Graeme-Le-Saux Article. a must read imho.

[jucyberry]

http://reflectionsasia.wordpress.com/2007/09/11/graeme-le-saux-how-gay-slurs-almost-wrecked-my-career/

I saw this on twitter, it is a beautifully written, powerful account of his treatment by the prehistoric knuckle dragging homophobes in the terraces, his own team and his opponents on the field.

No wonder young footballers daren't come out, sadly the game doesn't seem to have moved on at all and that is shameful.

[Mike_F]

That's a really well-written piece. Fortunately the times do seem to be changing at last.

[DubaiRover]

Hardly surprising when we are brought up to hate, it was difficult for le saux, imagine how difficult it still is for gay players. When I was at school we were hating 'niggers' they were rapists, drug dealers, thieves, robbers, everything that was bad in life, now its the eastern europeans and Muslims, Im just glad I have always questioned everything and not listened to the haters.

[River Don]

A bit sad really that Thomas Hitzlsperger still only felt able to come out this week once he retired from the game. There must be something like at least a hundred gay professional footballers playing at any one time in the UK. So far only 4 have felt able to be open about it.

[GazLaz]

Le Saux brought on trouble by how he dealt with it. People could tell it wound him up. Calling someone gay who isn't is the same as people calling Billy Sharp a fat bas**rd when he isn't. Fowler used to get chants about being a coke head that's why he snorted the touch line. If you put yourself in a high profile position you put yourself out there for stick.

If someone is hammering him for being something he's not why does it bother him? Anyone who's worked in a blokes environment or played in a blokes team environment must have been subject to plenty of ribbing. I worked with a lad once and he always turned up with flip flops on and hair band in, and he got dogs abuse but that's what happens. He took it and gave as much back as he got.

Did Le Saux's team mates actually think he had sex with men? I'd say probably not. Did they enjoy watching him get wound up and think he was an easy target for a laugh?? Probably yes.

[Mike_F]

Aye and that's how bullies operate. Pick on a weak spot and keep picking and picking away. Victims deal with it in different ways. Some shrug it off, others bottle it up and then go into a violent rage. Others just get fed up and kill themselves. But as long as it's a laugh for those who enjoy the wind-up it's all ok isn't it?

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Exactly Mike and this can happen very close to home sadly, even without bullying the stigma can have a massive effect.  So I'm not sure that just banter is justifiable.  Nobody knows the effect any of it can have on people and even the negative stigma of it can have an effect.  Very sad.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1490549/Teenager-is-found-dead-after-taking-part-in-reality-TV.html

[GazLaz]

Where's the line between harmless banter and bullying then? Is there one? Perhaps Le Saux should have revealed a tshirt saying "Gay lad from the Channel Islands" when he scored.

[roversontheup]

There isn't a clear line and that's the difficulty some people find. 
I've belonged to many sports teams where there has been great banter and some ribbing but it was light hearted.  We never went on and on and on to someone about the same issue.  We knew when to stop and when it was a sore point.  If we recognised a sore point then the ribbing stopped and the support to that person was 100%.
Banter has to be a two way thing and fun for both sides.  When it isn't it is just a form of bullying.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Where's the line between harmless banter and bullying then? Is there one?

You must think there's one so why don't you tell us when 'banter' stops being 'banter' and becomes 'abuse' in your opinion...?

[GazLaz]

When what you say is actually meant and not said just for a reaction.

[roversontheup]

I think you are so wrong if that's how you see it Gazlaz.  You could speak to every person that has ever been subjected to verbal bullying and it will all have been delivered to provoke a reaction.  It's not banter, it's not funny for the person on the receiving end and in many cases it causes distress.  And as has been alluded to, that distress can have dramatic consequences.

[Mike_F]

I didn't want to come across as a killjoy above. I'm all for a bit of friendly puss-taking amongst mates but it's the way an individual is repeatedly singled out and becomes the target for a big group to pick on that leads to the feeling if isolation. When it's one against everyone else there's nowhere to turn and that's when the dangerous internalising starts.

[jucyberry]

Aye and that's how bullies operate. Pick on a weak spot and keep picking and picking away. Victims deal with it in different ways. Some shrug it off, others bottle it up and then go into a violent rage. Others just get fed up and kill themselves. But as long as it's a laugh for those who enjoy the wind-up it's all ok isn't it?

I hate bullies with a passion, what to them might seem a bit of a giggle can absolutely destroy someone who hasn't got the tools to cope with the constant drip,drip.drip of being picked on.

It isn't a point of manning up or just taking it for a bit of banter, it can grind you down until that just isn't possible.

My ex husband worked on a building site. Let's face it there can be some total Kitsons in any trade but that seems to be one of the hardest. He used to be actually physically sick every morning before he left the house.. For two years he coped as best he could.The last straw was when they held him down just before the Easter break and dry shaved his moustache off..

By the time the two weeks break was over he had had a complete breakdown. they destroyed him.

Sometimes it just isn't that easy to grin and bear the 'harmless banter'.

[jucyberry]

Le Saux brought on trouble by how he dealt with it. People could tell it wound him up. Calling someone gay who isn't is the same as people calling Billy Sharp a fat bas**rd when he isn't. Fowler used to get chants about being a coke head that's why he snorted the touch line. If you put yourself in a high profile position you put yourself out there for stick.

If someone is hammering him for being something he's not why does it bother him? Anyone who's worked in a blokes environment or played in a blokes team environment must have been subject to plenty of ribbing. I worked with a lad once and he always turned up with flip flops on and hair band in, and he got dogs abuse but that's what happens. He took it and gave as much back as he got.

Did Le Saux's team mates actually think he had sex with men? I'd say probably not. Did they enjoy watching him get wound up and think he was an easy target for a laugh?? Probably yes.

Were his team mates total w**kers?... Absolutely.

[GazLaz]

I've been thinking about this line. There has to be one. I always got stick for being massive when I was a kid but I didn't see it as bullying, even from the older kids at school I just saw it as a chance to give a bit back. Different people are different I suppose, some people are more sensitive than others.