Just put my 7 year old to bed.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Donnybax

Give me strength...

[PDX_Rover]

Top post BST.

[RedJ]

Regarding Bennett who gave him a new contract?

That would have been Flynn.

[Tokyos Boot]

Flogging these players off isn't my headache to have, thats why he's the manager!!!

We could have replaced Harper by doing an auction for his place in the squad - a 'be a footballer' experience, you get to train, go to the matches and sit in the dug-outs and park in a premium spot. Selling out a squad number could be a good cash generator.... oh wait...

]http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/aug/01/one-direction-louis-tomlinson-doncaster]

[vaya]

Your suggesting that with 500k each i couldn't find a better RB than Paul Quinn, and a better LB than James Husband?

Quinn wasn't good enough at League 1 level, never mind Championship, and Husband was relatively untested!

How can you argue that to have 1 registered RB and 1 LB wasn't ludicrous?


So no - i'd have spent it on 1st and 2nd choice full-backs.

This'll be the same Paul Quinn who was part of a League One winning defence will it?

[wilts rover]

Your suggesting that with 500k each i couldn't find a better RB than Paul Quinn, and a better LB than James Husband?

Quinn wasn't good enough at League 1 level, never mind Championship, and Husband was relatively untested!

How can you argue that to have 1 registered RB and 1 LB wasn't ludicrous?


So no - i'd have spent it on 1st and 2nd choice full-backs.

So you would have gone into the season with two central midfielders and Paynter and Brown as our only forwards - but with four fullbacks? I think its best I stop here.

[Tokyos Boot]

Oh come on, don't flatter to deceive.

Ronnie Wallwork won a premier league winners title at Manchester United once. Remember him? No, neither does anybody else.

[Donnybax]

Regarding Bennett who gave him a new contract?

That would have been Flynn.

Regarding Bennett who gave him a new contract?

That would have been Flynn.

he must be really good in training or something all managers say how much potential he has yet nobody gets anything out of him. Can only remember starting 1 game for Flynn and 0 for dickov. Unless we only gave him a contract to sell him

[vaya]

Oh come on, don't flatter to deceive.

Ronnie Wallwork won a premier league winners title at Manchester United once. Remember him? No, neither does anybody else.

Ronnie Wallwork didn't play 30-odd times in a Manchester United title winning side.

[Tokyos Boot]

Your suggesting that with 500k each i couldn't find a better RB than Paul Quinn, and a better LB than James Husband?

Quinn wasn't good enough at League 1 level, never mind Championship, and Husband was relatively untested!

How can you argue that to have 1 registered RB and 1 LB wasn't ludicrous?


So no - i'd have spent it on 1st and 2nd choice full-backs.

So you would have gone into the season with two central midfielders and Paynter and Brown as our only forwards - but with four fullbacks? I think its best I stop here.

An attack and midfield is a much more flexible area to play with in terms of formation and structure than a defence is. Its always terrifying when you start to see midfielders playing in defence - it takes a totally different kind of player!!!

So yeah, id sooner see us thin up front and be forced to play a front line with wingers flanking (Copps, Duffy, Forrester, Hell even Bennett could have a stab at these jobs) than literally not have any fit defenders ready to start big games - games we'd be pleased to take a point from - points that you take from keeping goals out of the onion bag!!!

[goalkick]

 

It's a game and we are only happy if everyone has his or her say . 7 to 70 we are all just playing  the game . Happy new-year 

what about anyone over 70.

[RedJ]

Regarding Bennett who gave him a new contract?

That would have been Flynn.

Regarding Bennett who gave him a new contract?

That would have been Flynn.

he must be really good in training or something all managers say how much potential he has yet nobody gets anything out of him. Can only remember starting 1 game for Flynn and 0 for dickov. Unless we only gave him a contract to sell him

That can't be the reason, cos we'd have gotten compensation from whoever signed him anyway with him being under 24. Plus he's shite so I don't know who'd want him.

[wilts rover]

Err, Sean O'Driscoll did!

I seem to remember quite a few people on here saying at the start of last season how he would soon be worth a million pounds and playing in the PL. Funny how his form dropped off after that isn't it.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Tokyo

So let's get this straight. You start off by complaining that no-one at the club thought what would happen if we get A (emphasis pib...) centre-half injured. Then when it's pointed out to you that we had four centre-backs on the books at the start of the season plus Paul Quinn able to stand in in extremis, you say that we should have invested in two full backs.

You ignore the fact that we brought in three additional full-backs during the first 3 months of the season.

You say that the Boarc should have spent extra money to bring in better players than a defence that was one of the best in the division for the first 10 matches.

You say that to make the money to do this we should have sold players that no-one wants to buy.

I should have listened to my better judgement. Now, off with you and wind up someone else because if this is the best you can do, you are boring me.

[BobG]

Don't you think, Billy, that this inability to construct a logical and factual argument is a sign of vast change in society? Those on here who can and do put forwards reasoned arguments are, I believe, in the main 40 +. Those who can't are, in the main, under 40. Now what does that tell us about the impact of change? Economic, political, technological and social change I might add.

If the utter tripe on here tonight is any evidence it's pretty scary isn't it? As I said t'other night, these people could be sitting on a jury near you one day soon.

BobG

[Tokyos Boot]

Eeee back in my day lad, we had respect for us elders.... you see, during the war... 

You don't like being proven wrong do you darling?

Guess who's still here 'WUM'ming his opinions about months after upsetting the political masterclass that is the VSC Forum regulars! Oh please.

Every pub needs a moaning old albert i suppose.

[RedJ]

Err, Sean O'Driscoll did!

He's on about the summer just gone wilts.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Tokyo

I'm at a loss to follow who you are talking to, or what you have "proven".

[Bentley Bullet]

BobG, did you actually go to the game today?

[Tokyos Boot]

That the defensive and recruitment failings fall on PDs head, that the budget wasnt used too effectively.

Sometimes people can disagree with your points, highlight a few of our weaknesses and argue whos to blame - its a football forum, it would be a barren and dull place to be if it didnt have people airing their complaints, moans and gripes.

So you've made your first ever positive post BST, and your playground goons might laugh at your condescending snipes, but theres no harm in disagreeing and my points have been clear as day.

Must be your old age that confused you Bob 

[Filo]

BST, I bet your 7 year old has got up this morning after his little tantrum last night, full of beans and optimism unlike some of the manic depressives on here

[bobjimwilly]

That the defensive and recruitment failings fall on PDs head, that the budget wasnt used too effectively.

Sometimes people can disagree with your points, highlight a few of our weaknesses and argue whos to blame - its a football forum, it would be a barren and dull place to be if it didnt have people airing their complaints, moans and gripes.

So you've made your first ever positive post BST, and your playground goons might laugh at your condescending snipes, but theres no harm in disagreeing and my points have been clear as day.

Must be your old age that confused you Bob 

So clear that none of us can recognise them you mean? Enlighten us, make them again please, for us (30 year) old gits

[graingrover]

BST   Top opening post

BobG .. Yes it is symptomatic but sadly more of 'defeatism' than lack of education.Society now has several generation layers that don't know about the courage and fight that brought the country from the jaw of defeat to victory.Not only does the fight seem to have gone but defeatism and negative non participative criticism is the order of the day for many .

[The Red Baron]

He's tired and a bit disappointed at the defeat today, so he's had a little tantrum at bedtime.

But f*** me, he is less fraught and emotional than some of you so-called adults.

I've read over and over again that Dickov is shit, the Board is shit and we have been shit all season. I'm sick of hearing this mantra so I'm going to chuck some facts in, in the (probably vain) hope that one or two of you might read them and f***ing well engage whatever you have for brains.

1) The Board is shit and not backing Dickov. FACTS: We won L1 last season. We kept all bar 1 of the key players from that squad and added Forrester, Duffy, Khumalo, Wellens, Robinson, Macheda, Wabara, Stevens and Turnbull. What more did people expect the Board to do in terms of backing the manager?

2) We've been shit all season, not making chances and crap at the back. FACTS: In the first 10 games this season, we played 8 sides who are currently 14th or higher. We picked up 12 points, scored 10 and conceded 12. Was that shit? Was our defence shit? We're we punch less going forward? If you answer "yes" to any of those, please explain what you consider to be an acceptable run of form.

3) FACT: As of today, SIX of the first 11 for most of that run are injured (seven if you include Brown who is nowhere near match fit) two have been recalled from loan and a tenth is hawking himself to the highest bidder.

Our entire first choice defence from earlier in the season is unavailable, as is our first choice central midfield partnership and our three first choice strikers.

Tell me exactly how we are supposed to cope with that, given that we have been unable to sign new players whilst this loss of players has been going on? We're we supposed to have another 8-9 Championship-standard players sat in reserve waiting to fill in as necessary? Eh?

We've lost today. We've played very, very poorly. It happens. But f*** me, the reaction if some of you lot! I'm embarrassed to be associated with some of the infantile tantrums going on here.

BST. I agree with a lot of your points about the Board, the football we played earlier this season and the injury list. Until yesterday I've been happy to defend Dickov, but I can't any longer. Your seven year old could have come up with a more convincing tactical plan to beat a Stevenage side who, lest we forget, are bottom of League One.

The cold facts are these. Since we beat QPR our record is as follows: DLLLLDLL. Even allowing for the injuries, you can't begin to defend a record like that and it is worth pointing out that Millwall recently fired their manager after only three successive losses.

In any case, I think the injuries are a bit of a smokescreen. I'm much more concerned by the way we play. We operate at too slow a tempo, we play too narrow (even with two wingers in the side) and there is far too much reliance on hoofing the ball up to a lone striker. If they do practice defending and taking set-pieces in training then they obviously don't do them very well.

I think he's probably aware that he's in trouble because of his scathing attack on the players after the game. Not that they don't deserve it, but when a manager does this IN PUBLIC it is usually to switch attention away from his shortcomings. And anyway, haven't we heard it all before after Middlesbrough, Ipswich etc, when the performances were equally dire to that served up yesterday?

IMHO Dickov is fortunate to be working for owners who are not by nature trigger-happy because at nearly any other club he'd be down the road by now. The question for the owners is this- do they entrust any funds earmarked for January to a manager with the tactical awareness of a corner flag and questionable powers of motivation, or do they get rid and give someone else the opportunity to rescue us from what looks like almost certain relegation at the moment?

[BillyStubbsTears]

TRB

Certainly we played at far too slow a pace yesterday. I've supported Woods, but I thought he was dreadful yesterday. He demanded everything in midfield but then sucked any tempo out if every move. It was reminiscent of the very worst performances under O'Driscoll, where it was all about control and safety, with no-one taking a risk.

That said, I really do not believe that that is Dickov's policy. Prior to the injury apocalypse, we were extremely dynamic going forward. Quite the opposite. We were wonderfully up tempo in some of the early matches (Blackburn, Wigan, Huddersfield) and even as recently as last weekend against QPR we played at a superb pace. Dickov has shown a preference for the modern style of full-back who is more of an attacker than a defender (Wabara and Young for example, reminded me of poor-man's versions of Glenn Johnson and Kyle Walker).

And I simply can't buy the easy line that "injuries have had an influence but..." The injuries and loan recalls plus Wellens's situation are devastating. We have six guaranteed starters out injured, including the entire physical presence in the side (Jones, Husband, Keegan, Brown). The three first choice strikers and leading scorers are all out. The entire first choice defence from the (successful) start of the season is unavailable. The first choice central midfield pairing are both unavailable.

This season, finishing 21st was always going to be counted as a success. We have been lower than that just once. Given the current circumstances, it baffles me that you conclude that Divkov is lucky to still be in a job.

[Standanista]

The Board had plenty of time to "do something about it", in putting together a squad with enough depth to compete at this level.

[River Don]

The Board had plenty of time to "do something about it", in putting together a squad with enough depth to compete at this level.

Well yes but even JR said at the start of the season that he thought we had put a squad together that was good enough to keep us in this league.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Stan me old spadger.

The evidence suggests that the Board and manager DID put a squad together that had enough depth to compete at this level.

What they didn't do was to put a squad together that had enough depth to compete at this level when almost all the first choice XI were missing.

Do you reckon they should have covered that possibility?

[The Red Baron]

TRB

Certainly we played at far too slow a pace yesterday. I've supported Woods, but I thought he was dreadful yesterday. He demanded everything in midfield but then sucked any tempo out if every move. It was reminiscent of the very worst performances under O'Driscoll, where it was all about control and safety, with no-one taking a risk.

That said, I really do not believe that that is Dickov's policy. Prior to the injury apocalypse, we were extremely dynamic going forward. Quite the opposite. We were wonderfully up tempo in some of the early matches (Blackburn, Wigan, Huddersfield) and even as recently as last weekend against QPR we played at a superb pace. Dickov has shown a preference for the modern style of full-back who is more of an attacker than a defender (Wabara and Young for example, reminded me of poor-man's versions of Glenn Johnson and Kyle Walker).

And I simply can't buy the easy line that "injuries have had an influence but..." The injuries and loan recalls plus Wellens's situation are devastating. We have six guaranteed starters out injured, including the entire physical presence in the side (Jones, Husband, Keegan, Brown). The three first choice strikers and leading scorers are all out. The entire first choice defence from the (successful) start of the season is unavailable. The first choice central midfield pairing are both unavailable.

This season, finishing 21st was always going to be counted as a success. We have been lower than that just once. Given the current circumstances, it baffles me that you conclude that Divkov is lucky to still be in a job.

BST

You seem to be implying that due to the injury/ availability situation we were incapable of putting out a team that could compete with the bottom side in League One yesterday. I find that worrying, but when I consider again that the team we fielded included Turnbull, Quinn, Stevens, Furman, Duffy and Cotterill, plus a less than 100% fit Brown, I have to disagree with that analysis.

What did it for me was that after a first half in which our play was listless, to put it politely, there was no attempt by the manager to change personnel, tactics or formation. If anything, we were even more limp during the first ten minutes of the second. Then, after we'd gone behind, he finally made changes, though somehow he decided to leave Woods on the field. I've criticised SO'D, Saunders and Flynn in the past for waiting too long to change things, and in fact I was pleased when at Reading Dickov made an early change to address a serious problem. Yesterday cried out for a similar approach, but when it came it was too little, too late.

I accept that Dickov was let down badly by his players yesterday. Several of them carried on as though the game was a particularly low-key pre-season friendly. But you have to ask this: where was the fighting spirit that carried us through last season? Take that away and we were an average League One side. On yesterday's evidence, we were a bottom of the table League One side.

It makes me think that what some of those Oldham fans said about Dickov was right.

[BillyStubbsTears]

TRB

I'm implying nothing of the sort. I have already said that I thought yesterday's performance was dreadful. The circumstances do not make yesterday acceptable or excusable.

My issue is in drawing general conclusions from that particular match.

So yes, yesterday was awful and unacceptable. But I do not belief that, on balance, we have under performed in general this season.

Anyway, we agree about Woods yesterday, I too was stunned that he stayed on. That said, Furman seemed to have the red mist descending again, and it may well be that Dickov removed him to prevent him being f**king daft again.