in August, I wasn't directly a party to the changes that took place last year. I saw some of the hours that the previous directors put in and certainly wouldn't denigrate their efforts at all. I put myself forward for election because I felt that over the years, the trust had - bit by bit - lost sight of its original goals and wanted to be part of the process to breathe new life into fulfilling them.

As IRWT is an integral part of that, it's always going to be an issue that's high on the agenda. Constructive criticism is always welcome as far as I'm concerned and that's precisely why we run the satisfaction surveys. In partnership with the club, we're working to constantly improve fan engagement and we want to keep that trend on track. That's at the heart of my questions to you which to give you your due you've been good enough to answer.

[Mr1Croft]

As a lapsed VSC member I'd be genuinely interested to know what we're now doing to put you off re-joining.

This is the second time a VSC Director has been "genuinely" interested to know why I didn't rejoin.

One of my main issues was with the departure of Gartom and the apparent goings on with the "VSC Box". It was all very cloak and dagger. There appeared to be a lot of politics going on, and a degree of in-fighting within the VSC directors. Could you clarify what was going on at that time Mike? For me, there was a lack of transparency about how money was being used, and to a degree this did put me off renewing.

There was no lack of transparancy LJ, I presented the accounts to the AGM and the members present, while I dont have the exact figures to hand it was clear that while the two boxes provided the VSC with different opportunities they weren't financially viable and it was decided this year that there were other issues such as the general match day experience, the youth team and the community wwhich was more worthy of our time, effort and of course our members monies.

The reason why we are genuinley interested is down to the fact that we believe this organisation is crucial to the future of our football club so we would like to believe that all Rovers fans share this view so when a member lapses or we see cheap digs against the VSC we would like to think we are due an explanation at least as to why you no longer (or never did) share our view.

[The L J Monk]

Mike - to give you your dues, I appreciate the interest you have shown, and I have to say, it's the most reasonable response I've seen on here from a VSC representative to a thread that wasn't entirely pro-VSC. For that, I thank-you.

Lee - I'm more than happy though to accept your word on the transparency of the accounts, but as a member at the time, reading some of the exchanges on here and the subsequent departure of senior VSC reps, I wasn't entirely comfortable with what was going on.

Since then, I'm sure the VSC has done some good stuff, but I find some of the personalities involved slightly.....eccentric. Very quick to claim success, quicker still to get on the defensive should someone question them at all, and, at times, lacking consistency in their approach. Personally, this has also put me off re-joining.

[Mr1Croft]

Mike - to give you your dues, I appreciate the interest you have shown, and I have to say, it's the most reasonable response I've seen on here from a VSC representative to a thread that wasn't entirely pro-VSC. For that, I thank-you.

Lee - I'm more than happy though to accept your word on the transparency of the accounts, but as a member at the time, reading some of the exchanges on here and the subsequent departure of senior VSC reps, I wasn't entirely comfortable with what was going on.

Since then, I'm sure the VSC has done some good stuff, but I find some of the personalities involved slightly.....eccentric. Very quick to claim success, quicker still to get on the defensive should someone question them at all, and, at times, lacking consistency in their approach. Personally, this has also put me off re-joining.

Each to their own LJ in terms of opinions.

I think what you perhaps may be overlooking is that the VSC Board is made up of individuals who donate their free time (more than you can imagine) to have an endless amount of phone calls, emails and meetings with not only each other but several members of key staff at the club.

For example on the topic of the shirts, and as someone involved from the first minute I do consider it to be a success, we the VSC successfully gave everyone the chance to vote on the top 5 shirts from a list of 2 dozen and we submitted these to the club who submitted them to JustSports who then made their alterations based on costs, commercial reasons etc., and delivered 5 of each shirt back to the club. While I understand people's disappointment that they weren't exactly what we submitted the process has been a transparent one and it has also been a massive learning curve for both us and the club, that said it was still a success. Remember we had the Chairman John Ryan who saved this club and pumps millions each year coming forward and asking the fans if he could submit his own designs, that tells us what IRWT has done to the mentality of this club so yes, I will claim that IRWT is a success. Even if you claim that story isn't true there was still a vote on 5 shirts and I bet some Derby fans are wishing they had that choice right now...

As for taking criticism badly, well I suppose we all react differently. But I will say that when you do put somewhere in the region of 30-40 hours per week for no benefit of your own but to Rovers fans in general and hear negative criticism it is all to easy to take it badly sometimes. I think that perhaps the problem is that even when there are some positives in a situation some people persistently overlook this and only point out and slate the negatives.

[Mike_F]

As per Lee's note above, each to their own in terms of opinions. I hope that in time you'll see that we, the directors are doing the right things for the right reasons and when we inevitably move on we'll be handing over a model supporters' trust.

Thanks for the dialogue.

[Mike_F]

Oh and by the way...

That Derby shirt is bloody horrendous!

[bobjimwilly]

I would like to add, as a fan first and VSC Director 2nd, what we have achieved as a trust this last 12 months has overlooked anything that we achieved in quite a few years previous to that, IMO.

We've never had such an innfluence, in a good way, over the club, and been in such constant dialogue with so many key members of the DRFC heirarchy, and not just having the odd chat with JR, which I personally never found that interesting, re-assuring or enlightening.

With regards to the specific point on the shirts - all forum users were given the chance to submit their own designs and vote on these designs. There were unforseen tweaks that needed to fit with sponsor and manufacturer specifications, but these were sprung on the club and the vsc, and we really had no control over these, but lessons were learned. Have we ever had the chance, as fans, to design and submit our own designs before this season? And with regards to the away shirt, we had total freedom on colours, and the popular vote won, and will now be worn next season? That for me is a massive step for fan engagement.

As mentioned in this thread already and before now, the box was dropped as it simply wasn't profitable, and the board decided we didn't want to waste any money this season. We voted to put our members money to better use in the community, which is what we have done and continue to do.

As a director, I don't see myself as being the defensive type, but I don't tend to ignore comments that are sometimes made when they are entirely untrue, and I certainly don't take kindly to comments that are posted to try and undo any of the hard work done by the VSC community (not referring to any posts in this topic btw - just saying!) Free speech is one thing, but this forum is provided by the VSC, so why should we let posts be made that try to bring us down or put off people joining?

I think the current board of directors are more transparent and open to communication than ever - you have our forum usernames, you have our emails, you have our postal address.
Please, please get in touch if you have any questions, concerns, ideas etc.

 

[BobG]

Absolutely hear bloody hear to your last two paragraphs Rob! Spot on.

BobG

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

And we'll all be looking forward to meeting more of you at our AGM etc in the future, we've many a plan that's for sure and always looking to discuss things, face to face is far better than on the forum, so if you have concerns/thoughts/ideas etc come and see us then.

[The L J Monk]

I must add that, naturally, I quite like that Derby kit.
   

[cas rover]

Think the Derby kits laughable were will they put the black arm band when someone does die they`ll have to ditch their kit then

[The L J Monk]

Quite right.

What have the NZRU been thinking all this time...

[VivaRovers]

If the sponsor was one colour (white) and within a black band on the front of the shirt (to match the one on the back) that Derby kit would be bloody lovely.

But it isn't, and it doesn't, so it is God awful.

However, I applaud there forward thinking regarding the permanent black armband. Seems that football clubs are asked to have a minute's silence or wear a black armband almost fortnightly these days, for things that whilst tragic, have bugger all to do with football or the clubs involve. Think of the money they'll save on black sock tape.

[bobbymax]

I would like to add, as a fan first and VSC Director 2nd, what we have achieved as a trust this last 12 months has overlooked anything that we achieved in quite a few years previous to that, IMO.

We've never had such an innfluence, in a good way, over the club, and been in such constant dialogue with so many key members of the DRFC heirarchy, and not just having the odd chat with JR, which I personally never found that interesting, re-assuring or enlightening.

With regards to the specific point on the shirts - all forum users were given the chance to submit their own designs and vote on these designs. There were unforseen tweaks that needed to fit with sponsor and manufacturer specifications, but these were sprung on the club and the vsc, and we really had no control over these, but lessons were learned. Have we ever had the chance, as fans, to design and submit our own designs before this season? And with regards to the away shirt, we had total freedom on colours, and the popular vote won, and will now be worn next season? That for me is a massive step for fan engagement.

As mentioned in this thread already and before now, the box was dropped as it simply wasn't profitable, and the board decided we didn't want to waste any money this season. We voted to put our members money to better use in the community, which is what we have done and continue to do.

As a director, I don't see myself as being the defensive type, but I don't tend to ignore comments that are sometimes made when they are entirely untrue, and I certainly don't take kindly to comments that are posted to try and undo any of the hard work done by the VSC community (not referring to any posts in this topic btw - just saying!) Free speech is one thing, but this forum is provided by the VSC, so why should we let posts be made that try to bring us down or put off people joining?

I think the current board of directors are more transparent and open to communication than ever - you have our forum usernames, you have our emails, you have our postal address.
Please, please get in touch if you have any questions, concerns, ideas etc.

 

Here, here! It's about time we started to appreciate what we are building and how lucky we are compared to the majority of other teams in the Football League!