Malaysian Airlines Plane Shot Down In Ukraine??

[DaveDRFC]

Very bad news, guess it could have happened to anyone but even more bad press for Malaysia Airlines. Can't even comprehend something like this happening, shot down at 33,000 feet??

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28354856

[glosterred]

Question - why are airlines flying over what is essentially a war zone?

[DaveDRFC]

Question - why are airlines flying over what is essentially a war zone?

I've been thinking the same thing. I notice all the big airlines are now saying they won't be flying there. It shouldn't have taken something like this to happen to make them do that, they should have been avoiding it anyway!

[afro goal machine]

Pretty sure you emirates fly over Iraq but at an higher altitude

[RedJ]

Apparently they were flying over airspace that was restricted from civilian use anyway, so it makes you wonder what they were playing at.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Pretty sure you emirates fly over Iraq but at an higher altitude

I've flown Emirates several time on the Uk-Dubai route. A few years now since I did it, but the flights very carefully stayed out of Iraq airspace. It was quite an eerie experience at night. You could see a row of red lights 30-40 miles in the distance, denoting the Iran-Iraq border and acting as a warning to planes not to veer into that area.

[RTID75]

I flew Emirates back from Singapore to Dubai in 2011 and looking on the flight status map on the screen on the back of the seat we were definitely over Iraq. An unnerving experience and the whole time I was thinking about that DHL cargo plane that was hit (but miraculously landed safely) by a missile fired by a bloke the ground.

[glosterred]

Flew on a Kuwaiti airways 747 in early 91 to Saudi and on their in flight map when we approached the Middle East, Israel did not exist, wonder why!

[jucyberry]

I can see this all ending terribly. Ironically given the thread below about the Cuban missile crisis.. We are  inexorably being pulled somewhere terrifying.  America and Russia have never been best buddies let alone friends, now we have top republican John McCain claiming hell to pay if it is Russia to blame, whilst the Guardian is reporting that Putin  has denied he is reopening the spy base in Cuba.

Anything that happens we will be stuck in the middle of, god help us all.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I flew Emirates back from Singapore to Dubai in 2011 and looking on the flight status map on the screen on the back of the seat we were definitely over Iraq. An unnerving experience and the whole time I was thinking about that DHL cargo plane that was hit (but miraculously landed safely) by a missile fired by a bloke the ground.

Singapore to Dubai and you flew over Iraq? f**king hell, was the pilot taking you sightseeing? Iraq's about 500miles the wrong side of Dubai.

[RTID75]

Well, I'm not Middle East expert, but it certainly looked like it from the screen, hence my slight anxiety. Mind you, the scale of the screen could make 500 miles seem like 5mm, so...

[afro goal machine]

Pretty sure you emirates fly over Iraq but at an higher altitude

I've flown Emirates several time on the Uk-Dubai route. A few years now since I did it, but the flights very carefully stayed out of Iraq airspace. It was quite an eerie experience at night. You could see a row of red lights 30-40 miles in the distance, denoting the Iran-Iraq border and acting as a warning to planes not to veer into that area.

a quick google search says the Dubai route goes over Baghdad
done that route a few times i remember the first time as it was my first flight. While watching the map on the telly the arse fell out when i saw the route going over Iraq

[BillyStubbsTears]

Pretty sure you emirates fly over Iraq but at an higher altitude

I've flown Emirates several time on the Uk-Dubai route. A few years now since I did it, but the flights very carefully stayed out of Iraq airspace. It was quite an eerie experience at night. You could see a row of red lights 30-40 miles in the distance, denoting the Iran-Iraq border and acting as a warning to planes not to veer into that area.

a quick google search says the Dubai route goes over Baghdad
done that route a few times i remember the first time as it was my first flight. While watching the map on the telly the arse fell out when i saw the route going over Iraq

Afro

Might well have changed. It was 2008, last time I did it.

[not on facebook]

now been reported that two Newcastle utd fans were on the flight as they was
planning to take the teams pre season tour somewhere in asia

[bigbadjack]

Makes you think was the plane literally blown apart in the sky or was it partly damaged and everyone on board was alive before it crashed

[Iberian Red]

Was it the KM2?

[Filo]

Russia has a history of shooting down civilian aircraft, remember the Korean airline in the 80's?

[IDM]

UK-Dubai routes have been flying over eastern europe, including Ukraine, then over the Black Sea and Turkey, Iraq and down the gulf itself.

I am fairly certain that the international aviation transport community will take security and threat assessments into account when authorising routes.

This incident is probably a result of pro-Russian rebels shooting down the plane thinking it was Ukrainian.  I doubt Russia's government itself would have authorised this.

[Filo]

UK-Dubai routes have been flying over eastern europe, including Ukraine, then over the Black Sea and Turkey, Iraq and down the gulf itself.

I am fairly certain that the international aviation transport community will take security and threat assessments into account when authorising routes.

This incident is probably a result of pro-Russian rebels shooting down the plane thinking it was Ukrainian.  I doubt Russia's government itself would have authorised this.

They're guilty by association, they are obviously arming the rebels and as such they should reign them in

[BillyStubbsTears]

Filo

Several countries have previous on shooting down airliners. Including the USA and, ironically, Ukraine, which mistakenly shot down a Russian airliner 13 years ago.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/17/history-of-airlines-shot-down-malaysia-airlines-mh17

[Filo]

Filo

Several countries have previous on shooting down airliners. Including the USA and, ironically, Ukraine, which mistakenly shot down a Russian airliner 13 years ago.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/17/history-of-airlines-shot-down-malaysia-airlines-mh17

I'll concede on that point, although I still stand by my point that Russia are guilty by association if it is found that the rebels have shot the aircraft down. Putin is in a bit of a corner now, if he stops supplying arms to the rebels and distances himself from them, it'll be seen as a climb down by him, if he carries on arming them he'll be seen as a sponsor of terrorism by the rest of the world, whatdoes he do, stick or twist?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Filo

I agree that Putin carries a lot of the responsibility. It'll be interesting to see if he holds his hands up or if he blusters through it.

My post was meant to point out the muddy moral waters. The USA, as usual, plays the moral crusader. But it has NEVER apologised for one of it's warships killing 290 innocent Iranian civilians when a gung-ho Captain decided to fire a missile at it.

[Filo]

Filo

I agree that Putin carries a lot of the responsibility. It'll be interesting to see if he holds his hands up or if he blusters through it.

My post was meant to point out the muddy moral waters. The USA, as usual, plays the moral crusader. But it has NEVER apologised for one of it's warships killing 290 innocent Iranian civilians when a gung-ho Captain decided to fire a missile at it.

Putin is old school KGB, there is no way he'll hold his hands up

[IDM]

UK-Dubai routes have been flying over eastern europe, including Ukraine, then over the Black Sea and Turkey, Iraq and down the gulf itself.

I am fairly certain that the international aviation transport community will take security and threat assessments into account when authorising routes.

This incident is probably a result of pro-Russian rebels shooting down the plane thinking it was Ukrainian.  I doubt Russia's government itself would have authorised this.

They're guilty by association, they are obviously arming the rebels and as such they should reign them in

Rightly or wrongly, the Russians may be supporting the rebels in their conflict with Ukraine.  It may be that the use of anti-aircraft weapons was supposed to be against military targets.  But perhaps due to lack of intelligence material, real time aircraft identification etc, they took down almost  300 innocent people.  I am in no way justifying that, just offering a potential explanation.

Why this flight?  What was special about Malaysian Airlines or Holland (most victims were Dutch) to the conflict in Ukraine?  To me, this shows that the shooting down was random (in terms of this "target") and could have been any flight over that region, which is horrific to think of.

If it was a deliberate act, of terrorism for publicity, then they have succeeded.  You would hope that in this case there wouldn't be any repeat.

[dknward2]

Maybe it was practice unfortuatley they took 300 peoples lives

[BillyStubbsTears]

I suspect that they are trigger-happy retards who thought they were targeting a Ukranian military transport plane.

This is serious shit for Putin. He's supporting these cretins as a viable militia fighting a just war for independence. If they are proven to be a bunch of missile-toting head jobs who can't be trusted to check that an innocent civilian flight is in the sky before firing off a SAM, their credibility is zero.

[not on facebook]

I suspect that they are trigger-happy retards who thought they were targeting a Ukranian military transport plane.

This is serious shit for Putin. He's supporting these cretins as a viable militia fighting a just war for independence. If they are proven to be a bunch of missile-toting head jobs who can't be trusted to check that an innocent civilian flight is in the sky before firing off a SAM, their credibility is zero.

just maybe the divs that brought the plane Down had been drinking and
 was as pissed as newts

[The Red Baron]

I suspect that they are trigger-happy retards who thought they were targeting a Ukranian military transport plane.

This is serious shit for Putin. He's supporting these cretins as a viable militia fighting a just war for independence. If they are proven to be a bunch of missile-toting head jobs who can't be trusted to check that an innocent civilian flight is in the sky before firing off a SAM, their credibility is zero.

Putin is fortunate that the USA is "lead" by the worst President in living memory. Then again, I don't believe he would have tried to do what he has in Ukraine if the US had a half-decent leader.

[BillyStubbsTears]

TRB

Worse than Dubya? Really? I mean...REALLY? A president who led the country into one illegal war, one unwinnable war and who pissed away the biggest fiscal surplus in a century on tax cuts for the richest few percent, leading directly to the second worst economic collapse since the 1870s.

You reckon Obama has a worse rap sheet than that?

[Iberian Red]

I suspect that they are trigger-happy retards who thought they were targeting a Ukranian military transport plane.

This is serious shit for Putin. He's supporting these cretins as a viable militia fighting a just war for independence. If they are proven to be a bunch of missile-toting head jobs who can't be trusted to check that an innocent civilian flight is in the sky before firing off a SAM, their credibility is zero.

Putin is fortunate that the USA is "lead" by the worst President in living memory. Then again, I don't believe he would have tried to do what he has in Ukraine if the US had a half-decent leader.

Have you been at the sherry?