Ched Evans to sign for oldham

[wilts rover]

I was just about to post something similar there Billy (although in a much less erudite and reasoned way) as you are only repeating what was said ealier in this thread, it was social media that happened.

Tommy whilst you can bring up the quite impressive list of unsavoury characters we have had play for us in the past you forget there was actually quite a lot of moral outrage over the possible signing of Lee Hughes. Whether or not this played a part in us not going for him I dont know, but yes it has happened.

Is a footballer different to any other job? Does it matter to you who is wearing/kissing the badge on the shirt of the team you support? Quite clearly for some it does, for others it doesn't.

Askern, if you cant tell the difference between someone booking a hotel room, getting a taxi, getting his mates ready to film, lying to get the key for the hotel room - all before he has even met the woman, and the scenario you describe, then it's pointless debating it with you.

[TommyC]

I agree with you about what's changed Billy. It's clearly the power of the media, not just the print press and TV but also internet forums and social media. I also agree that the advances in this area over the last 10/15 years has without question placed us in a situation where things like Saville couldn't realistically be swept under the carpet these days. I'm in agreement with you over all that. Who couldn't be?! 

I do however think there's a fine line. Whilst you talk of this as a revolution and seem to see it as a positive, we do now seem to live in a society where absolutely everything is "fair game" in the media and that is a dangerous thing. There are many people who slavishly lap up whatever it is that the media tells them to believe without filtering out the spin and the bu**sh*t. That can have a frightening effect on how people behave. As I say, I'm cynical about some of the moral outrage I see demonstrated by people when that outrage seems to be based on what they read in the papers or on Twitter/Facebook. People seem to feel obliged to think in a certain way about certain things these days. A similar example in my eyes would be public outpourings of grief for people they don't even know, flowers left at the roadside for people they've never even met, coach trips to Soham.....it just feels like people are being told that they have to think in a certain way and if they don't do so, then they are of questionable morals.  Some might say that it's wonderful that society has become so caring, sensitive and morally upright, but I genuinely don't believe that it has. People espouse these values publicly because they are told that is how they should think and behave. And yes, I do believe that is the product of what is, and always has been, a left-leaning media in this country. 

I'm all for an open and honest debate over the Ched Evans issue and I respect anyone who genuinely feels so strongly about the matter that they would no longer support their football club. I think if I had to ask myself, hand on heart, do I care that much about his crime to actually stop watching my football club, my answer would probably be no. I pretty certain I'd still go and watch them. Should I feel bad about myself for thinking like that? Society and the media seems to tell me that I should.

With regards Mr Kelly, I knew what he'd done at the time. I remember standing on the terraces at BV discussing it. I was fully aware of it and it never crossed my mind to stop watching the Rovers. Yes me and my old man found it a little unsavoury and we'd often refer to him as a scumbag or a wrong-un etc but still we went and paid our money. I think more people knew about it than you give them credit for. I assume you knew about it too. I agree with your argument about how people now have access to more information that they previously did, that is unquestionable. What I can't see is the reason or explanation for the actual change in morals that means you'd be indifferent to crimes you knew about 15 years ago but you wouldn't be indifferent to today. That isn't just a product of you having access to more information, it demonstrates a fundamental change in your moral compass. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, I'm simply trying to question why your attitude has changed. 

[Askern_reds]

Sorry idm, I may av missed that point by bst? But who's gunna be honest and say they been with a woman who's totally pissed at back of a night club? So the Same could av happened to them what's happened to Evans , and this is my last say on this, it dosent matter how pissed you are if u don't want it you put up a f**king good fight to stop it, none of us there like you say? He's shouting is innocence so let the law decide and seen as there's no law to state he can't play then he's got to be allowed to play ? Oldham av decided to take the chance on him so that's there choice. Them n them alone take the consequence of there actions, so if fans don't want to wach him that's there choice so let's leave it at that ?

[Retdon1]

Deal is off

[BillyStubbsTears]

Askern

it dosent matter how pissed you are if u don't want it you put up a f***ing good fight to stop it,

A little true story for you. I suggest you read it. Carefully.

 I used to go out with a lass, 25 years ago. Lovely girl. Kind, caring, funny but with a real hang-up about intimacy (not just sexual - any kind of affectionate contact). She never talked about it. I loved her to bits but it used to drive me up the wall.

After we'd split up, I bumped into her friend. She told me the background. At 17, my ex had been to a party. Got off with a lad she liked. They ended up in a bedroom, him pissed, her not so much. They fumbled and she wanted it to stop there. She asked him to stop. He didn't.

She didn't fight it. Because she didn't know how to make it stop. She accepted it as her fault. She didn't speak to anyone about it for months before finally confiding in her friend. She never mentioned it to me.

Your comment about how anyone would "fight it" is so spectacularly ignorant that I don't know where to start. It betrays an utter lack of any understanding of what (some) real people are like. YOU would fight it, therefore EVERYONE must be like you and anyone who isn't, doesn't really want it to stop.

There are thousands upon thousands of women who have had similar experiences to my ex girlfriend. You would say that none of them had been raped because they didn't fight it. And didn't complain afterwards.

It is the normalisation of that sort of behaviour by attitudes like yours which sickens and disgusts me. It treats people as objects to be f***ed unless they actively fight it.

[Askern_reds]

Sorry bst but you said one thing and I don't mean to upset anyone your ex said no?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Askern

From what her friend told me, she'd said no, but he was either too pissed to take it on board or thought she didn't mean it. But the crucial thing is that, after he didn't stop, she accepted it. She didn't fight because she didn't know what to do. 

[acko]

it seems the oldham deal is off,but before the cheers coming out of the people who agree with this,food for thought,one of doncasters own served time for underage sex that makes him i beleave a paedophile on release straight back to work at chelsea and went on to manage 3 british clubs,then we have the case of the person who was sentenced to 6 years for brutal rape,had by far a bigger profile that evans has,will have or hope to have.returned to his sport and sponsers were queing up to sign him on,they still are world tours and the like interviews on tv no problem.so surely this means double standards.football and oldham in particular have bowed down by mob  rule and the power of sponsers,this could just be the start

[bobjimwilly]

mob rule? get a grip.
it would only be double standards if the same people who are against Evans being re-signed by a football club were for any of the cases you mentioned, which I'm sure they aren't.

What is worrying is the number of people who are all for a convicted rapist becoming a role model for children.

[Not Now Kato]

it seems the oldham deal is off,but before the cheers coming out of the people who agree with this,food for thought,one of doncasters own served time for underage sex that makes him i beleave a paedophile on release straight back to work at chelsea and went on to manage 3 british clubs,then we have the case of the person who was sentenced to 6 years for brutal rape,had by far a bigger profile that evans has,will have or hope to have.returned to his sport and sponsers were queing up to sign him on,they still are world tours and the like interviews on tv no problem.so surely this means double standards.football and oldham in particular have bowed down by mob  rule and the power of sponsers,this could just be the start

The failures of the past do not mean that they should be perpetuated into the future.
 
We used to send small boys up chimneys to clean them............................

[acko]

what i am saying bobjim the people and one in particular was allowed back into their sport and one at the highest level possible and very little was made of the offence he committed

[Askern_reds]

You on about fix acko?

[Donnywolf]

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSdQj_QACDgA0rz2TqkRwcWrU4rkhCj3tA-KpRS-jLgi5XsCiC9oQ

On Off On Off

Up down Up down (no pun intended)

Yo Yo Yo Yo

[acko]

for you askern the people i talk about are graham rix and iron mike tyson,who i might ad two brits were glad to fight for the money it generated

[IDM]

I am not quite sure how a large amount of people expressing an opinion that a convicted unrepentant rapist should not be signed on as a professional footballer (many more I assume than say he should) amounts to mob rule?

Sounds more like democracy to me.

[IDM]

So the Same could av happened to them what's happened to Evans , and this is my last say on this, it dosent matter how pissed you are if u don't want it you put up a f**king good fight to stop it, none of us there like you say?

I just hope askern, that you never have to experience one of your relatives or friends being subject to rape, attempted rape, sexual assault etc, with attitudes like yours.... especially where there is no 3rd party evidence to back up the victim therefore crimes go unpunished.

[acko]

there was no third party evidence against evans ,not even a complaint it as been assumed she was too drunk to consent a good scream would have stopped it but the porter never heard that

[IDM]

acko I was not talking about the Evans case.

[acko]

it as just been stated that death threats had been made against the oldham board bobjim now that to me is mob rule,

[Filo]

there was no third party evidence against evans ,not even a complaint it as been assumed she was too drunk to consent a good scream would have stopped it but the porter never heard that

I've no idea if you have a daughter or not acko, but lets just say you replace the girl with your daughter and have the exact same circumstances, would you still hold the same opinions?

[acko]

i appologise IDM

[IDM]

it as just been stated that death threats had been made against the oldham board bobjim now that to me is mob rule,

Threats like that are out of order, acko, I agree with you.

Withdrawing support (fans) and withdrawing funding (sponsors) is all well and good, but personal threats devalue the real and democratic protests.

[The Red Baron]

Will those folk who were not going to Oldham due to the potential Evans signing now be going?

[roversdude]

doncaster teacher recently banned from his career for commiting something that was not even illegal

[acko]

yes i do have daughters filo,i also have sons,so i ask you the same question if it had been your son would you feel same.its not my intention to argue with you but to me if the law says he can play he should be allowed to play,if the law is changed as per school teachers then we wouldnt be having this debate

[Askern_reds]

Sorry idm what attitude ? A women says no that's rape and you feel for the woman who's frightened to say anything , a women says no and puts up a fight to fend of her attacker ? That's rape, in both circumstances the lad involved should av there knakers kicked in. But this women did neither? So we're you get attitude from?

[Dutch Uncle]

Whether or not anyone is happy or unhappy at the Oldham decision, all threats of violence should be totally deplored.

While I understand Evans keeping quiet with an appeal pending I do think that he should publicly condemn any of his 'supporters' hounding the victim. Equally the leaders of petitions (Jean Hackett?) should publicly deplore any threats made to Oldham.

In general it is my opinion that Evans would have been better advised to wait for his appeal to run its course before trying to return to football. Then he could either be proved innocent, or if not at least he could have no excuse for not being publicly fully repentant.

[Copps is Magic]

it as just been stated that death threats had been made against the oldham board bobjim now that to me is mob rule,

Just like Ched Evan's website, I don't believe everything I read. If there have been death threats then they should absolutely report them to the police. It is obviously very wrong if there have been and no one should condone that for a second.

But I reiterate the point I made earlier - this has all been about money for Oldham - part of a long-line of schemes drawn up by the owners. The pull-out of sponsors and threat of a boycott from a section of the fans is what has swayed their decision.

The economics of signing Evans simply now do not add up for any medium to small professional club in the country.

[IDM]

Askern " it dosent matter how pissed you are if u don't want it you put up a f**king good fight to stop it"

What if you can't?  What if you are too frightened, or too drunk?

That's what I mean. You still keep on referring back to the Evans case but the point I raise is general. Also you could deduce from your statement that if you don't put up a fight, then you do want it!!!

[IDM]

DU - agree 100%