investment

[Lipsy]

I can only speak of Bournemouth, but there's a very obvious business-based prize with investing in AFCB. I guess it's fairly unique in that regard.

Unless, of course, you think that a random Russian billionaire randomly chose Bournemouth to invest in and the fact that it has land around it, is ripe for development and happens to be in a major tourist spot is pure coincidence...

[silent majority]

That's not right BB. The attendance was going backwards not forwards. Our stay in the Championship was having no positive effect at all.

[Bentley Bullet]

That's not right BB. The attendance was going backwards not forwards. Our stay in the Championship was having no positive effect at all.

Were attendances going backwards when we were doing well?

[DonnyBazR0ver]

The crowds were increasing when we were doing well in the Championship, and had increased significantly over the previous five or so years.

After the first season, attendances were dropping. The novetly factor, the recession, increase in prices, pleas to JR to drop prices, occasional offers (Swansea etc), pleas ignored....

"I just wish the town would get behind us..." Ring any bells?   

[silent majority]

No doubt I'll be accused of talking about myself again by some!

But the initial thought process behind IRWT was because we were playing the best football I'd seen in my lifetime as a DRFC supporter and yet attendances were declining. I decided to try and find out why that was.

[Bentley Bullet]

.....In the middle of a recession......L**ds mercenaries abandoning their home town club and becoming life-long L**ds fans again when they started winning.......We really needed to invest more at that time to keep the momentum going.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

What, you mean Jason Shackell?? Turning point in my eyes. 

[Bentley Bullet]

......Jason Shackell leaving......

[Chris Black come back]

The frustration with Shackell was two-fold.

Firstly, that he was so obviously what we lacked but couldn't afford. Fair enough.

Secondly, more frustratingly. SOD refused to prioritise a big mester at the back, even if not in league of Shackell. How much money wasted on players who tried but weren't good enough? Thomas, Souza, Naylor?

[Bentley Bullet]

Aye you couldn't really blame Shackell for opting for near-by giants Barnsley.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Shackell was ready to sign,but we dillied and dallied. Not Blaming Shackell himself. Had we have secured his signing, it would made a big statement.

At the time, we needed something like this together with a more realistic ticketing pricing policy as a damage limitation exercise in the face of the onsetting recession. Opportinuties were missed to maintain income however, would not be sensible to blame one factor in the decline from where we were when we sold 8000 STs. It was always going to drop from that figure.


 

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB

You know there's this internet thing out there, where you can find out and check facts rather than rely on your own memory.

Our average attendances in the Campionship fell year on year.

08/09, 11,994
09/10, 10,991
10/11, 10,295
11/12, 9,338

So this line about our attendances proving while we were in the Championship is easily checkable, and factually incorrect.

[Bentley Bullet]

BST
Do those figures include away fans? I ask because I wouldn't be surprised if your figures showing a downtrend  were influenced mostly by a reduction in away supporters, following a boom of them wishing to visit the new ground, not unlike many home fans........Well, that and the recession!

Besides, I did say crowds were increasing WHEN WE WERE DOING WELL, and not for the whole 4 years when we quite often weren't!

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB

You really could do some looking around for numbers you know, instead of plucking an argument out if the air then speculating that the facts might support it.

In the first half of 2010/11, we were playing the best football I've ever seen from a Rovers team, and were between mid-table and the edge of te play-offs.

Up to Xmas, we played 11 home games. That included derbies against big local teams, such as Leeds, Sheff Utd, Derby, Forest and Hull (and Middlesborough, though that's stretching the "derby" definition). Our average attendance was 10,530. In other words, down 1,500 on the average attendance in the whole of 2008/09, a season which included a run of form worse than anything in our history apart from under Weaver/Bergara.

I'm sure you'll still convince yourself that if only Bramall would put in more money, the fans would queue up down Black Bank to watch. You've decided your conclusion and seem impervious to facts.

[Bentley Bullet]

BST

Do you think there might have been a similar drop in attendances throughout the country, due to shortage of money, due to the recession?

[silent majority]

BB,

No there wasn't.

[Chris Black come back]

My understanding is that season ticket sales went down year on year from the first Championship season.

However, don't know about the mythical beast that is the floating Rovers supporter.

It is feasible that BB could be right about declining away supporters, although logic would suggest that it was our lot that buggered off, rather than Forest, Leeds, Newcastle etc.

Unless someone can disprove BB with stats on overall home support, rather than just season tickets?

[Bentley Bullet]

SM, If that is true, and I'm wrong, what do you think is the way forward? If being successful won't increase crowds, what does the future hold? What is the point of trying to be successful?

[Red wizard]

I'd love to know Rotherhams wage bill. They have brought some very good players in. In fact they seem to bring one in every other week.

[silent majority]

BB, some good questions, and as I said earlier the type of questions I was asking too. Unfortunately what I learnt is that it's far more complicated to answer than I could ever detail on here.

However, you have to take into account some of the obvious issues. Firstly, in my opinion, the move from Belle Vue did us no favours for all kinds of reasons. Yes it's a better stadium, but the allocated seating causes all kinds of issues, not least the atmosphere and the fan experience.

The answers to a lot of your questions would take too long to answer here, a lot of it is not measurable. But a general answer is that attendance is not connected directly to performance on the pitch. Or, we as supporters cannot influence pitch performance so we than have to look at other issues. Price and attendance are connected, but not the whole answer. Today we are still £6 cheaper than we used to be bout attendance is still low.

As I say, we learnt some good lessons by asking those questions. These are the things we like to think we're working on, the answers are still coming.

[Chris Black come back]

The Keepmoat like all seated stadiums promotes absolutely abysmal atmosphere. Whatever crap we were playing (and over decades it was mainly crap) going to a game and standing on the Pop was an enjoyable experience. Shifting to the Keepmoat makes games often a chore.

However, I cannot believe that the Keepmoat does nothing other than bring in multiples more income due to corporate types and advertising, along with renting to other sports and uses.

Would sooner be back at Belle Vue for game any day. Don't think it could have delivered financially for Rovers though.

[Red wizard]

Only the real hardcore will go when were losing at home every week. Take me, not been to a game or on here for months. I class my self as hardcore fan. Seeing us lose every week has just put me on a real downer when it come to football. I have lost faith in the manager, Un sure on the board. Now i have other reasons to not going such as working weekends. But i ask my self would i go if i could and im not sure. Somthing need to happen with football and fast as its losing alot of match going fans every week.

[Mr1Croft]

BST

Do you think there might have been a similar drop in attendances throughout the country, due to shortage of money, due to the recession?

There was a general drop in attendance throughout that period, but we were below the national average.

Here is a graph I did a little over a year ago on the subject.



Brighton were quite literally off the scale with a 200% increase in attendances.

Further more here is another graph I did showing our attendance alongside our run of form in the championship.

[bfdoncaster west]

wot a hardcore fan

[acko]

when we talk of support we need to catch them while their young,go round town particular this time of year you cannot buy anything connected to rovers,nearly every other club kids watch, calendars,shirts,balls and no end of little momentos,the.y dont know rovers exist and first impressions stick.i asked why we didnt have an outlet in the frenchgate center,where we could buy rovers gear and probably tickets for games,the answer i got from mr baldwin was it would cost a 6 figure sum.personnely i dont agree.Ive heard on here complaints about the rovers shop at the keepmoat so surely its worth a try,maybe a franchise would be the way foreward.to ask the wife to make her way to keepmoat and get you a ticket and maybe a shirt is pushing it especially if no car

[Boomstick]

It might cost a 6 figure sum in rent, but the potential income from a shop at the frenchgate is alot bigger.
Not to mention the potential ticket sales, town centre presence etc.

Now THATS investment worthwhile.

[Mr1Croft]

It might cost a 6 figure sum in rent, but the potential income from a shop at the frenchgate is alot bigger.
Not to mention the potential ticket sales, town centre presence etc.

Now THATS investment worthwhile.

So why did Streetwise go bust?


The shop the club had in the town centre was also removed because it simply wasn't making enough as I remember.


It would be a 6 figure sum in rent plus the cost of more stock, staffing and then overheads. It all quickly adds up and your hunting for turnover just short of a 7 figure sum just to cover the costs.


Its also worth pointing out the busiest time in the Frenchgate is Saturday between 2-5. You'd think anyone half hearted in Rovers would be spending that time at the Keepmoat for 23 of those 52 Saturdays a year?

[bpoolrover]

The atmosphere at bv was awful there was about 50 people pop side grouped together and might have sounded loud to them but people please correct me if I'm wrong but it was No better than the keepmoat,can't remember who posted about the pleas to jr to lower the prices but if I remember rightly every time he did there was uproar on here that it was not fair on season ticket holders

[DonnyOsmond]

The Frenchgate is the most busiest place in the town centre. Perhaps the previous shop failed because it was hidden away near Walkabout.

[Dagenham Rover]

The Frenchgate is the most busiest place in the town centre. Perhaps the previous shop failed because it was hidden away near Walkabout.

I really tend to think you are right, but the costs in the Frenchgate may have been prohibitive however its  Doncaster but I've no doubt the landords don't care as long as they get full whack rent............