Looking grim for Labour

[jucyberry]

NO. I'm sorry mick but this one you have totally misjudged. this isn't about a few 'lefties' having a hissy fit. This is a large group of people already marginalised and treated shamefully by the government. people who are suffering great hardships. people forced to jump through hoops by Atos and are left terrified by each and every brown envelope that comes through the door.

People more over who are already made to feel second class. Now you have a man deep in the heart of some of the cruellest policies in years actually being recorded saying some people are worth less. Now that might only be semantics to you, but I can damn well assure you that to thousands up and down the country this is yet another jab in the ribs by the Tory jack boot.

But hey, don't let your rabid hatred of BST and people left leaning get in the way of what is the real truth will you.

If you still don't or won't see just how grievously harmful Freud's words are check out Twitter. For the last 25 hours the foul maggot of a man has been one of if not the top trend.

People ARE disgusted.

[IC1967]

There are only 2 people on this thread that have misjudged the situation and totally misrepresented the context of what was said for their own political agenda. You both use any excuse to demonise the Tories and make things up if it helps your cause. Any right minded person can see he was clumsy in his choice of words but did not say what you, Billy and Milliband are trying to make out he said.

Shame on you for not apologising and sticking to your guns.

By the way I don't hate Billy. I quite like him actually. He is an interesting character if totally misguided. He has made me very angry on this issue though (as have you).

[bpoolrover]

I'm a undecided at the moment but it is stupid to say it the Tories fault this idiot has said this,it seems a lot like point scoring really

[BillyStubbsTears]

Bpool

He's a Tory. He said it. I'm not really sure who else you are supposed to point the finger at.

[IC1967]

Well done to the audience on Question Time last night for having a go at Labour MP Angela Eagle for misrepresenting what Freud said (just like Milliband, BST and Jucyberry). The audience were very angry with her for twisting what he said in a vain attempt to make political capital out of it. The audience saw straight through her and weren't slow to let her know. She is contemptible as is anyone else that puts political correctness and political point scoring above the needs of severely disabled people. You know who you are.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

It's politics everything gets twisted. It's no different to Miliband and his many gaffs - people make mistakes. Labour fans will jump on this of course but the substance is it is not policy so not hugely an issue.

[IC1967]

I don't usually get so angry about political posturing, but when blatant lies are told about what was said and the obvious intentions to try and help the most vulnerable in society  then I have nothing but contempt for the people that indulge in it. We all indulge in political posturing to some extent but I can't think of a worse example where people would stoop so low. I am incredulous and will never forgive them. They will incur my wrath from now on.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Hang on.

What Freud said was this.
"Now, there is a small… there is a group, and I know exactly who you mean, where actually as you say they're not worth the full wage"

Of course that is not official Govt policy. But it is, let's say, a Freudian slip. Just like it was when the same man said that the massive increase in the number of people using food banks is because there is a strand of society who want something for nothing, rather than because of a rise in poverty.

It's an indication of the attitude of a Govt minister. And it's not only one. And THEN you factor in the fact that disabled people have been disproportionately hit by the Govt's changes to welfare and a different image emerges behind Cameron's compassionate Conservative mask.

Of course Cameron wants to distance himself from this. It goes against the whole compassionate Tory image that he wants to project. But whatever Cameton says, by refusing to sack Freud, he is openly supporting someone in Govt who holds these views. But then he would. Cameron brought Freud into his inner circle as an adviser and sorted out a peerage for him to get him into Government. Unless Cameron sticks his fingers in his ears when they meet, I assume that he was fully aware of Freud's opinions on the poor and disabled when he brought him into Govt.

It speaks volumes that Cameron won't sack Freud. He wants to show a compassionate face to soft-headed centrists, but he's also shitting himself that if he looks soft, he'll push even more of his Right wing "let business do why the f*** they want" brigade into UKIP's arms.

[jucyberry]

Oh I'm devastated, I've incurred the wrath of madmick. My life is over... NOT.

Mad mick who wilfully chooses to misinterpret everything anyone posts and then spins it to suit himself.

Well, I am not going to lose any sleep about that.

I do however worry about the good people on several forums that I speak to who are at their wits end because of the charming Freud and his cronies. I also worry about the families of the poor souls who have taken their own lives since this Omni shambles came into power.

The fact that he cannot see how destroying it can be for someone in a fragile state to be casually tagged as worth less I find very sad. We live in a country where mean judgemental opinions are nurtured and encouraged by spiteful propaganda programmes dressed up as entertainment. Where the disabled are resented for needing an 'extra' room and where many are going without basic food in order to pay for those rooms. People are being threatened with eviction. They are scared..

Why not stand up for them instead of a rich journalist/turned banker/turned puppet and mouthpiece?

It isn't about making political hay it is about the perception held.

It is mick that really has no idea.

[IC1967]

You two are in a big hole so what do you both do? You keep on digging. The context of what Freud said was that there are some severely disabled people that cannot command the minimum wage. He said not worth the minimum wage. If he had said command instead of worth then there would have been none of this leftie political correctness gone mad posturing.  It was a Freudian slip which any right minded person could see.

Anyone that has studied what he said knows he was wanting to consider how he could help these poor unfortunate souls. You two would rather they never worked. With you two unless they can command the minimum wage then they can stay on the scrap heap. You mean selfish so and so's. Political correctness and a chance to lie about the Tories is more important to you two than the needs of these people.

You really are the worst kind of human beings. You disgust me and are beneath contempt.

[wilts rover]

Mick

As you appear to have missed it, Lord Freud has published his apology where he now confirms that hat he said was a misunderstanding and that he agrees with Juicy and Billy all along

The former banker who also advised the previous Labour government, has been a minister in the Department for Work and Pensions since 2010, offered a "full and unreserved apology" in a statement on Wednesday.

"I was foolish to accept the premise of the question," he said.

"To be clear, all disabled people should be paid at least the minimum wage, without exception, and I accept that it is offensive to suggest anything else."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29641409

and you with your idea of paying people starvation wages are looking foolish once again.

[IC1967]

He agrees with Billy and Jucy!!! You're as bad as them at putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with 5. He has had to come up with a form of words to satisfy the political correctness lobby. That is all.

Anyone can see what he said was taken totally out of context and twisted to suit the Labour agenda of trying to portray the Tories as the nasty party. I don't need to read any trumped up apology to know what he really meant when he first said it as doesn't any right minded person.

The people that should be apologising is Labour. They are the scum of the earth for portraying Freud and by implication the Tory party as  wanting all the disabled to be paid £2 an hour.

Anyone else that jumps on this bandwagon is also the scum of the earth.

[BillyStubbsTears]

So when Freud says, ""To be clear, all disabled people should be paid at least the minimum wage, without exception, and I accept that it is offensive to suggest anything else.", you reckon that he doesn't really believe that and he came up with that form of words to satisfy the politically correct lobby?

In other words, you think he is brazenly lying for political gain.

Friends like you Mick! Mind, given your MO, I guess that you consider it a comment to call someone a liar.

[IC1967]

So when Freud says, ""To be clear, all disabled people should be paid at least the minimum wage, without exception, and I accept that it is offensive to suggest anything else.", you reckon that he doesn't really believe that and he came up with that form of words to satisfy the politically correct lobby?

Why do you need everything clarifying? Of course he came up (or somebody else did for him) with that form of words to satisfy the likes of you and Jucy and the political correctness lobby. It's obvious that this is what I think you pedant.

[IC1967]

In other words, you think he is brazenly lying for political gain.

You may say this as you like to twist everything to suit your leftie agenda. He has said it because the likes of you, Milliband, Jucy etc. have misrepresented him so he has been forced to do it to calm you idiots down. The only people lying about this is you, Jucy and Labour.

[IC1967]

Friends like you Mick! Mind, given your MO, I guess that you consider it a comment to call someone a liar.

I'd be grateful if you could rephrase that statement. it is complete gibberish and makes no sense whatsoever. Just like all the other drivel you post.

[IC1967]

Oh I'm devastated, I've incurred the wrath of madmick. My life is over... NOT.

Mad mick who wilfully chooses to misinterpret everything anyone posts and then spins it to suit himself.

Well, I am not going to lose any sleep about that.

I do however worry about the good people on several forums that I speak to who are at their wits end because of the charming Freud and his cronies. I also worry about the families of the poor souls who have taken their own lives since this Omni shambles came into power.

The fact that he cannot see how destroying it can be for someone in a fragile state to be casually tagged as worth less I find very sad. We live in a country where mean judgemental opinions are nurtured and encouraged by spiteful propaganda programmes dressed up as entertainment. Where the disabled are resented for needing an 'extra' room and where many are going without basic food in order to pay for those rooms. People are being threatened with eviction. They are scared..

Why not stand up for them instead of a rich journalist/turned banker/turned puppet and mouthpiece?

It isn't about making political hay it is about the perception held.

It is mick that really has no idea.

I AM standing up for the severely disabled that have no chance of work if they have to be paid the minimum wage. I don't know this minister from Adam and couldn't care less about him. I am passionate about the severely disabled that want to work but that can't because of the impediment of having to be paid the minimum wage.

It is you and Billy and Labour that aren't standing up for them. You would rather make political capital by twisting the meaning of what he said and in the meantime couldn't care less whether a solution can be found to the problem. Your solution is that unless they get paid the minimum wage they should not be allowed to work. Morally reprehensible in the extreme.

It is obvious that the minister has identified this as a problem and was prepared to think outside the box by maybe paying them £2 an hour and topping it up to the minimum wage through benefits. Thanks to the contemptible likes of you and Billy these poor souls now have much less chance of being able to find work because of your fake outcry about what he said. I hope you're both very pleased with yourselves.

[RedRover45]

Mick in moral high ground shocker. Mick, you don't really think that, it just makes you think you're fireproof that no-one should argue with you. What is morally reprehensible is you are sticking up for a disgrace to humanity that said it in the first place. In my eyes, that makes you as bad as him.

[IC1967]

Mick in moral high ground shocker. Mick, you don't really think that, it just makes you think you're fireproof that no-one should argue with you. What is morally reprehensible is you are sticking up for a disgrace to humanity that said it in the first place. In my eyes, that makes you as bad as him.

You can join the Billy, Jucy, Milliband club as well. You lot are the disgrace to humanity for denying these people the opportunity to work.

[jucyberry]

Ooo Red. welcome to the dark side.. 

[IC1967]

Ooo Red. welcome to the dark side.. 

Your lack of support of other forum members speaks volumes. I've got no mates on this forum but you and Billy have got dozens. They're not exactly rushing to stick up for you are they? Go figure.

[RedRover45]

Mick in moral high ground shocker. Mick, you don't really think that, it just makes you think you're fireproof that no-one should argue with you. What is morally reprehensible is you are sticking up for a disgrace to humanity that said it in the first place. In my eyes, that makes you as bad as him.

You can join the Billy, Jucy, Milliband club as well. You lot are the disgrace to humanity for denying these people the opportunity to work.

Shut up you daft kitson, you're making a bigger fool of yourself than normal. Go and peddle your drivel elsewhere.

[RedRover45]

Ooo Red. welcome to the dark side.. 

Your lack of support of other forum members speaks volumes. I've got no mates on this forum but you and Billy have got dozens. They're not exactly rushing to stick up for you are they? Go figure.

Really ? Go and re-read the other 320 posts on this thread and then come back with a detailed analysis of posts that agree with your point of view. Take your time, no hurry x

[IC1967]

Ooo Red. welcome to the dark side.. 

Your lack of support of other forum members speaks volumes. I've got no mates on this forum but you and Billy have got dozens. They're not exactly rushing to stick up for you are they? Go figure.

Really ? Go and re-read the other 320 posts on this thread and then come back with a detailed analysis of posts that agree with your point of view. Take your time, no hurry x

Like I said I've got no mates on this forum so don't expect any support. The silent majority know I'm totally right on this issue. There was always going to be one or two that would crawl out of the woodwork to support their best mates. Just realise this. The silent majority will also now hold you in contempt. I just hope you are never severely disabled and refused the opportunity to work because a group of leftie nutjobs would rather keep you out of work because you're not 'worth' the minimum wage to an employer. God forbid that a Tory government would be allowed to let you work for £2 an hour and top up your wages to the national minimum wage so you could reclaim some self esteem.

[jucyberry]

I would have been just as sickened by the words if they had come out of the mouth of Milliband, Clegg or the man in the moon.

I could excuse Freud of clumsy wording if it wasn't for the fact that every time  the man opens his mouth he seems to jump in to it feet first..

Greedy people  visit food banks because it's free food not because they are desperate.

People with the least should take more risks as they have least to lose ..(Try telling that to anyone with little more than shirt buttons to their name.) and on and on..

I am at a loss over this paragraph, you seem to be contradicting yourself somewhat....  I just hope you are never severely disabled and refused the opportunity to work because a group of leftie nutjobs would rather keep you out of work because you're not 'worth' the minimum wage to an employer. God forbid that a Tory government would be allowed to let you work for £2 an hour and top up your wages to the national minimum wage so you could reclaim some self esteem.  Are you saying employers should be bribed? or that the severely disabled shouldn't work? 

IF any one with a disability be it severe or not wants to work then they should be paid the same wage as other people doing the same job, anything else smacks almost of the awful free dinners tickets they used to dole out  to poor kids at school.

But I tell you what, wait until Tuesday evening, if I remember I'll ask the other people at the carers group at Mind that I go to, I'll see what they make of it all.....

Oh and personally I think people don't comment on these threads because most people see the subject matter and length of thread and immediately get a case of the screaming abdabs...... Some of us unfortunately, BST, you and I can't seem to help ourselves.. it probably says more about us than them.

[Iberian Red]

Have you seen the fat loss dance of you tube? I'm sure she was wearing leggings!

[IC1967]

I would have been just as sickened by the words if they had come out of the mouth of Milliband, Clegg or the man in the moon.

I could excuse Freud of clumsy wording if it wasn't for the fact that every time  the man opens his mouth he seems to jump in to it feet first..

Greedy people  visit food banks because it's free food not because they are desperate.

People with the least should take more risks as they have least to lose ..(Try telling that to anyone with little more than shirt buttons to their name.) and on and on..

I am at a loss over this paragraph, you seem to be contradicting yourself somewhat....  I just hope you are never severely disabled and refused the opportunity to work because a group of leftie nutjobs would rather keep you out of work because you're not 'worth' the minimum wage to an employer. God forbid that a Tory government would be allowed to let you work for £2 an hour and top up your wages to the national minimum wage so you could reclaim some self esteem.  Are you saying employers should be bribed? or that the severely disabled shouldn't work? 

IF any one with a disability be it severe or not wants to work then they should be paid the same wage as other people doing the same job, anything else smacks almost of the awful free dinners tickets they used to dole out  to poor kids at school.

But I tell you what, wait until Tuesday evening, if I remember I'll ask the other people at the carers group at Mind that I go to, I'll see what they make of it all.....

Oh and personally I think people don't comment on these threads because most people see the subject matter and length of thread and immediately get a case of the screaming abdabs...... Some of us unfortunately, BST, you and I can't seem to help ourselves.. it probably says more about us than them.

Yes I am saying employers should be 'bribed' as you put it (a rather clumsy choice of words but we understand where you are coming from). I would have thought that was obvious. The difference between you and the minister (and me) is that you are quite happy for severely disabled people that cannot command the minimum wage to be left to rot on the scrapheap. Your pie in the sky political correctness condemns these poor unfortunate people to never working because they can never command the minimum wage because employers don't deem them 'worth' it.

I've got news for you. The world isn't perfect. It's very competitive. Employers want the best people they can get. If they don't do this they are at a competitive disadvantage to the competition and could possibly go out of business. It is in this environment that severely disabled people are competing with more able bodied people. In your world they are never going to get a job. You would let them rot. In my world they have a chance. Your fake outcry has made it much harder for them now. No party is going to entertain subsidising their wages now thanks to you and your moronic ideologues.

People aren't commenting on this thread because they don't want to be seen to be in the same camp as you and BST. Given the amount of animosity towards me and the way I've gone at you and BST the fact that hardly anyone is backing you should tell you something.

You say he said 'Greedy people visit food banks because it's free food not because they are desperate.' I'm not prepared to take what you say at face value given your track record. I can't find anywhere where he said this. I'd be grateful if you could post a link showing where he said this. If you don't, then I would at the very least expect an abject apology from you on this other example of misrepresentation.

[Iberian Red]

A post of the big un wearing black?

[IC1967]

You say he said 'Greedy people visit food banks because it's free food not because they are desperate.' I'm not prepared to take what you say at face value given your track record. I can't find anywhere where he said this. I'd be grateful if you could post a link showing where he said this. If you don't, then I would at the very least expect an abject apology from you on this other example of misrepresentation.

Right, you've had a week to get this sorted. Thats more than enough time. You have obviously lied and misrepresented Freud again. Get that abject apology sorted immediately and we'll say no more about it.

[BillyStubbsTears]

f**king hell Debs. You'd better get on with that abject apology. Otherwise he might say some more about it.