Ched Evans to sign for oldham

[acko]

sorry copps you seem to be accusing the oldham board of telling lies,its them that reported it and i beleave them

[Filo]

yes i do have daughters filo,i also have sons,so i ask you the same question if it had been your son would you feel same.its not my intention to argue with you but to me if the law says he can play he should be allowed to play,if the law is changed as per school teachers then we wouldnt be having this debate

Unlike you acko, I'll answer your question, if it was my Son and he was convicted according to the law of the land I would expect him to serve his punishment, I would alsoexpect him to keep his head down and join society withoutdrawing attention to himself, at least until after any appeal. He'd also get a good hiding for putting himself in that position

Now will you answer my original question?

[Copps is Magic]

sorry copps you seem to be accusing the oldham board of telling lies,its them that reported it and i beleave them

No, I am saying I don't believe the reason the deal is off is death-threats. It is money. Secondly, if there have been death threats don't report them to the media, report them to the police and then we can hear through them what line of inquiry they are taking.

[Jonathan]

Oldham are entitled to do whatever they like, that's been my argument all along and still is now that they've decided not to go through with the deal. However I believe criminal proceedings should be brought against anyone responsible for making violent threats in response to this potential signing. Taking the supposed moral highroad should never be an excuse for this kind of behaviour. It is "mob rule," and it's not right.

It's such a complicated situation, none of us on here know all of the facts and no matter how much people rake over it, they're not going to uncover the one piece of evidence that conclusively proves he's guilty or innocent of the specific crime. Given the situation, it's a decision made based on the burden of proof beyond reasonable doubt, based purely on circumstantial evidence and conflicting accounts. By its very nature that will always result in differing perspectives of what's actually happened, as only three people can possibly know for certain in this case, and it appears none of them do. Likewise, those that are so certain Evans has displayed no contrition cannot be absolutely so. Given that the case is not exactly slammed shut at present, we don't know what advice Evans has taken from his legal team about what he can and can't say. It would be stupid to suppose he's taken no advice at all, and given the appeal / review, it's highly unlikely that he would logically provide his own summing up at this stage.

What he has tried to do, rightly or wrongly, is resume his football career, which is his absolute legal right to do. Those relying on the legal system to support their views on what he's said to have done surely cannot then override or dismiss its powers in respect of restricting what he does now. He's obviously come up against staunch resistance on the basis of exercising his legal right to pursue a career, and freedom of speech allows people to oppose this as they wish, but it should not be a misguided justification for mob rule.

[Copps is Magic]

sorry copps you seem to be accusing the oldham board of telling lies,its them that reported it and i beleave them

No, I am saying I don't believe the reason the deal is off is death-threats. It is money. Secondly, if there have been death threats don't report them to the media, report them to the police and then we can hear through them what line of inquiry they are taking.

And just to add to my point. Everyone seems to be criticising this 'mob-rule' which is emerging through social media and the like but the point is by conducting their affairs through the media and through publicity (like Oldham and Ched Evan's website has done) they are responding in exactly the same way. They're playing the game and they know it.

When people result to conducting their affairs in this way, and not through the proper structures we've already created in society (i.e. the police, the courts, the probation services) we're left with half-truths and exaggerated facts and I don't trust any of it to be honest (on both sides).

[IDM]

Jonathon, I don't think anyone is objecting specifically to the legal rights that Evans has to resume his career - the law is the law - more that it is inappropriate for the club they support to employ a convicted rapist.

For the record, I also disagree with the protests descending into threats.  As with any such, that should be dealt with by the police.

[Jonathan]

Lots of things in society are inappropriate. That alone cannot surely be the root of all this.

[Copps is Magic]

What he has tried to do, rightly or wrongly, is resume his football career, which is his absolute legal right to do. Those relying on the legal system to support their views on what he's said to have done surely cannot then override or dismiss its powers in respect of restricting what he does now. He's obviously come up against staunch resistance on the basis of exercising his legal right to pursue a career, and freedom of speech allows people to oppose this as they wish, but it should not be a misguided justification for mob rule.

It is correct that he has a legal right to sign for a football club and play football. It is not clear he has a legal right to carry all the responsibilities required by a footballer. Such as, community work (which if we take a club likes ours as an example is an important part of the job) or foreign travel (again we have a pre-season abroad most years). Depending on your definition of 'free' Ched Evans is currently not a free man and is serving out the remainder of his sentence and the conditions laid down by it.

Admittedly, it is somewhere between the law and governing bodies of football which have created this situation and it is not Ched Evans fault. But any club signing him while his sentence is not over or his latest case is heard is going to face the same issues.

[acko]

to answer your question filo.i dont know how i would feel if it was my daughter,but i must admit there would be nagging doubts in my mind,A)what she doing having cocaine and cannibis in her system,B)why did she feel the need to get so drunk she didnt know what shes doing.C)what made her get into a taxi and go back to an hotel with a man did she think it was for a game of scrabbleD)..how can you have sex with someone and not know about it.E)is it something she does on a regular basis,F)and finally did i fail somewhere in bringing her up.as for my son if he told me he didnt do anything wrong or without her consent i hope i would beleive him and help to clear his name

[Copps is Magic]

to answer your question filo.i dont know how i would feel if it was my daughter,but i must admit there would be nagging doubts in my mind,A)what she doing having cocaine and cannibis in her system,B)why did she feel the need to get so drunk she didnt know what shes doing.C)what made her get into a taxi and go back to an hotel with a man did she think it was for a game of scrabbleD)..how can you have sex with someone and not know about it.E)is it something she does on a regular basis,F)and finally did i fail somewhere in bringing her up.as for my son if he told me he didnt do anything wrong or without her consent i hope i would beleive him and help to clear his name

So you would apply a rigorous cross-examination of your daughter and believe the first thing your son tells you? Thank god the actual law doesn't work in this way.

[Filo]

to answer your question filo.i dont know how i would feel if it was my daughter,but i must admit there would be nagging doubts in my mind,A)what she doing having cocaine and cannibis in her system,B)why did she feel the need to get so drunk she didnt know what shes doing.C)what made her get into a taxi and go back to an hotel with a man did she think it was for a game of scrabbleD)..how can you have sex with someone and not know about it.E)is it something she does on a regular basis,F)and finally did i fail somewhere in bringing her up.as for my son if he told me he didnt do anything wrong or without her consent i hope i would beleive him and help to clear his name

So you'd believe your Son but not your daughter?

[bpoolrover]

Id love to be your daughter acko lol

[GazLaz]

Surely if he just wants to get on with his life he should just get a job at Argos out of the public eye. He doesn't want to get on with his life he wants to get earning the big dollar again.

[acko]

i didnt say i would doubt my daughter or subject her to any form ofrigorous cross examinanation i said it would put nagging doubts in my mind there is a difference,and to add further comments to this  dont you think the trouble this case is causing it gives the appeal court cause to bring it foreward it will as it stands another 8 months before its resolved

[IDM]

I don't know how long the legal proceedings take normally, but it has been said that the latest review is being fast tracked? 

I assume folks will be reading the Ched Evans statement via the PFA this lunchtime?

My concern is this - why the hell didn't a similar statement come out on his release from prison? I believe his rehabilitation may have been aided had he done that?  But it has only come out now, once Oldham has said no.

[Dagenham Rover]

Crikey he's sort of apologising now

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30727380

[Jonathan]

Surely if he just wants to get on with his life he should just get a job at Argos out of the public eye. He doesn't want to get on with his life he wants to get earning the big dollar again.

Why should Argos be able to employ him but not Oldham Athletic? Or are you suggesting shop workers are not important in society but footballers are? What if Argos wanted to make him their CEO on more money than Oldham would've paid him?

[IDM]

Surely if he just wants to get on with his life he should just get a job at Argos out of the public eye. He doesn't want to get on with his life he wants to get earning the big dollar again.

Why should Argos be able to employ him but not Oldham Athletic? Or are you suggesting shop workers are not important in society but footballers are? What if Argos wanted to make him their CEO on more money than Oldham would've paid him?

I think the point here was "out of the public eye"?

[IDM]

Crikey he's sort of apologising now

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30727380

Too late, should have been done on his release from prison - his legal team had what, 2 1/2 years to think about it!

[GazLaz]

Surely if he just wants to get on with his life he should just get a job at Argos out of the public eye. He doesn't want to get on with his life he wants to get earning the big dollar again.

Why should Argos be able to employ him but not Oldham Athletic? Or are you suggesting shop workers are not important in society but footballers are? What if Argos wanted to make him their CEO on more money than Oldham would've paid him?

I think the point here was "out of the public eye"?

Yes it was.

[acko]

he is taking advice from solicitors which he should the appology is not an admittance of kind,but i would now like to see an appology from the people what started the recent poll which has caused this mob rule

[Donnywolf]

... once he is linked to another Club that someone can paste the 8 Page thread " Ched Evans to sign for Oldham" as the op of the inevitable " Ched Evans signing for (insert name of Club )"

In that way we WONT have to go through the whole thing again 



Its a bit like watching one programme of Wanted Down Under - you can CHOOSE to watch a second one but only the names of the people are different and so it would be if he is linked to another Club

[acko]

my post regarding the doubts put in my mind if the girl in question had been my daughter and the support i would give my son if he was the guilty party tries to illustrate me as an uncareing parent,on the contery they would both recieve my support but is there any man on here hand on heart would not have the same doubts reading the transcript of the trial,and what man would not defend his son if he felt the wrong verdict was given,if there is i can only assume you dont give a shite what your kids are doing.i can only hope my family are not like those concerned but like any father you cant be with them 24/7

[acko]

i agree with you donneywolf and i will make this my last post on the matter,what i do think its brought to the fore the role of sponsers,patrons,and the power of mob rule in decision making by football clubs which cannot be good for the game,on line petitions can cause nothing but trouble on a topic of this and like issues.

[Copps is Magic]

Oldham Chairman has quit the club this afternoon apparently.

http://www.oldham-chronicle.co.uk/news-features/8/news-headlines/89746/corney-quits-as-ched-deal-off

[bobjimwilly]

i agree with you donneywolf and i will make this my last post on the matter,what i do think its brought to the fore the role of sponsers,patrons,and the power of mob rule in decision making by football clubs which cannot be good for the game,on line petitions can cause nothing but trouble on a topic of this and like issues.

 

[idler]

my post regarding the doubts put in my mind if the girl in question had been my daughter and the support i would give my son if he was the guilty party tries to illustrate me as an uncareing parent,on the contery they would both recieve my support but is there any man on here hand on heart would not have the same doubts reading the transcript of the trial,and what man would not defend his son if he felt the wrong verdict was given,if there is i can only assume you dont give a shite what your kids are doing.i can only hope my family are not like those concerned but like any father you cant be with them 24/7

The thing is Acko that she met the first guy and went back with him.
He left and Evans who she didn't know arrived having gone out of his way to be with her. He only went there expecting sex.
Was she so drunk that she was barely conscious or thought that it was The first guy again?
He comes out of it with no credit whatsoever.

[acko]

i am not arguing with you idler but you must admit her behaviour in all of it must make a father think

[Glyn_Wigley]

i agree with you donneywolf and i will make this my last post on the matter,what i do think its brought to the fore the role of sponsers,patrons,and the power of mob rule in decision making by football clubs which cannot be good for the game,on line petitions can cause nothing but trouble on a topic of this and like issues.

I have yet to hear of an online petitionn that has ever achieved anything at all.

[acko]

you have now the media  and even on here keep mention it