We think we have problems.

[newyankee]

 If you are one of those like me who thinks we have manager who is out of his depth, who is totally inept and who has very little tactical intelligence, spare a thought for Manchester United fans.

 David Moyes has done far worse than Dickov, he has taken a Premiership winning side ( with the same squad) to the depths of despair. He has turned players with guts and determination into shadows of their former selves.

 They have no belief now in their own abilities, he seems to have coached that out of them. It will be interesting to see if the Man U board puts up with things for much longer. I know they have a record of giving people a chance but they are becoming the easy team to beat in the Premiership.

 They are in a worse position to us, but we also have a League Championship winning team being led by a manager who has little idea of how to win. In the end, a manager is judged on his wins, not how nice a person he is or any other characteristic you may care to mention, he is judged by performance.

 In both cases, but to a lesser degree  the performances of their teams do not match the faith being put in them by owners and fans alike. 

 
 

[mushRTID]

Great to witness though!

[Tokyos Boot]

Its a good case in the old players vs managers argument....

Just how much impact can a manager have on a players attitude and thus his ability?

People say PD hasnt got a team or resources but if Fergie had this side would we be in this position? Its something that always intrigues me.

[newyankee]

I agree mush but it is evident we have two teams with the same problem, irrespective of how you feel about United. We are both doomed unless something is done by the powers that be.

In United's case they have the money to pay up Moyes and to bring in someone else. We don't have that luxury, so let's get rid, but bring Flynn and Jones back till the end of the season.

Maybe Dickov's problem is having a head coach ( Butler) who has not been there, hasn't got the tee shirt and maybe doesn't have the trust of the players.

 Both teams need to do something soon to turn around their seasons.

[Donnywolf]

Great to witness though!

See you are gonna win F*** all as usual thread in off topic

[coventryrover]

Spare a thought for utd fans? Ha ha ha ha

[mushRTID]

The problem is we have a small budget with many injuries.  Our first 11 can stay up which is our goal.

their problem is they have a high budget and bar Rooney, RVP and De gea, average players considering their goal - winning the league. They have bigger problems I think.

[Donnywolf]

 If you are one of those like me who thinks we have manager who is out of his depth, who is totally inept and who has very little tactical intelligence, spare a thought for Manchester United fans.

 David Moyes has done far worse than Dickov, he has taken a Premiership winning side ( with the same squad) to the depths of despair. He has turned players with guts and determination into shadows of their former selves.

 They have no belief now in their own abilities, he seems to have coached that out of them. It will be interesting to see if the Man U board puts up with things for much longer. I know they have a record of giving people a chance but they are becoming the easy team to beat in the Premiership.

 They are in a worse position to us, but we also have a League Championship winning team being led by a manager who has little idea of how to win. In the end, a manager is judged on his wins, not how nice a person he is or any other characteristic you may care to mention, he is judged by performance.

 In both cases, but to a lesser degree  the performances of their teams do not match the faith being put in them by owners and fans alike. 

 
 

However they were already a spent force and had been for a few Seasons ... Purple face was hanging in there for ANY Trophy so he could get out at the top

Man City did them in that THRILLING  game v QPR (Thanks to J Barton for getting himself sent off by the way) and that should have been that. Man City should have won the Premier League for a few Seasons BUT that jammy Ferguson managed to manage "them" to another Title and then baled asap

Rovers on the other hand came from a Division lower and are trying but still wanting so I am less perturbed by them and Dickov should not be compared to Moyes really but HEY I would love to play them next Season !

[dickos1]

Don't think they were jammy, they pissed it last season

[nortikorner]

( If you are one of those like me who thinks we have manager who is out of his depth, who is totally inept and who has very little tactical intelligence,)
Wins against BLACKBURN,SHEFF WEDS,LEICESTER,DRAWS Against, Wigan , Hudderfield, Notts Forest,Birmingham
not bad start then injuries come on give the Manager a chance rtid

[newyankee]

You forgot a win against QPR, but it is still not good enough to keep us from being relegated without there is a big change. In my opinion, Dickov is not capable of making that change. It's no good leaving it until it is impossible.

[andysly]

Yesterday was the first time I even thought about PDs position, due to the total lack of effort and heart shown by our side.
The manager can't magic better players out of thin air, or cure the injured but he should be able to instill some fire into what he has got at his disposal.

While talking of Rob Jones, where is he, heard nothing of him for ages. Thought he'd be great on the bench, just glaring at some our slackers to get them motivated.

[dickos1]

Get majority of players back, we will be fine, we've proven all season were good enough, it's only the last month we've struggled significantly and that can only be attributed to our injuries

[LincsRover]

Probably the most supported team in the world, turning millions of pounds profit worldwide, 75000 fans at every game, Champions league knock out stage and have TLO Rooney, van Persie et al to score goals for them. Add in that they could get and afford pretty much any manager in the world - and yet they stick with Moyes?? Why??

Maybe they know that he will come good given a bit of time? Maybe they're willing to have a poor season to invest for the future in a manager who will be there for years. Maybe if they'd got rid of Fergie after one bad season they wouldn't have won all the league titles and cups they've won with him?? Maybe teams change managers after a few bad results and lose their way because of it? (Think west brom, Tottenham and so many others!).

Maybe PD will come good given time and support from the board and the fans - we can't get any manager in the world like Man U - we have a limited list of potential bosses either lurking in the lower reaches of the FL or one of the list who are rolled out for every vacancy (Megson, Cotterill etc....).

No, I'll take PD for now, JR thought he was best man for the job and we've had some great results and performances (and some very poor!). But he's still learning and we can still have a great season with a decent run of results.

Do we behave like Man Utd and give our manager every chance to succeed or like Spurs, Chelsea ........insert most teams less consistently successful than Man Utd ......... Get rid after a bad run, whether or not there are reasons outside the manager.

I hate Man Utd as much as the next non-Man U supporter but I admire what they've achieved and would give anything to see Donny have a tenth of their success!

Give PD time and get behind the team I say!   
      

[RedJ]

Thing is though, he isn't stepping up into a bigger, more difficult league is he.

He's got the champions of England and he's flopping badly. Dickov is taking Champions of League One up into a division where we all knew we'd struggle. Anything else was always going to be a bonus.

I have no idea how you can even draw parallels between what's going on at Old Trafford and here...

[BobG]

I'm surprised he took the job tbh. Why would anyone at all ever want to follow in Big Noses' steps? It's just like last time: Frank O'Farrell could do nowt with Matt Busby's team either. It even applied to Brian Clough at Leeds for goodness sake! The players then, and now, were used to one guy. They were used to one way of playing, one set of behaviours. Change the manager, new ways, new times, and the old guard don't like it one bit. Think what TommY Doc did at Utd after Frank? Think what whoever it was at Leeds did after Cloughie. If Moyes ships out most of the current lot he'll be fine. They've been past it for a while anyway - especially the midfield. If he doesn't ship 'em out, he'll end up being sacked.

BobG

[BillyStubbsTears]

Bob

I thought Cloughie's replacement won the European Cup?

[BobG]

No. I mean Cloughie going to Elland Road. He lasted less than 5 minutes. Johnny Giles and co sorted him out quick time. The Old Guard were having none of his new ways.

Bob

[BillyStubbsTears]

Yep Bob. I'm talking about Leeds. They became Champions of Europe under Jimmy Armfield.

[wilts rover]

Yes, just like at Liverpool with Shankly, Paisely, Fagan & Dalglish or Chelsea, with Mourinho and ...lots of other blokes, or Everton even, no chance Martinez would ever be as successful as Moyes....

[Lytham Rover]

Yep Bob. I'm talking about Leeds. They became Champions of Europe under Jimmy Armfield.

(Allegedly)

[RedJ]

Yes, just like at Liverpool with Shankly, Paisely, Fagan & Dalglish or Chelsea, with Mourinho and ...lots of other blokes, or Everton even, no chance Martinez would ever be as successful as Moyes....

To be fair, didn't Liverpool promote from within for years after Shankly? Didn't go wrong until Sounness, but then he's not exactly a good manager...

[GazLaz]

£200m wiped off their value as well due to their recent run. Not getting Jose in for a few years as a buffer was a terrible move. They were never going to go from one long term success to another.

[pib]

I don't think David Moyes is as bad as some are making out.

Their squad is nowhere near as good as most of the teams they're supposed to be competing with. The fear factor has gone with Ferguson, and so the current team they've got is playing just about to its level.

It's still piss funny though. The bewildered faces of their fans looking around Old Trafford for some sort of divine intervention every time they get beat as if to say: "This can't happen to Manchester United!"

[RedJ]

It kind of reminds me of another United's fall from grace, albeit without the massive financial repercussions (yet, at least).

[The Red Baron]

Don't think they were jammy, they pissed it last season

They only won it last season because their main rivals were in disarray for one reason or another- and because van Persie stayed fit. Fergie knew they were in decline- look at their performances in Europe last season- and judged his exit to perfection.

It was a difficult one for Moyes, because if he'd turned down the United move he'd have been accused of lacking ambition. In any case, he has a 6 year contract so I'm assuming the Board want him to build for the long term- even if it means a couple of trophyless seasons in the meantime.

Moyes didn't help himself by not being assertive enough in the last transfer window and the January window is never a good one for buyers (funnily enough, unless you're Harry Redknapp!) so what he needs to do is have a clear-out in the summer and make several big signings for next season.

Mind you, it is quite funny to see the bewildered looks on the United fans' faces as they suffer another defeat just before they head off south down the M6. At this rate some of them will be thinking of supporting their local clubs.