FA stands for .........

[silent majority]

This is how well it (doesn't) work in Germany.
http://www.wsc.co.uk/the-archive/923-Europe/598-the-killer-bs

That article is 7 years old.

A more current perspective here:

http://www.espnfc.com/blog/_/name/bundesliga/id/647?cc=5739

Suggests the system has worked "too well". Depending on your perspective of course.

Well, having read that it still says it's not working and that a feeder system, or loan system depending on your perspective, is the way forward. Hmmm, pretty much what we already have.

But having read both articles it's quite clear this brave new world for English football doesn't appear to be working as Greg Dyke would wish.

[drfcbenny625]

The thing is, these proposals won't help the national team one bit. The problem we have is in the scouting and the coaching. Until we value technical attributes over physical attributes we will continue to be crap. If it was as simple as just letting the youngsters getting experience then why not introduce a rule forcing the prem clubs to loan out a percentage of their youngsters, free of charge, to a club in the football league.

[The Red Baron]

My big concern is that the Premier League and the FA will use their financial muscle to force this wretched plan through.

[pib]

Yep. I'm guessing it's a possibility that they could hold the FL clubs to ransom over solidarity payments or something similar they're reliant on the PL/FA for.

[aidanstu]

I am fuming about this for a load of reasons and it just demonstrates the premier-scentric nature of our Football Association. The fact that the Football Conference board members have confirmed they were not even consulted reflects and reinforces the perceived FA's view of the lower league and the complete disregard for the supporters of their clubs.

Sky who are also Premier-Sentric have failed to interview anybody outside the FA, The Premier League or former Premiership players to gain their views.

Wouldn't it have been more simple and appropriate for the FA to just reconsider the work permit system, limit the number of non-EU players and enforce the fact that each premiership club had to play a certain number of home grown players within the first 11? This would have got round the fact that you can not stop EU players playing in England.

The whole thing stinks of Greg Dyke wanting being the ego-scentric sod he clearly is and his wish top leave his own legacy at what ever cost to lower league clubs.

we should also ask the question what happens to Premier league teams who are relegated, are they allowed to field a B side? i make the point again last night the FA are planning to franchise the premier league which, if this occurred, would answer that point. there will be no relegations/ promotions to or from the premiership in the future.

We and the rest of the football pyramid are slowing sleep walking into oblivion. Mark my words.

Ps that is me done with the Premier League, its filthy cash, the corrupt FA and Sky can consider my subscription cancelled.         

[silent majority]

Maybe it's time the Football League broke away from the PL?

[aidanstu]

Maybe it's time the Football League broke away from the PL?

That would suit the Premier league and the FA to the ground.

[drfc1951]

The Bolton chairman, a couple of years was talking about the championship becoming Premier2.There would be no promotion or relegation ,and only invited clubs in first season.Clubs like ours wouldnt be included ,but Sheff Utd and Coventry if they got their ground situation sorted would.

[Mr1Croft]

I for one welcome the report and see it is a positive step in English football.

Of course I don't necessarily agree with the proposals it lays out but I do commend the FA on finally making an attempt to change English football, in 2 months time when we have exited the World Cup after another unsuccessful campaign we will all be asking "what can we do to improve the National Squad?".

Clearly something needs to be done and I agree with the FA that we need to have the debate on this, not necessarily on "B" teams but on how we actually improve the amount of quality players we produce in our country. We keep hearing idealists bleating on about improving football at grassroots and the FA clearly see that as a key objective and continue to work on that but we do have to ask whether or not that is going to be enough.

What we have seen today is the FA come out and say the current situation is unacceptable and have challenged certain things that is wrong with the game such as the Bosman ruling and English football's ideology of looking overseas to improve their squad rather than home grown players. I won't bash them for that.

[Filo]

I for one welcome the report and see it is a positive step in English football.

Of course I don't necessarily agree with the proposals it lays out but I do commend the FA on finally making an attempt to change English football, in 2 months time when we have exited the World Cup after another unsuccessful campaign we will all be asking "what can we do to improve the National Squad?".

Clearly something needs to be done and I agree with the FA that we need to have the debate on this, not necessarily on "B" teams but on how we actually improve the amount of quality players we produce in our country. We keep hearing idealists bleating on about improving football at grassroots and the FA clearly see that as a key objective and continue to work on that but we do have to ask whether or not that is going to be enough.

What we have seen today is the FA come out and say the current situation is unacceptable and have challenged certain things that is wrong with the game such as the Bosman ruling and English football's ideology of looking overseas to improve their squad rather than home grown players. I won't bash them for that.

A debate needs contributions from all parties concerned, not just the ones with a benificial interest

[Mr1Croft]

I for one welcome the report and see it is a positive step in English football.

Of course I don't necessarily agree with the proposals it lays out but I do commend the FA on finally making an attempt to change English football, in 2 months time when we have exited the World Cup after another unsuccessful campaign we will all be asking "what can we do to improve the National Squad?".

Clearly something needs to be done and I agree with the FA that we need to have the debate on this, not necessarily on "B" teams but on how we actually improve the amount of quality players we produce in our country. We keep hearing idealists bleating on about improving football at grassroots and the FA clearly see that as a key objective and continue to work on that but we do have to ask whether or not that is going to be enough.

What we have seen today is the FA come out and say the current situation is unacceptable and have challenged certain things that is wrong with the game such as the Bosman ruling and English football's ideology of looking overseas to improve their squad rather than home grown players. I won't bash them for that.

A debate needs contributions from all parties concerned, not just the ones with a benificial interest

Of course it does, but the report only marks the beginning of the debate...

Page 15:

In order to address the lack of playing opportunities for English players developing
in England, the Commission has created the following proposals for discussion
and debate:

[aidanstu]

I for one welcome the report and see it is a positive step in English football.

Of course I don't necessarily agree with the proposals it lays out but I do commend the FA on finally making an attempt to change English football, in 2 months time when we have exited the World Cup after another unsuccessful campaign we will all be asking "what can we do to improve the National Squad?".

Clearly something needs to be done and I agree with the FA that we need to have the debate on this, not necessarily on "B" teams but on how we actually improve the amount of quality players we produce in our country. We keep hearing idealists bleating on about improving football at grassroots and the FA clearly see that as a key objective and continue to work on that but we do have to ask whether or not that is going to be enough.

What we have seen today is the FA come out and say the current situation is unacceptable and have challenged certain things that is wrong with the game such as the Bosman ruling and English football's ideology of looking overseas to improve their squad rather than home grown players. I won't bash them for that.

A debate needs contributions from all parties concerned, not just the ones with a benificial interest

Of course it does, but the report only marks the beginning of the debate...

If I as a manager at work would have declared to all my staff what was happening without any level of consultation with the staff, displaying a complete lack of regard for them and essentially saying I don't give a toss because me and the senior management are going ok what do you think the reaction would have been. No bleeding workforce that's what.

[Mr1Croft]

I for one welcome the report and see it is a positive step in English football.

Of course I don't necessarily agree with the proposals it lays out but I do commend the FA on finally making an attempt to change English football, in 2 months time when we have exited the World Cup after another unsuccessful campaign we will all be asking "what can we do to improve the National Squad?".

Clearly something needs to be done and I agree with the FA that we need to have the debate on this, not necessarily on "B" teams but on how we actually improve the amount of quality players we produce in our country. We keep hearing idealists bleating on about improving football at grassroots and the FA clearly see that as a key objective and continue to work on that but we do have to ask whether or not that is going to be enough.

What we have seen today is the FA come out and say the current situation is unacceptable and have challenged certain things that is wrong with the game such as the Bosman ruling and English football's ideology of looking overseas to improve their squad rather than home grown players. I won't bash them for that.

A debate needs contributions from all parties concerned, not just the ones with a benificial interest

Of course it does, but the report only marks the beginning of the debate...

If I as a manager at work would have declared to all my staff what was happening without any level of consultation with the staff, displaying a complete lack of regard for them and essentially saying I don't give a toss because me and the senior management are going ok what do you think the reaction would have been. No bleeding workforce that's what.

You have a point but lets not forget this is just a proposal, and I agree its quite a dangerous one at that and I can't see more than 15% of fans agreeing with it (being generous) and it will probably go no further but for years we have called the FA toothless and with no backbone or prepared to stand up for the English game. At least this report shows that the FA actually want to make a change for the better.

I agree with the FA's aims, I don't agree with how they want to get there.

[ferribyrover]

I just don't see that the proposals will really help the England national team. How will we measure if its working? Do England have to win a World Cup?
We should simply address the premier league and the number of overseas players.
maybe best thing for the England team is for the country to leave the EU and then we can have proper rules about who can play in the PL.

[silent majority]

But that's the problem Lee. They asked for submissions, we gave them a comprehensive one which they they ignored. What kind of debate is that?

[pib]

I think the Belles fiasco showed that the FA aren't interested in anybody else's suggestions.

[aidanstu]

I for one welcome the report and see it is a positive step in English football.

Of course I don't necessarily agree with the proposals it lays out but I do commend the FA on finally making an attempt to change English football, in 2 months time when we have exited the World Cup after another unsuccessful campaign we will all be asking "what can we do to improve the National Squad?".

Clearly something needs to be done and I agree with the FA that we need to have the debate on this, not necessarily on "B" teams but on how we actually improve the amount of quality players we produce in our country. We keep hearing idealists bleating on about improving football at grassroots and the FA clearly see that as a key objective and continue to work on that but we do have to ask whether or not that is going to be enough.

What we have seen today is the FA come out and say the current situation is unacceptable and have challenged certain things that is wrong with the game such as the Bosman ruling and English football's ideology of looking overseas to improve their squad rather than home grown players. I won't bash them for that.

A debate needs contributions from all parties concerned, not just the ones with a benificial interest

Of course it does, but the report only marks the beginning of the debate...

If I as a manager at work would have declared to all my staff what was happening without any level of consultation with the staff, displaying a complete lack of regard for them and essentially saying I don't give a toss because me and the senior management are going ok what do you think the reaction would have been. No bleeding workforce that's what.

You have a point but lets not forget this is just a proposal, and I agree its quite a dangerous one at that and I can't see more than 15% of fans agreeing with it (being generous) and it will probably go no further but for years we have called the FA toothless and with no backbone or prepared to stand up for the English game. At least this report shows that the FA actually want to make a change for the better.

I agree with the FA's aims, I don't agree with how they want to get there.

I agree the English game needs to be developed but this is only part of the FAs end game and not in my opinion the major part. Premier league franchise is.

[silent majority]

I think the Belles fiasco showed that the FA aren't interested in anybody else's suggestions.

Well that's mixing up two different arguments. However they can't ignore the FA Council, and that speaks for the whole of the game in this country. No easy ride.

[aidanstu]

If they are going to have a consultation why not tell folk exactly how they perceive the system will work? What happens to demoted premier league teams or promoted championship sides? Do the teams academies replace each other in the league? The fa must if known this question was going to come up and deliberately avoided giving guidance as they know the premier is heading for franchise.

[aidanstu]

Also has anybody considered the timing of the release is highly suspicious, within days of the football league season ending ( this avoids any embarrassing protests) and right before a World Cup in which we are likely to flop. Greg dyke and The Fa are as bent and as currupt as blatter and his boys.

[Mr1Croft]

But that's the problem Lee. They asked for submissions, we gave them a comprehensive one which they they ignored. What kind of debate is that?

I doubt they ignored it, but rather considered and then disagreed with it. Its whats Commissions do.

But, as we are all aware the Premier League now rules English football, the money from Sky and overseas television rights have seen less and less focus on actual 'fans' attending the game, TV revenue brings in more money, it's much more of a selling point for sponsors etc.,

However that is only applicable to the top teams in the Premier League, but its those teams that in effect bring in the money that gets shared down to the rest of us peasants. The power of the bigger clubs in governance terms has seen the dominant notion of what’s good for the likes of Chelsea, Manchester United and Arsenal as also being good for English football. I don't necessarily agree with it, but that's what happens in a capitalist market.

In the FA's proposal they are obviously using that to their advantage to try and improve the fortunes of the National Squad in a way that the bigger clubs would deem acceptable. I don't think B teams are the way forward but the fact that such a radical proposal has been put forward by our FA Chairman and his commission does at least show us 1 thing above else, they aren't happy with the status quo.

[Mr1Croft]

If they are going to have a consultation why not tell folk exactly how they perceive the system will work? What happens to demoted premier league teams or promoted championship sides? Do the teams academies replace each other in the league? The fa must if known this question was going to come up and deliberately avoided giving guidance as they know the premier is heading for franchise.

Whilst I don't agree with it, they do stipulate what happens:

"There would be promotion and relegation between the four leagues – League
1, League 2, League 3 and Conference Premier. B teams would be unable to
progress into the Championship and must always be at least one division
below the senior team."

Therefore to me it reads that should a team be relegated from the Premier League they have the right to keep a "B" team as long as it is 1 division below the senior team.

As for promoted Championship teams, it states Premier League teams in the 2015/16 season can be eligible for 2016/17 B teams, after that if any more Premier League teams want to join they would start in the Conference.

[pib]

It's interesting that they incorporate the Conference Premier into their proposals, even though the governing body of the Conference has not been consulted at any stage.

[aidanstu]

If they are going to have a consultation why not tell folk exactly how they perceive the system will work? What happens to demoted premier league teams or promoted championship sides? Do the teams academies replace each other in the league? The fa must if known this question was going to come up and deliberately avoided giving guidance as they know the premier is heading for franchise.

Whilst I don't agree with it, they do stipulate what happens:

"There would be promotion and relegation between the four leagues – League
1, League 2, League 3 and Conference Premier. B teams would be unable to
progress into the Championship and must always be at least one division
below the senior team."

Therefore to me it reads that should a team be relegated from the Premier League they have the right to keep a "B" team as long as it is 1 division below the senior team.

As for promoted Championship teams, it states Premier League teams in the 2015/16 season can be eligible for 2016/17 B teams, after that if any more Premier League teams want to join they would start in the Conference.

Start in the conference replacing who? A team which would have been relegated or promoted? Or would they expand the league by potentially three teams? It's rubbish they are heading for franchise.

[Mr1Croft]

If they are going to have a consultation why not tell folk exactly how they perceive the system will work? What happens to demoted premier league teams or promoted championship sides? Do the teams academies replace each other in the league? The fa must if known this question was going to come up and deliberately avoided giving guidance as they know the premier is heading for franchise.

Whilst I don't agree with it, they do stipulate what happens:

"There would be promotion and relegation between the four leagues – League
1, League 2, League 3 and Conference Premier. B teams would be unable to
progress into the Championship and must always be at least one division
below the senior team."

Therefore to me it reads that should a team be relegated from the Premier League they have the right to keep a "B" team as long as it is 1 division below the senior team.

As for promoted Championship teams, it states Premier League teams in the 2015/16 season can be eligible for 2016/17 B teams, after that if any more Premier League teams want to join they would start in the Conference.

Start in the conference replacing who? A team which would have been relegated or promoted? Or would they expand the league by potentially three teams? It's rubbish they are heading for franchise.

From reading the report it looks like the initial suggestion is

2016/17: League 3 created with  10 B teams from PL clubs in 2015/16 and 10 conference teams that make up League 3. Should there be more than this they would have to start in the Conference. Should all 20 clubs want to have a B team then the other 10 would start in the Conference replacing the 10 who were placed in League 3. Assuming not all PL clubs would opt to do this then some Conference North/South Clubs will effectively be promoted into the Conference so the initial offset doesn't really effect the non-league or league clubs.

If after that there is more PL clubs (promoted to the PL) wanting a B team then the plan is to extend League 3 to 24 clubs. Because of the costing implications of having a B team (such as stadia, match day costs etc.,) it wouldn't really be financially viable for Championship clubs to sustain a B teams for more than a season so we can only imagine that through time B teams are pulled by Championship clubs who have been relegated and new B teams starting at the bottom of the pile, making it a self governing model.

Should new teams enter and no teams be pulled then I imagine the lower clubs in the Conference will be demoted but we have to remember that at the beginning 10 conference clubs will be 'promoted' to League 3 and up to 10 Conference North/South Clubs promoted to the Conference.

The FA do make it clear however that the final boundaries and guidelines would have to be decided by the leagues themselves.

[aidanstu]

If they are going to have a consultation why not tell folk exactly how they perceive the system will work? What happens to demoted premier league teams or promoted championship sides? Do the teams academies replace each other in the league? The fa must if known this question was going to come up and deliberately avoided giving guidance as they know the premier is heading for franchise.

Whilst I don't agree with it, they do stipulate what happens:

"There would be promotion and relegation between the four leagues – League
1, League 2, League 3 and Conference Premier. B teams would be unable to
progress into the Championship and must always be at least one division
below the senior team."

Therefore to me it reads that should a team be relegated from the Premier League they have the right to keep a "B" team as long as it is 1 division below the senior team.

As for promoted Championship teams, it states Premier League teams in the 2015/16 season can be eligible for 2016/17 B teams, after that if any more Premier League teams want to join they would start in the Conference.

Start in the conference replacing who? A team which would have been relegated or promoted? Or would they expand the league by potentially three teams? It's rubbish they are heading for franchise.

From reading the report it looks like the initial suggestion is

2016/17: League 3 created with  10 B teams from PL clubs in 2015/16 and 10 conference teams that make up League 3. Should there be more than this they would have to start in the Conference. Should all 20 clubs want to have a B team then the other 10 would start in the Conference replacing the 10 who were placed in League 3. Assuming not all PL clubs would opt to do this then some Conference North/South Clubs will effectively be promoted into the Conference so the initial offset doesn't really effect the non-league or league clubs.

If after that there is more PL clubs (promoted to the PL) wanting a B team then the plan is to extend League 3 to 24 clubs. Because of the costing implications of having a B team (such as stadia, match day costs etc.,) it wouldn't really be financially viable for Championship clubs to sustain a B teams for more than a season so we can only imagine that through time B teams are pulled by Championship clubs who have been relegated and new B teams starting at the bottom of the pile, making it a self governing model.

Should new teams enter and no teams be pulled then I imagine the lower clubs in the Conference will be demoted but we have to remember that at the beginning 10 conference clubs will be 'promoted' to League 3 and up to 10 Conference North/South Clubs promoted to the Conference.

The FA do make it clear however that the final boundaries and guidelines would have to be decided by the leagues themselves.

And then after all that, the b team belonging to a demoted club gets disbanded. Then what ? The players just get absorbed into the premier league squads? Imagine what that would do to the financial fair play system and the number of English youths being released.

[BillyStubbsTears]

In order to address the lack of playing opportunities for English players developing
in England, the Commission has created the following proposals for discussion
and debate:

But it's b*llocks. That is not the core of the problem. If it was, we would have been producing wonderful, world-leading footballers in the 1970s when there was a slack handful of foreigners (mainly a few dozen Scots, Welsh and Irish) in the English League. But we didn't. We produced Paul Marriner while Germany was producing Rummenigge, Italy was producing Rossi and Argentina was producing Maradona.

Italy was buying in lots of world-class talent into Serie A at that time. Didn't stop them producing a World Cup winning squad on 82.

We are obsessed with finding trite solutions to our national failure. This looks like yet another one. Give the 19 year olds a better environment and we'll be OK. But the problems are far deeper. If the 19 year olds were any good, they would blossom anyway. It is precisely because they are not good enough that PL clubs buy in better 19 year olds from elsewhere.

The problems go right down to the way in which kids are coached and the way in which coaches are produced. Look at our woeful inability to develop top class managers. Who is the best English manager of his generation? Harry f**king Redknapp. He'd barely make it into the global top 50 of the past decade.

[aidanstu]

If they are going to have a consultation why not tell folk exactly how they perceive the system will work? What happens to demoted premier league teams or promoted championship sides? Do the teams academies replace each other in the league? The fa must if known this question was going to come up and deliberately avoided giving guidance as they know the premier is heading for franchise.

Whilst I don't agree with it, they do stipulate what happens:

"There would be promotion and relegation between the four leagues – League
1, League 2, League 3 and Conference Premier. B teams would be unable to
progress into the Championship and must always be at least one division
below the senior team."

Therefore to me it reads that should a team be relegated from the Premier League they have the right to keep a "B" team as long as it is 1 division below the senior team.

As for promoted Championship teams, it states Premier League teams in the 2015/16 season can be eligible for 2016/17 B teams, after that if any more Premier League teams want to join they would start in the Conference.

Start in the conference replacing who? A team which would have been relegated or promoted? Or would they expand the league by potentially three teams? It's rubbish they are heading for franchise.

From reading the report it looks like the initial suggestion is

2016/17: League 3 created with  10 B teams from PL clubs in 2015/16 and 10 conference teams that make up League 3. Should there be more than this they would have to start in the Conference. Should all 20 clubs want to have a B team then the other 10 would start in the Conference replacing the 10 who were placed in League 3. Assuming not all PL clubs would opt to do this then some Conference North/South Clubs will effectively be promoted into the Conference so the initial offset doesn't really effect the non-league or league clubs.

If after that there is more PL clubs (promoted to the PL) wanting a B team then the plan is to extend League 3 to 24 clubs. Because of the costing implications of having a B team (such as stadia, match day costs etc.,) it wouldn't really be financially viable for Championship clubs to sustain a B teams for more than a season so we can only imagine that through time B teams are pulled by Championship clubs who have been relegated and new B teams starting at the bottom of the pile, making it a self governing model.

Should new teams enter and no teams be pulled then I imagine the lower clubs in the Conference will be demoted but we have to remember that at the beginning 10 conference clubs will be 'promoted' to League 3 and up to 10 Conference North/South Clubs promoted to the Conference.

The FA do make it clear however that the final boundaries and guidelines would have to be decided by the leagues themselves.

And then after all that, the b team belonging to a demoted club gets disbanded. Then what ? The players just get absorbed into the championship squads? Imagine what that would do to the financial fair play system and the number of English youths being released.

[BillyStubbsTears]

If they are going to have a consultation why not tell folk exactly how they perceive the system will work? What happens to demoted premier league teams or promoted championship sides? Do the teams academies replace each other in the league? The fa must if known this question was going to come up and deliberately avoided giving guidance as they know the premier is heading for franchise.

Whilst I don't agree with it, they do stipulate what happens:

"There would be promotion and relegation between the four leagues – League
1, League 2, League 3 and Conference Premier. B teams would be unable to
progress into the Championship and must always be at least one division
below the senior team."

Therefore to me it reads that should a team be relegated from the Premier League they have the right to keep a "B" team as long as it is 1 division below the senior team.

As for promoted Championship teams, it states Premier League teams in the 2015/16 season can be eligible for 2016/17 B teams, after that if any more Premier League teams want to join they would start in the Conference.

Start in the conference replacing who? A team which would have been relegated or promoted? Or would they expand the league by potentially three teams? It's rubbish they are heading for franchise.

From reading the report it looks like the initial suggestion is

2016/17: League 3 created with  10 B teams from PL clubs in 2015/16 and 10 conference teams that make up League 3. Should there be more than this they would have to start in the Conference. Should all 20 clubs want to have a B team then the other 10 would start in the Conference replacing the 10 who were placed in League 3. Assuming not all PL clubs would opt to do this then some Conference North/South Clubs will effectively be promoted into the Conference so the initial offset doesn't really effect the non-league or league clubs.

If after that there is more PL clubs (promoted to the PL) wanting a B team then the plan is to extend League 3 to 24 clubs. Because of the costing implications of having a B team (such as stadia, match day costs etc.,) it wouldn't really be financially viable for Championship clubs to sustain a B teams for more than a season so we can only imagine that through time B teams are pulled by Championship clubs who have been relegated and new B teams starting at the bottom of the pile, making it a self governing model.

Should new teams enter and no teams be pulled then I imagine the lower clubs in the Conference will be demoted but we have to remember that at the beginning 10 conference clubs will be 'promoted' to League 3 and up to 10 Conference North/South Clubs promoted to the Conference.

The FA do make it clear however that the final boundaries and guidelines would have to be decided by the leagues themselves.

Let me get this right. The Big Idea is that we develop the next generation of world class players by playing the country's finest 19 year olds against Forest Green and Braintree?

I suspect the Spanish will not be pappering their trolleys tonight.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

TRB - I have neither supported nor objected to the idea.

What I object to is small minded individuals writing off a proposal before it has even been published.

Seems to be a lot of small minded people out there wishing to sign the petition.