Clegg v Farage debate

[IC1967]

As I've said before I'll answer anything as long as it isn't silly. You are being a silly Billy.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Night night Mick

[RedJ]

Nothing silly about asking when you last went to a Rovers game...

[Glyn_Wigley]

By joining the EU we made it much harder for us to trade with the rest of the world (including for us most importantly the Commonwealth).

That is so wrong it's breathtaking. Please, please show me how.

[IC1967]

That is so wrong it's breathtaking. Please, please show me how.

You are so dopey at times. OK I'll spell it out seeing as you can't work out the blindingly obvious for yourself. By being part of the EU we get trade benefits such as a lack of import tariffs. Countries that aren't part of the EU have import tariffs imposed on them. So for example we might want to trade with India with no import tariffs but because we're now part of the EU and India isn't then import tariffs restrict the amount of trade we can do.

Also countries that want to trade with the EU will have to meet all the bureaucratic restrictions that Brussels imposes. We wouldn't have to if we could sort our own trade deals out. Duh.

[BillyStubbsTears]

But Mick. I thought you wanted us to EXPORT more to the rest of the world, not import more from them?

What was your favourite Rovers match of the last 3 years by the way?

[Glyn_Wigley]

So for example we might want to trade with India with no import tariffs but because we're now part of the EU and India isn't then import tariffs restrict the amount of trade we can do.

Goods of Indian origin are part of the GSP trade agreement. Duh.

As I've already said, I'm specialist in the this area and you know **** all about it. Please, for your own self-respect, stop proving it.

[IC1967]

If we make it easier for other countries to be able to export to us then it makes it easier for us to export to them. Duh.

I used India as a hypothetical example. It is fact that we could make it easier for other countries to export to us if we weren't restricted by the EU. Duh. 

[BillyStubbsTears]

Mick

I make it easy for Tesco to sell to me.

I went down there with a bag full of Panini sticker books and asked them to buy them off me.

They told me to f*** off.

[Glyn_Wigley]

I used India as a hypothetical example. It is fact that we could make it easier for other countries to export to us if we weren't restricted by the EU. Duh. 

Give me a non-hypothetical example then, as you want to deal in facts.

[IC1967]

Nigeria.

[Dagenham Rover]

Nigeria.

They are very good at exporting  emails offering me lots and lots of money, perhaps I should forward a few or better still ask the senders to contact you direct so you can expand your Gold Mines and Guitar Emporium  or even better set up a betterware franchise or you could even get into Avon 

[Glyn_Wigley]

Nigeria.

Another GSP country. Another massive fail on your part. I told you, you know **** all about it and you're so stupid you don't even realise it.

[IC1967]

So what. We could negotiate a better deal than GSP if we weren't hamstrung by the EU. Duh.

[Glyn_Wigley]

So what. We could negotiate a better deal than GSP if we weren't hamstrung by the EU. Duh.

Better deals than free trade on goods of these countries origin, negotiated by the EU as a trading partnership? So much for 'facts' then. Gobshite.

http://exporthelp.europa.eu/thdapp/display.htm?page=cd/cd_NewGSPAsOf2014.html&docType=main&languageId=EN

[IC1967]

So why have West African countries failed to agree on a trade deal with the EU after 10 years of talks? Duh.

[Glyn_Wigley]

So why have West African countries failed to agree on a trade deal with the EU after 10 years of talks? Duh.

Source. Because you've shown such an utter lack of understanding of the subject I don't believe you understand whatever it is you've found on Google.

And which West African countries are these that aren't already GSP countries and benefitting from free trade with the EU?

[IC1967]

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/03/29/uk-africa-eu-trade-idUKBREA2S0DJ20140329

The GSP isn't the be all and end all of everything.

Game, set and match.

[Glyn_Wigley]

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/03/29/uk-africa-eu-trade-idUKBREA2S0DJ20140329

The GSP isn't the be all and end all of everything.

Game, set and match.

Read it, it's the West African countries that are refusing full free trade, not the EU. Fool.

[IC1967]

Look it's very simple. Quite rightly West Africa is refusing full free trade because there would only be one winner and that is the EU. The EU negotiates as a bully boy and the poor African countries get the rough end of the deal.

The EU is large, but old-fashioned, bureaucratic, corrupt and inefficient. It still thinks Government knows best.

If we were able to negotiate our own deal it certainly wouldn't take us 10 years. We could then tailor the deal to suit each African country so they were happy and we were happy. Trying to get a one size fits all trade deal is ludicrous. No wonder it's taken 10 years and counting.

Outside the EU, we would be free to negotiate our own trade deals with countries like India, China, Japan, the US, Brazil and Australia. These are the growing regions of the world. EU rules prevent us from negotiating with these countries for ourselves. The EU does it for us. Size may give the EU negotiating clout, but the objectives of the negotiation are French and German, not British. We could make much better deals for ourselves, deals that suit British trade, not the trade of Continental Europe.

Sorted.

[IC1967]

I make it easy for Tesco to sell to me.

I went down there with a bag full of Panini sticker books and asked them to buy them off me.

They told me to f*** off.

I'm not surprised. You don't strike me as being very good at negotiating. Unless someone totally agrees with everything you say you don't want to know. Anyone that is happy for the EU to do it on our behalf is similarly condemned.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Let me get this right. The EU tries to impose conditions on smaller economies that are detrimental to those economies' interests. I assume that is what you mean by "The EU negotiates as a bully boy and the poor African countries get the rough end of the deal."

Right so far?

So, the logical consequence in Mickonomics is that the UK negotiates its own deals with countries like the USA, China and Japan. A small country negotiating with economic giants.

And then Mick tells us that we, as a country, should negotiate with each of the West African countries individually, tailoring our negotiations to suit each country.

See, if he's going to post links, Mick really ought to read them first.

"We need to negotiate an EPA that is beneficial to our sub-region and will contribute to the prosperity of our people," said Ghana's President John Mahama, who assumed the bloc's rotating chairmanship at the two-day summit.

"We can only do that united as a sub-region,"

Is that right or have I missed some important aspect of Mickonomics?

[IC1967]

So, the logical consequence in Mickonomics is that the UK negotiates its own deals with countries like the USA, China and Japan. A small country negotiating with economic giants.

You really are clueless. We are not a small country. In 2001 we were the fourth largest economy in the world. In 2014 we are still the seventh largest.

The EU is run for mainly for Germany's benefit. In 2001 they were the world's 3rd largest economy with a GDP of $1.9 (trillions of dollars). We were fourth at $1.5. Today Germany is the fourth largest economy with a GDP of $3.7 (overtaken only by China).

We have slipped to seventh with a GDP of $2.5. So as you can see the gap between us and Germany is increasing as we fall down the league tables. However we are still not a small country as you would have people believe. If we pull out of Europe there is no reason why we can't climb the league tables and eventually overtake Germany. If we carry on being hamstrung by the EU we will continue to fall down the league tables.

http://money.cnn.com/news/economy/world_economies_gdp/

[IC1967]

And then he tells us that we, as a country, should negotiate with each of the West African countries individually, tailoring our negotiations to suit each country.

Correct. It wouldn't take more than 10 years to conclude a deal (10 years of lost trade) and we could trade ethically instead of being part of a bloc that is trying to screw these poor countries as hard as they can. Where are your ethics man.

[IC1967]

See, if he's going to post links, he really ought to read them first.

"We need to negotiate an EPA that is beneficial to our sub-region and will contribute to the prosperity of our people," said Ghana's President John Mahama, who assumed the bloc's rotating chairmanship at the two-day summit.

"We can only do that united as a sub-region,"

Is that right or have I missed some important aspect of Mickonomics?

He obviously feels that when up against the might of the bully boy EU that these small economies only chance of getting anything like a reasonable deal is if they all club together. A perfectly reasonable point of view.

You then imply that because we are a small country (which patently we are not) we should also do the same and club together with the EU. Countries as diverse as Canada, Mexico, Australia and India all have smaller economies than ours, yet all manage somehow to trade with the EU and the world without being in the EU.

Are we so uniquely weak and useless that we cannot do the same? You obviously think so. I do not. 

You really show your total lack of comprehension for world trade. As a large economy we would carry plenty of clout with this sub region on our own. We could negotiate a deal with this sub region (and it wouldn't take over 10 years) and we could do individual deals with each country as well. We have a lot of history in Africa that would also be useful to us.

Game, set and match.

[IC1967]

Source. Because I've shown such an utter lack of understanding of the subject I don't believe I understand whatever it is you're on about.

Asking for the source shows to me that I know a lot more about the subject than you do. You called yourself an expert. I'll let the readers decide if they think you were right to make such an extravagant claim.

How on earth didn't you know that West African countries have failed to agree on a trade deal with the EU? The EU has only been trying to conclude this deal for the last 10 years. Duh.

[not on facebook]

Iam against the EU and Its stance on certian points with the main part
Been any country within the EU will never have 100 % controll Of Its boarders.

Just look how many eastern europeans have landed in uk for sole reason
That the UKs benafits system is far better.LBH how Much money will likes
Of Latvia pay into the EU?fvuk all When put against likes Of UK and germany.

But UK end  with all Their dead legs landing on Its shores wanting house and benafits.how many People Across EU land in Latvia claiming a house and benafits ....fcuk all for obvious reasons.

For every latvian that lands in UK and ends up on benafits,UK should be Able to bill Latvia
A fixed % for Their upkeep.same if a UK passport holder should ever end up in Latvia and claim
Benafits ,Latvia gets an upkeep payment from UK.

With a lot Of shit landing in UK from poland,Latvia,Bulgaria,Romania ,When i say shit i mean
The criminal element the streets are getting more and more unsafe to walk down.

Also how can any fcuker from say poland live in the uk and claim payments for Their kids back
In poland is beyond me.figures say about 43.000 kids that live out Of the  UK the parents are getting
Payments while they live in the UK





Russia must be happy fcukers after the Berlin Wall came down


God Help any country within the EU if they should ever have a gold rush within Its boarders ,as
Millions upon millions would land on Its shores wanting a claim

[IC1967]

You make many good points Oslo.

[The Red Baron]

For those following the Scottish Independence debate, every argument used by the Stay Together campaign is a dress rehearsal for the EU in-out referendum.

Those that smile when Alec Sammond is faced with Businesses such as RBS setting up companies and offices in England to mitigate the risks of independence, will face the same scenario with the EU referendum.

The tactics are not working, though, because the YES campaign is increasing its share of the vote. Where the No campaign has failed so far is in setting out the benefits of staying in the Union rather than the dis-benefits of leaving. There is a subtle difference.

Of course, the pro-EU camp may learn lessons from this. But if they simply bang on about "pulling up drawbridges" they will not succeed in swaying opinion.

[BigColSutherland]

Iam against the EU and Its stance on certian points with the main part
Been any country within the EU will never have 100 % controll Of Its boarders.

Just look how many eastern europeans have landed in uk for sole reason
That the UKs benafits system is far better.LBH how Much money will likes
Of Latvia pay into the EU?fvuk all When put against likes Of UK and germany.

But UK end  with all Their dead legs landing on Its shores wanting house and benafits.how many People Across EU land in Latvia claiming a house and benafits ....fcuk all for obvious reasons.

For every latvian that lands in UK and ends up on benafits,UK should be Able to bill Latvia
A fixed % for Their upkeep.same if a UK passport holder should ever end up in Latvia and claim
Benafits ,Latvia gets an upkeep payment from UK.

With a lot Of shit landing in UK from poland,Latvia,Bulgaria,Romania ,When i say shit i mean
The criminal element the streets are getting more and more unsafe to walk down.

Also how can any fcuker from say poland live in the uk and claim payments for Their kids back
In poland is beyond me.figures say about 43.000 kids that live out Of the  UK the parents are getting
Payments while they live in the UK





Russia must be happy fcukers after the Berlin Wall came down


God Help any country within the EU if they should ever have a gold rush within Its boarders ,as
Millions upon millions would land on Its shores wanting a claim

On a clear day you can see the whole of the UK from Oslo.