Barnsley fans yesterday v Forest

[Glyn_Wigley]

Why should we look like diks for chanting scab,scab to forest fans, we are just reminding them that what the Nottinghamshire miners did in the strike was wrong

THIS is the tragedy of the Miner's Strike, that thrity years later people are still believing Scargill's BS. Nottinghamshire voted not to strike, so they couldn't. Scargill could have sorted that in minutes by calling a national ballot. How about asking why he didn't try and unite the workforce and lay the blame at his door where it belongs?

[roversdude]

But there was a ballot for industrial action up to and including strike action the previous year

[Glyn_Wigley]

But there was a ballot for industrial action up to and including strike action the previous year

Which were superceded by the subsequent ballots...or else why bother having new votes if you don't need them?

[nice one rovers]

If you weren't about during the strike then you should not be posting on here about it,you do not know what it was like,Nottinghamshire miners going back to work on the first day of the strike ,fighting with fellow miners who wanted to prove a point that closing pits was just a ploy from the conservative government to beak down the num.so don't say on here that its only football related posts that should be posted . The miners strike will never be forgotten and what tha SCABS DID FROM NOTTINGHAM WILL NEVER BE FORGOTTEN EITHER.

Well said. This should be the last word.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Nottinghamshire miners going back to work on the first day of the strike

Of course they did, they couldn't do anything else once their ballot result came in. They were never on strike - nobody, not themselves, not the NUM nor Scargill himself called then out on strike. You can only be a strikebreaker if you work in defiance a vote to strike. They didn't do that. If Scargill had had the b*llocks to call a national vote they'd have agreed with the result and gone on strike along with everybody else if the result was for a that. For Nottinghamshire to defy the result of the ballot that did take place would have been an illegal strike.

This is Scargill's legacy - mining communities still at each other's throats because of HIS actions.

[roversdude]

Glyn what subsequent votes, in the mists of time I can't remember these only the national vote

[shaun from thorne]

Glyn, The year before the strike the num had a ballot to give the union the power to call an all out strike on pit closure issues,the ballot was unanimous,becuse the nots miners did not aggree with this a year later they all called for another ballot which was never going to happen.love him or hate him arthur scargill quoted that pit closures we going to happen untill there were none left,there are only a few left now.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Glyn what subsequent votes, in the mists of time I can't remember these only the national vote

There wasn't a national ballot, that's why Nottinghamshire refused to go on  strike, as there was no mandate. Scargill refused to hold one. THAT'S what split the communities and crippled the strike from day one.

"The issue of whether a ballot was needed for a national strike had been complicated by the actions of previous NUM leader Joe Gormley. When wage reforms were rejected by two national ballots, Gormley declared that each region could decide on these reforms on its own accord; his decisions had been upheld by courts on appeal. Scargill did not call a ballot for national strike action, perhaps due to uncertainty over the outcome. Instead, he attempted to start the strike by allowing each region to call its own strikes, imitating Gormley's strategy over wage reforms; it was argued that 'safe' regions should not be allowed to ballot other regions out of jobs. This decision was upheld by another vote five weeks into the strike. Many miners, especially at the threatened pits, were also opposed to a ballot because of the time required to organise one and the urgency of the situation arising from the accelerated closure programme. There was a fear that strike supporters would refuse to take part in a ballot. Critics point out that Scargill's policy of letting each region decide seemed inconsistent with the threatened expulsion of the Nottinghamshire branch after 20,000 out of 27,000 miners in the county voted against the strike."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_miners%27_strike_%281984%E2%80%9385%29#Action_begins

[roversdude]

Strange I remember voting in a national ballot

[Glyn_Wigley]

Glyn, The year before the strike the num had a ballot to give the union the power to call an all out strike on pit closure issues,the ballot was unanimous,becuse the nots miners did not aggree with this a year later they all called for another ballot which was never going to happen.love him or hate him arthur scargill quoted that pit closures we going to happen untill there were none left,there are only a few left now.

No mention of a national vote on that Google page, do you know of a link to something about it?

Scargill might have been right about the Tory's policy, but it doesn't make the self-centred way he used the union right.

[Tokyos Boot]

"Family club" is a term I despise.

Completely agree - football as a working class sport has completely lost its identity, and we're one of the worst culprits for it in my opinion!

[silent majority]

Right, I'm going to lock this thread unless it goes back on topic.

We don't want a debate on the rights and wrongs of the miners strike, take that off topic.

However I do believe a debate on the miners strike and how it fits with football support is relevant, they are both community issues.

[shaun from thorne]

I voted in a national ballot in 83 giving the NUM power to call an all out strike over pit closures and so did the rest of the country

[shaun from thorne]

Whats up Sm is it because its more interesting than all the other posts on here

[roversdude]

Shaun as did I but it has gone slightly off topic - unfortunately some people do not know the truth hence I felt I had to mention the votes
In relation to OP the banner has the same implications in and around Doncaster and well recall chants of scabs mainly against Mansfield

[silent majority]

No, it's because it's a football forum.

[shaun from thorne]

But it happens at football and it always gets a good debate which must be good for the forum.....isn't it

[Glyn_Wigley]

I voted in a national ballot in 83 giving the NUM power to call an all out strike over pit closures and so did the rest of the country

There seems to be no mention of any such ballot anywhere on the whole internet. Not even any mention of Scargill claiming one as a mandate for the strike and I certainly don't remember him doing so at the time either...

I would be interested in finding out about it though, and why it wasn't given as a mandate at the time of the strike itself...

[PDX_Rover]

Goal not dole...

[silent majority]

Glyn, are you not paying attention?

[Glyn_Wigley]

I'm just trying to learn about a ballot I'd not heard of before in relation to the strike.

However, until someone can give me a link to the details of when it was held and what the actual wording of the ballot was I'll have to assume that it was not relevant to the strike given that the NUM itself didn't invoke it when calling a strike in 1984.

[BigColSutherland]

Glyn, are you not paying attention?

Boom! Sit down Glyn.

[MrFrost]

I see more smoke grenades were let off by away fans yesterday, didn't see any ejections. Bet if one of our fans set one off they'd be kicked out.

[wilts rover]

Glyn

March 1983

Scargill's strike strategy

It is important to understand in this context that the National Union of Mineworkers was a federation, which is to say that it was composed of a number of separate district unions each based on a regional coal field. So whilst there was a national NUM organization there were also quite separate and autonomous regional NUMs.

In order to declare a national strike, Rule 43 of the constitution of the national union required a ballot to be held and a 55% majority majority in favour of a strike. Scargill knew or suspected that he would not be able to win a ballot in favour of a strike on the issue of pit closures. (Two previous national ballots, the most recent in March 1983, had failed to win the required majority in favour of a strike over this very issue.) He thus devised an alternative strategy. Since Rule 41 of the union's constitution allowed the NUM national executive to declare official any strike called in one of its constituent areas, his plan was to allow the more militant constituent unions to go on strike, declare their strikes official, and then endeavour to spread these local strikes nationally.

http://everything2.com/title/Miners+Strike+of+1984-1985

[roversdude]

There was a ballot late 1983 for action up to and including strike action that was passed - this led to initially an overtime ban

[Glyn_Wigley]

There was a ballot late 1983 for action up to and including strike action that was passed - this led to initially an overtime ban

Wilts Rover's link says it wasn't passed....

...which would make the Notts miners right.

[Albert Trousers]

Much discussion on the dingle forum about this thread as well. http://bbs.barnsleyfc.org.uk/showthread.php?206577-Coal-Not-Dole-banner-mentioned-amp-pictured-on-Pikeys-Forum-link

[GazLaz]

Saying people don't know about things that happened before they were born is nonsense.

[gillinghamrover]

It's a little bit sad in my opinion. For some perspective it happened before I was even born.

A little bit sad that you are dismissing a huge part of local history which affected the whole community in various ways back then in 84/85. Is it sad we stand around the cenotaph every 11/11, you weren't around in both world wars either.

[CraigyBoy]

Why is football the only sport to have such stupid social rivalries? Don't see it in Rugby Union, Cricket, Boxing, Tennis, Netball, Basketball, etc etc etc. The fact that I go to watch Doncaster Rovers doesn't mean I have any other thing in common with anyone else in that stadium - and I certainly don't want them speaking for me about anything at all. In fact, for a while now I've been struggling with the tribal nonsense being spouted by footy fans - where I sit you can hear racist, sexist, homophobic language, from time to time, and it's not pleasant - perhaps this is a contributory factor to the dwindling crowds or the inability of the club to grow it's fanbase?

The miners strike was an appalling social period for South Yorkshire and many other areas - and I'm not a tory voter - but the fact remains that bringing the coal out of the ground cost more money than it was worth (Which is why the coal fields haven't been opened up again in the age of new technology and profit). What Thatcher and her lot did was to try and save money - what they didn't do was ensure entire areas were properly supported through the change.

Footy-wise, I've not been for a few games because I'm sick of hearing the same old thicko's shouting angry words at people a long way away for reasons which are still, to this day, unfathomable.