Ched Evans to sign for oldham

[IDM]

But he maintains he didn't rape her, so why should be apologise or show remorse?

He could apologise for being in that situation in the first place - ie turning up to "have a go" with the woman his mate had "pulled", and cheating on his girlfriend - yet still claim innocence of rape?

[BillyStubbsTears]

If you get drunk beyond the point that you know what you are doing and you belt someone, your drunkenness doesn't absolve you of guilt for assault.

If you get drunk beyond the point at which you know what you are doing and you get belted, your drunkenness doesn't absolve the aggressor of guilt for the assault.

[Mike_F]

Decent analogy Bill.

For the record, the way I see this is that in a court of law, 12 people believed beyond all reasonable doubt that Evans is guilty. Therefore he's guilty.

The issue I would take with the analogy though is that I don't know anyone who goes out looking to get belted and subsequently decides that they were too drunk to decide who, if anyone gives 'em a slap.

[since-1969]

When asked on a questaire if they would sign Evens  Yet to respond – Barnsley, Bradford, Colchester, Doncaster, Leyton Orient, Rochdale others said no. So we could then !

Where's this?

sky news ok not always accurate .

[MiKA]

Like I said it's a big grey area and if we're honest most of us have been in Mike_F's position before (maybe even Jenny would admit to it)  lol   It is very worrying though that no matter what happened the night before, if the girl then cried rape the next day we'd be well and truly ****ed. 

I don't know the in's and out's of Evans case but the fact of the matter is that despite a jury decision the guy could actually have been wronged and if that is the case then why should he apologise or show remorse.   

[Jenny]

I won't admit to anything on a forum that my mum reads....

[Lipsy]

The thing that *probably* did for him was the fact that he was in a taxi going in a different direction and then, when he got the "I've got a bird" text, went to the hotel and appropriated a keycard by lying to the porter. Leaving by the fire escape looked nice and sinister as well. If you were a jury, you have a drunk couple going doing what drunk couples do, versus a bloke who turned up uninvited with his mates to watch him shag a girl who some argued was too drunk to consent...

[acko]

one point missed in all this is the fact the girl never cried rape,she just reported her hand bag was missing;which i might add was found un touched,the only evidence of sex taking place was a statement made by evans and mcdonald that is why both were charged, the prosecuting officer decided the girl was too drunk to consent.and to answer your question IDM he was denied the right to appeal,namely eastenders post.the appeal given now is at his own cost which can take place on his release

[IDM]

Denied the right to appeal?  Or dismissed having had no grounds for appeal?  I dunno...

[BobG]

I know a guy, a teacher, who was accused of 'fiddling' with a girl. He was suspended from work. He was ostracised. He had the coppers all over him for months. He hardly ever dared to go out the front door. He lived in fear. All he could say was 'I didn't do it'. There was no other defence open to him. It went on for months. And when the girl owned up, nobody cared a damn about the teacher. He was just collateral damage.

Ched Evans may or may not be a git. But a lot of people seem to forget that girls can be gits too. None of us can form a judgement on CE beyond that given by the jury. Given his position on the issue though, the actions and words of the girl have to be questioned before any final judgement can be made.

I have no knowledge of CE beyond what I've read.  What does strike me about it all is that Ched must really believe in his innocence. He could have got on with quietly playing somewhere if he'd made the usual sound bite apology. As time passed, he could have progressed. But he hasn't done that. The position he's taken is seriously costing him. It's affecting his reputation, his notoriety and, massively,  his bank balance. It could very well see him never play in this country again. So he really means it when he refuses to accept he did what is claimed. And that leaves us with only two possible results: he didn't do it, or, he doesn't know the finer details of how rape is defined.

As has been mentioned on here already, I wonder just how many blokes on here have done pretty much exactly the same as Ched Evans? Liike I said, it's the oldest trick in the book. It don't make it right. But it does make it human.

BobG

[Dagenham Rover]

Denied the right to appeal?  Or dismissed having had no grounds for appeal?  I dunno...

I think it was because there was no "new evidence" whether there is now or not I ain't a clue

[IDM]

I know a guy, a teacher, who was accused of 'fiddling' with a girl. He was suspended from work. He was ostracised. He had the coppers all over him for months. He hardly ever dared to go out the front door. He lived in fear. All he could say was 'I didn't do it'. There was no other defence open to him. It went on for months. And when the girl owned up, nobody cared a damn about the teacher. He was just collateral damage.

Ched Evans may or may not be a git. But a lot of people seem to forget that girls can be gits too. None of us can form a judgement on CE beyond that given by the jury. Given his position on the issue though, the actions and words of the girl have to be questioned before any final judgement can be made.

I have no knowledge of CE beyond what I've read.  What does strike me about it all is that Ched must really believe in his innocence. He could have got on with quietly playing somewhere if he'd made the usual sound bite apology. As time passed, he could have progressed. But he hasn't done that. The position he's taken is seriously costing him. It's affecting his reputation, his notoriety and, massively,  his bank balance. It could very well see him never play in this country again. So he really means it when he refuses to accept he did what is claimed. And that leaves us with only two possible results: he didn't do it, or, he doesn't know the finer details of how rape is defined.

As has been mentioned on here already, I wonder just how many blokes on here have done pretty much exactly the same as Ched Evans? Liike I said, it's the oldest trick in the book. It don't make it right. But it does make it human.

BobG

I can only speak for myself, but I haven't ever gone round to "have a go" with a woman that a friend of mine has just picked up and had sex with.

Back to Ched - if he believes so strongly that he is innocent, AND he is aware of the current public feelings, then perhaps he should stay away from the football limelight until his latest appeal is heard?

[BobG]

Lol! I didn't express msyelf very clearly. I wasn't suggesting everyone had done the train thing. I was suggesting that getting a girl not sober to some degree or other with an ulterior motive in mind is something that an awful lot of guys have done at some point.

BobG

[acko]

very good post bob,as for evans appeal failure  it was basically about the judges comments on summing up what was the concern,regarding new evidence that as now come more to light with the full video evidence the police was not happy about evans solicitor obtaining,the video shown in court was only an editted version,but to sum up there is no law in the land that says evans cant resume his career and if oldham wish to sign him its their buisness not ours.they obviosly beleave there is an element of doubt about the conviction so get in first before others start regretting not signing

[Muttley]

If you read up on the case/law, it seems that the court can and did believe that MacDonald could have "reasonably assumed" that she had given consent to sexual intercourse by her actions (she did not need to verbalise this).

Also, drunken consent is still seen to be consent.

The whole case is a bit of a mess to be honest and I wouldn't be surprised if his conviction did get overturned (although I still think him and his mates are complete sleazebags).

[Donnyjim]

Brian (used to be a solicitor you know) Moore, absolutely nailed it on Talksport this morning. While Mr Evans is going through his appeal, he or his entourage, including the FA, should refrain from doing and saying anything. This obviously means there can be no contrition. But, he should not also be coming on TV or putting up his website either. Every one that has ignored the above have been severely misinformed by the legal process.

[bpoolrover]

Idm while I agree with everything else you have posted on this subject,I don't think he has to apologise in public for being there or cheating on his girlfriend,that's his business no one else's

[IDM]

Idm while I agree with everything else you have posted on this subject,I don't think he has to apologise in public for being there or cheating on his girlfriend,that's his business no one else's

No he doesn't have to do that, but it would help his PR.  Plus as Donnyjim quoted, "While Mr Evans is going through his appeal, he or his entourage, including the FA, should refrain from doing and saying anything."

[silent majority]

A good article rebutting some of the arguments ;

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/ched-evans-has-served-his-time--and-other-misconceptions-about-the-convicted-rapist-footballer-9957849.html

[Jonathan]

A good article rebutting some of the arguments ;

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/ched-evans-has-served-his-time--and-other-misconceptions-about-the-convicted-rapist-footballer-9957849.html

That "rebuttal" fails to address my key question - where are all these moral guardians and activists to protect us from the many thousands of other rapists, murderers and abusers released into society every year? Why give this particular offence and offender priority over any other?

As for all the rubbish about footballers being role models - that's the biggest misconception of the lot. It's the media responsible for routinely placing thick f**kers on a pedestal based solely on their ability to kick a ball around a pitch. They put unsuitable people in positions of hero worship and then create a frenzy when they invariably fail to live up to the billing that they stupidly provided.

The game is just a mess - too much image, too much money, too many Cheds and McDonalds and too much misplaced adulation. I don't know if he's guilty or not, I do know he's not untypical of the modern footballer - thinks he can do what and who he wants and it's the sickening press pandering that creates their whole persona and results in many girls (not necessarily the one referred to in this case) throwing themselves at them. This is clearly far from a black and white case and nobody comes out of it well, but to me it simply doesn't justify the frenzied reaction unless you have a close association with any of the parties involved.

That's not trivialising rape, it's just a bit of perspective here. If people are so intent on protecting society that they're obsessing over the condemnation of this specific offence, then may I suggest you channel those energies to other worthy causes too, otherwise it just looks like voyeurism and spite.

[acko]

brilliant jonathan,very well put i applaud you

[bobjimwilly]

That "rebuttal" fails to address my key question - where are all these moral guardians and activists to protect us from the many thousands of other rapists, murderers and abusers released into society every year? Why give this particular offence and offender priority over any other?

Because he's a professional footballer. And clubs were considering letting him play for them again. Without action from "moral guardians and activists", this may have happened, which many thousands of people obviously don't want.

As for all the rubbish about footballers being role models - that's the biggest misconception of the lot.

It would be very naive to think footballers are not role models. The question isn't if they should be; they just are. Kids look up to them and have done for generations.

The game is just a mess - too much image, too much money, too many Cheds and McDonalds and too much misplaced adulation. I don't know if he's guilty or not, I do know he's not untypical of the modern footballer - thinks he can do what and who he wants and it's the sickening press pandering that creates their whole persona and results in many girls (not necessarily the one referred to in this case) throwing themselves at them. This is clearly far from a black and white case and nobody comes out of it well, but to me it simply doesn't justify the frenzied reaction unless you have a close association with any of the parties involved.

The people who are "frenzied" are primarily those who would be affected if he were to sign for the likes of Sheff Utd or Oldham. And whether any of us think it was a black and white case or not is irrelevant; he was found guilty by a court of his peers. I don't think anyone is arguing about whether the game is a mess or not. And I don't think you can blame the press for creating some sort of habitat for rapists to be nurtured or encouraged?

That's not trivialising rape, it's just a bit of perspective here. If people are so intent on protecting society that they're obsessing over the condemnation of this specific offence, then may I suggest you channel those energies to other worthy causes too, otherwise it just looks like voyeurism and spite.

If we all spent all of our time condemning all offenses of a similar nature then none of us would have any time to do anything else. Sad but true. The simple fact that a convicted rapist could become a role model for kids should ring alarm bells, no matter who the person or what the sport/profession.

[acko]

so now we know the person that started the on line poll is female radical actavist,dont we call radical muslum actavist trouble

[Muttley]

Is that her official job title?

I happen to agree with her views...does that make me a troublesome male radical activist? I'll wear that badge with pride!

[wilts rover]

and 40000 people agree with her at the last count, thats a lot of activism

we also know that Evan's victim has been forced to move house 5 times due to the actions of his supporters - would you care to discuss their 'activism'?

[acko]

is that a known fact wilts that her moves are down to evans supporters or is it your opinion,she could be baby p mother flat they gave her with her new name not big enough for her,or like her from castlford flat not on sea front with her new name,maybe the girl in question wants her place nearer the pub,or have you forgot the drugs she had taken maybe too far away from her supplier

[wilts rover]

it is if you belive what is written in the link SM posted above. However if you live in your own fantasy world then it doesnt matter what anyone else writes does it?

[Wiltshire Exile]

Also, drunken consent is still seen to be consent.

Really? Definition of consent from the OED: Permission for something to happen or agreement to do something. If the victim was drunk, how on earth could she give consent?
Whatever, the fact remains that on the evidence put forward, Evans was found guilty beyond all reasonable doubt by the jury. And, for me, that is what really matters.

[bobjimwilly]

is that a known fact wilts that her moves are down to evans supporters or is it your opinion,she could be baby p mother flat they gave her with her new name not big enough for her,or like her from castlford flat not on sea front with her new name,maybe the girl in question wants her place nearer the pub,or have you forgot the drugs she had taken maybe too far away from her supplier

have you re-read the b*llocks that you just typed?

[Dr Fundlekrotch]

is that a known fact wilts that her moves are down to evans supporters or is it your opinion,she could be baby p mother flat they gave her with her new name not big enough for her,or like her from castlford flat not on sea front with her new name,maybe the girl in question wants her place nearer the pub,or have you forgot the drugs she had taken maybe too far away from her supplier

have you re-read the b*llocks that you just typed?

I just wasted time reading it