Just who does he think he is

[IC1967]

Ed Milliband does not want us to have a referendum on Europe. The pompous ass. He thinks he knows better than us. He is so out of touch it is untrue. OUT OF EUROPE NOW!!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26538420

[IDM]

If you disagree with his manifesto, vote for someone else. Simples.  If the party you vote for still doesn't propose such a referendum, petition your MP.

[IC1967]

It's pointless voting in Doncaster. You only have to look at the muppets we've got for MP's to know that the people of Doncaster would vote anyone into power if they were a member of the Labour party. I feel so disenfranchised that it makes my piss boil.

At least if we had a referendum my vote would actually mean something.

[RedJ]

Move to a more marginal seat then where your vote will matter more.

Let more people benefit from your wondrous tupperware round.

[IDM]

It's pointless voting in Doncaster. You only have to look at the muppets we've got for MP's to know that the people of Doncaster would vote anyone into power if they were a member of the Labour party. I feel so disenfranchised that it makes my piss boil.

At least if we had a referendum my vote would actually mean something.

Go out and campaign for a referendum, perhaps you may be able to persuade folks to agree with you.

[IC1967]

The majority of the population want a referendum. Ed does not. He thinks he knows best the plonker. No point me campaigning in Doncaster. The MP's have all the power and can ignore me.

[coventryrover]

The majority dont want a referendum...the majority can't be arsed.

Would be nice to have a balanced, fact driven argument but ukip and the right wing press have put paid to that

[IC1967]

Not only do the majority want a referendum a majority want to leave the EU.

[coventryrover]

Not only do the majority want a referendum a majority want to leave the EU.

I don't think so.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Yawn....


Err. Sorry. Couldn't help it.

Wrong again Mick

http://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/03/11/how-people-would-vote-eu-referendum/

[IC1967]

Thank you for your post Billy. You clearly demonstrate that over a period of years people have been in the majority for leaving. Surely you don't put so much store by one months figures from one polling organisation when it is obvious the long term trend supports what I say.

[IDM]

Not only do the majority want a referendum a majority want to leave the EU.

How do you know, if there's been no referendum on the matter?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Mick

Go Google the word "majority". I think you're confusing it with "plurality".

Or was that another one of your cheeky little "mistakes"?

[coventryrover]

People haven't been in the majority for leaving.They can tell the pollsters anything they want then go vote the other way. Polls are an indicator, it is naive to think they reflect what is likely to happen.

Come the crunch and we actually have a debate based on fats, not scaremongering, the outcome of a euro debate would not be so crystal clear as you think

[IC1967]

It's naive to think that everyone lies to pollsters. These polls are an excellent indicator of how people feel. Ed knows people would vote to leave that's why he won't risk it because he thinks he knows best the idiot.

[Hounslowrover]

The 1992 exit polls had a small Labour majority, or possibly a hung parliament, however, John Major won a majority. Apparently people didn't respond correctly, in fact they may have lied to the pollsters because they didn't want to admit voting Tory again. Admittedly not everyone lied, but enough did to make the poll flawed.

[IC1967]

I think you'll find the polls were accurate. It was Kinnock's antics at the Sheffield rally that convinced the public he wasn't Prime Minister material.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Mick

I think you'll actually find that every major polling company changed its methodology after the 92 election because they got it so badly wrong. Trust me. You don't know what you are talking about.

[IC1967]

Trust me. Kinnock blew it at Sheffield. He looked a right triumphalist Wally.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Here we go again and again and again. Nick's opinions operating in a fact-free zone.

Have a look here Mick. Look at the poll data and see what effect that Sheffield Rally had. Compare before rally and after rally polling figures.

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/historical-polls/voting-intention-1987-1992

PS. The rally was on 1st April.

[IC1967]

There is always a time lag after an event like Sheffield. On polling day people had the vision of Kinnock looking a right Wally in Sheffield in their minds and decided not to vote for him. Also you conveniently forget to mention the margin for error polling companies always give as a health warning.

[Dagenham Rover]

Mick

I think you'll actually find that every major polling company changed its methodology after the 92 election because they got it so badly wrong. Trust me. You don't know what you are talking about.

again

[IDM]

Don't forget also that in  this country you vote for the local MP in your constituency.  Yes of course your local vote will be influenced by which party you prefer to see win the country, but I would think folks would see beyond individual politicians.

Kinnock was a darn sight more credible than Michael Foot.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Night night Mick. Sleep tight.

[IC1967]

Kinnock was a darn sight more credible than Michael Foot.

That's not saying a lot though is it. Anyway here's some evidence for you from the Independent. Let's hope for once that the source isn't denigrated because it doesn't fit with the leftie view of life:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/rush-of-blood-was-kinnocks-downfall-1583723.html   

[IDM]

Anyway here's some evidence for you from the Independent. Let's hope for once that the source isn't denigrated because it doesn't fit with the leftie view of life:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/rush-of-blood-was-kinnocks-downfall-1583723.html   

What is your point here?  I am not disagreeing that Kinnock may have made a mistake, I can't remember everything that went on, I just remember him mainly coming across as a decent bloke and certainly a more likely PM than Foot.  Just an opinion, whether folks agree or not is fine.

[IC1967]

I happen to think Michael Foot was a far more honourable man than Kinnock. Foot had principles whether you agreed with him or not. Kinnock would have sold his soul to the devil to get elected. The public saw through him and realised he was untrustworthy. This is another reason why he lost the election.

[IDM]

Foot attended the Remembrance Day commemorations at the Cenotaph, as leader of a leading national political party, and looked like a tramp.  If he was attending as an individual, fair enough his attire would be irrelevant - representing Labour and all it stood for as leader, he lost a great deal of credibility.  That may only have been on the surface, but that's what a lot of potential voters would have noticed.

[IC1967]

He actually wore a very expensive coat purchased from Harrods and was complimented on his attire by the Royal Family.

[IDM]

He actually wore a very expensive coat purchased from Harrods and was complimented on his attire by the Royal Family.

That certainly was not made known at the time, so of course the immediate public perception of his attire was less than favourable.  Your point about Kinnock at Sheffield is to do with immediate public perception too isn't it?