CLUB WILL LOOSE ST HOLDERS

[Donny Viking]

Good idea but poorly implemented - AGAIN!

I have a season ticket in corner of south stand and had it since we moved to KM - I take my little lad and a couple of his mates.  We don't make it to every game, but I know I've got my seats with my mates and the people around us are very friendly and tone their behavior to the kids when I take them.  If its unreserved  then I could have any numpty shouting abuse near the kids, the benefit of the season ticket is gone.  I'll pick and chose which games I go to (probably be less as I've not paid up front).  Donny you've potentially just lost 2 adults, 3 kids and a couple of senior season ticket holders.

If you are worried about how people behave around your kids then go buy season tickets in the family stand?

My kids are getting older and don't come to every match - I don't want to be in the family area with all the screaming hyperactive young kids, especially when mine are not there.  I'm happy with the seat/area I've sat in for the last 5  years, my mates sit there, the lads around me have good banter, the occasional expletive comes out and this is fine for the kids because of the context.  I'm happy with the current environment, I can turn up at kick off (which I often have to do) and know what I'm getting.  I don't take my lad to away games because of the excessive language of some fans (no context just swearing every other word for the sake of it).  All I'm pointing out is whilst this may encourage some new fans, it will also turn others away.  I could pay more and move to the sides, but not sure I want to do that, nor that my friends and father can afford it.  If I cant find a compromise that suits all (friends and family) then we will not renew is all I'm saying - which is a shame as I've already put the money aside for next season tickets and was a definite renew.

[JBRover]

When we moved to the Keepmoat we chose 3 seats that we wanted and preferred.  They were fairly central, next to the steps for ease of access, row P so that the view towards the North end goal was pretty good and far enough back that the view wasn't compromised due to goal posts.  We (me & 2 sons) also wanted to be more or less in the right area for the atmosphere but didn't really want to be in the thick of it.
The idea was that we were guaranteed good seats whenever we entered the stadium, be it 14.00hrs or 14.45hrs on a Saturday.  The days were over when we used to enter Belle Vue at 13.15hrs to make sure that we could stand at our preferred rail on the Town End.  The seats at the Keepmoat were reserved for us whether we were doing well and the south stand was busy, all of that has been taken away.  We have renewed our season tickets every year on the early bird offer since we moved to the Keepmoat, this guaranteed our preferred seats.
Whenever we go to away games we always try to avoid the bottom few rows of seats because of the limited view.  Under the new scheme, if we were challenging for promotion and the south stand was busy, would we get decent seats if we enter the ground at 14.30hrs, maybe but not guaranteed.  Would we be able to get 3 seats situated adjacent to the steps, probably not.  For me and my 2 sons the only benefit next season of being a season ticket holder is that we save a few quid which isn't our main reason for being a season ticket holder. We have been given no choice other than move to another part of the ground and choose seats from what is left.  When we chose our current seats 'off plan' we were one of the first and had a real choice of location in the south stand so to say that we are very disappointed is an understatement and we probably won't be renewing this year but perhaps choose our games.
In principal the idea is a good one but the singing sections are located in various stands now and some of these people prefer to sit/stand in the west others prefer the south.  Will this force all of these people into the south stand, I doubt it very much and if the number of season ticket holders in the south stand is as low as suggested perhaps the unreserved seating could have been limited to a section within the south stand rather than the whole of the stand.  Notification from the club with alternate arrangements for STH in this stand may have been a more courteous approach rather than implementation without a second thought for existing and loyal fans!!

[STABNASTY]

I'm the same as you JBRover, I got first dibs on the seats as I had a box (portakabin) at Belle Vue however there are less boxes at the Keepmoat so we were one of the groups that had to find seats instead.
People saying come early to get your seat . What happens when i get there if me and my mates want a quick  beer before the game as we usually do, We get there early, pick our seats , go for a beer come back out just as the teams are coming out and someone else is sat in them.  Are you telling me this wont happen.
 I think if the club are making the SS unreserved then make all the ground the same. Dont just pick on the SS ticket holders as there are fewer of us and the people in the NW section. See how the others react. 20 years I have had either a season ticket or a box, I have paid around £2800 in season tickets each year for my group since the Keepmoat opened and always renewed early which helps the club with the cash flow.
I dont see a problem with letting existing season ticket holders keep their seats and making all the rest unreserved and dont let any new ticket holders reserve seats in future. 1 poxy sticker per seat isn't going to hurt and will keep everyone happy and due to the small number of us that we keep hearing about there will still be plenty of space for the singers to congregate.

[Filo]

1 poxy sticker per seat isn't going to hurt and will keep everyone happy and due to the small number of us that we keep hearing about there will still be plenty of space for the singers to congregate.

Give over, that idea is way to logical to be considered.

What would happen in that scenario is that the people with reserved seats who did n't like the new arrangments would migrate naturally, once those seats are given up they would then become unavailable to buy as season tickets again, problem solved without the complaints

[STABNASTY]

1 poxy sticker per seat isn't going to hurt and will keep everyone happy and due to the small number of us that we keep hearing about there will still be plenty of space for the singers to congregate.

Give over, that idea is way to logical to be considered.

What would happen in that scenario is that the people with reserved seats who did n't like the new arrangments would migrate naturally, once those seats are given up they would then become unavailable to buy as season tickets again, problem solved without the complaints

Surely someone could put this to the club

[The Red Baron]

Playing Devil's Advocate here, but isn't the problem with SS ticket holders keeping their existing seats that they might find themselves in the middle of a group who want to stand up and sing?

[Filo]

1 poxy sticker per seat isn't going to hurt and will keep everyone happy and due to the small number of us that we keep hearing about there will still be plenty of space for the singers to congregate.

Give over, that idea is way to logical to be considered.

What would happen in that scenario is that the people with reserved seats who did n't like the new arrangments would migrate naturally, once those seats are given up they would then become unavailable to buy as season tickets again, problem solved without the complaints

Surely someone could put this to the club

Like I've previously stated, it doesn't affect me, but there's nothing to stop you contacting the club yourself to propose such arrangements, at least that way you know your issues are being heard

[Jenny]

Playing Devil's Advocate here, but isn't the problem with SS ticket holders keeping their existing seats that they might find themselves in the middle of a group who want to stand up and sing?

That is exactly the point. For it to work in the way it is intended it has to be a blanket approach, otherwise you could end up with someone who has season tickets right in the middle/rear of the South Stand who refuses to stand and therefore ruin the whole thing.

[Filo]

Playing Devil's Advocate here, but isn't the problem with SS ticket holders keeping their existing seats that they might find themselves in the middle of a group who want to stand up and sing?

Like I've said TRB, they would still have the option of staying put and living with the new arrangements or they would migrate naturally if they did n't like it. The issue here for me is that the club have totally disregarded long standing season ticket holders, people who help the club with their cash flow, in favour of many people who don't have season tickets, pick and choose what games they attend, and in some cases probably abused the free tickets they get by selling them on.

Having said that, I think something needed doing and in principle the idea is a good one, but as usual it appears not one second of thought has been put in on how to implement it

[Dagenham Rover]

    

[The Red Baron]

I'm thinking of away games where the "sit in your allocated seat" policy has been adhered to. I invariably end up behind someone who wants to stand up. If it is "sit where you like" I can usually find somewhere where I can stay seated.

[STABNASTY]

The beauty of my seats is i have nobody infront of me that is why i picked them J377-380 totally clear view, that is why I chose them.

[JBRover]

Playing Devil's Advocate here, but isn't the problem with SS ticket holders keeping their existing seats that they might find themselves in the middle of a group who want to stand up and sing?

Like I've said TRB, they would still have the option of staying put and living with the new arrangements or they would migrate naturally if they did n't like it. The issue here for me is that the club have totally disregarded long standing season ticket holders, people who help the club with their cash flow, in favour of many people who don't have season tickets, pick and choose what games they attend, and in some cases probably abused the free tickets they get by selling them on.

Having said that, I think something needed doing and in principle the idea is a good one, but as usual it appears not one second of thought has been put in on how to implement it

Yes that is a fair point but we haven't been given an option to choose 3 seats together away from the central position if that was a concern.  My main grievance is that we can't guarantee a seat of our choice unless we turn up at stupid o'clock. If we enter the stadium at our usual time, 14.30hrs we will have to make do with what is available at that time.  For example when we are playing Leeds next season ; ) will we get 3 seats together, if so will they be on the first row, the club have shown that they don't give flying **** about the loyal season ticket holders that chose their original seats for a reason!   

[STABNASTY]

Who actually thinks doing this will boost attendences significantly. Playing attractive football and winning home games naturally brings in the crowds which in effect gives you a better atmosphere. If we do this and play like we were doing earlier in the season at home the crowds won't go up just because we have a singing section, they might go down though with people not renewing season tickets as they no longer have a reserved seat. I get the feeling I love my hometown team a hell of a lot more than it loves and appreciates me at the moment.

[The Red Baron]

I'm just wondering what would pee me off more. Being told I couldn't keep the seat I've had since we moved to the Moat or rocking up to the first game of next season and finding myself in the middle of the singing / standing area. I honestly don't know the answer.

[Dagenham Rover]

I'm just wondering what would pee me off more. Being told I couldn't keep the seat I've had since we moved to the Moat or rocking up to the first game of next season and finding myself in the middle of the singing / standing area. I honestly don't know the answer.

Tbh we know where our seats are and would have a pretty good idea whether we would be affected by the singing section, we know where they congregate now in the ss and there is no reason to presume they are going to move significantly certainly with the present numbers

[Donnywolf]

I'm just wondering what would pee me off more. Being told I couldn't keep the seat I've had since we moved to the Moat or rocking up to the first game of next season and finding myself in the middle of the singing / standing area. I honestly don't know the answer.

A tough call for sure

I would be miffed if I was ejected from my chosen seat U641 .... I had graduated there having tried 2 other spots. It is not perfect (leg room is almost Sheff U standard) but with it being the Back Row there are no sprogs like against Brizzle booting the back of my Seat for 90 plus minutes

However it would be compounded if I then had to endure people standing all the game as lots do away and lots of away Teams do at KMS. Not everyone wants to or indeed CAN stand at games for 90 minutes and havind paid to watch it is annoying when someone is jumping up evry time Rovers "attack"

That said I was one of the people that put out the T Shirts before the first ever game and having been in almost every row and every height there are not that many bad views - but I know that is not compensation for those who seek a "fixed" view and / or amenities like end of Ailse etc

This has not added anything to this debate I know but it has become largely cyclical anyway

[weststander]

Playing Devil's Advocate here, but isn't the problem with SS ticket holders keeping their existing seats that they might find themselves in the middle of a group who want to stand up and sing?

So are we to assume that this plan will be the thin end of the wedge and will lead to wide scale standing in the South stand, which I cannot believe is the club's intention. There was no mention of standing being allowed in the official statement

[Jenny]

Of course there is no official mention of standing being allowed, given that it is against ground regulations the club aren't going to plaster it all over... my understanding is that there will be relaxed stewarding, therefore if people chose to stand, they won't be forced to sit.

I can't believe all this fuss, if we are still in League One next season the ground will be a third full and there will be plenty of seats to chose from, even if the person picking them has very specific requirements. Even when we were in the Championship I had a season ticket in the West Stand that I never sat in, I just wandered round to the South and there were plenty of decent ones to chose from.

I have never had a happy home at the Keepmoat aside from the first 1/2 season as I always end up sat near the moaners or people who like to provide a running commentary of the game that being able to see, I don't need... therefore the South Stand being unreserved is perfect for this, forget the arguments, if I end up round people who annoy me, I can just move away from them. Easy.

[The Red Baron]

Playing Devil's Advocate here, but isn't the problem with SS ticket holders keeping their existing seats that they might find themselves in the middle of a group who want to stand up and sing?

So are we to assume that this plan will be the thin end of the wedge and will lead to wide scale standing in the South stand, which I cannot believe is the club's intention. There was no mention of standing being allowed in the official statement

I think it was said earlier that "singing section" is a euphemism for "we'll turn a blind eye to persistent standing." I can see this being the case in the SS next season.

[Dagenham Rover]

Of course there is no official mention of standing being allowed, given that it is against ground regulations the club aren't going to plaster it all over... my understanding is that there will be relaxed stewarding, therefore if people chose to stand, they won't be forced to sit.

I can't believe all this fuss, if we are still in League One next season the ground will be a third full and there will be plenty of seats to chose from, even if the person picking them has very specific requirements. Even when we were in the Championship I had a season ticket in the West Stand that I never sat in, I just wandered round to the South and there were plenty of decent ones to chose from.

I have never had a happy home at the Keepmoat aside from the first 1/2 season as I always end up sat near the moaners or people who like to provide a running commentary of the game that being able to see, I don't need... therefore the South Stand being unreserved is perfect for this, forget the arguments, if I end up round people who annoy me, I can just move away from them. Easy.

Jenny its how its been done with no thought, regard or even proper consultation with the existing  season ticket holders, don't mention the fans panels if a decision was going to be made (and nowhere on the Official site was it said a decision would be made, it said discussions) they should have encouraged existing season ticket holders to attend with a simple statement in the blurb then perhaps more would have attended and a truer perspective gained by the club

[The Red Baron]

I posted on the wrong thread but to me this shows the limitation of Fan Panels. The club has underestimated the strength of feeling.

[Dagenham Rover]

I posted on the wrong thread but to me this shows the limitation of Fan Panels. The club has underestimated the strength of feeling.

  exactly...........again

[wesisback]

And again I'll respond - the club shouldn't cloud the vocal few on here that are making it appear a bad decision. The majority of people I've had contact with have seen it as a positive move. The Facebook group have had the odd issue but by and large feedback has been good.

[weststander]

Of course there is no official mention of standing being allowed, given that it is against ground regulations the club aren't going to plaster it all over... my understanding is that there will be relaxed stewarding, therefore if people chose to stand, they won't be forced to sit.










I can't believe all this fuss, if we are still in League One next season the ground will be a third full and there will be plenty of seats to chose from, even if the person picking them has very specific requirements. Even when we were in the Championship I had a season ticket in the West Stand that I never sat in, I just wandered round to the South and there were plenty of decent ones to chose from.


I have never had a happy home at the Keepmoat aside from the first 1/2 season as I always end up sat near the moaners or people who like to provide a running commentary of the game that being able to see, I don't need... therefore the South Stand being unreserved is perfect for this, forget the arguments, if I end up round people who annoy me, I can just move away from them. Easy.

Jenny,
I am not against this and I do believe it is a good idea. However I do worry that those who believe you cannot sing while sitting will take the opportunity to stand against regulations. You say that the club will be relaxed about this but what happens if fans in other parts of the ground use their standing as a precedent which might well lead to disharmony in such areas?

[Jenny]

I can't imagine that those in the West or East will suddenly start standing of those in te South Stand do. I'm pretty sure the average age in those areas is about 60.... Non issue in my opinion. Those who want to stand will do so in the South.

[Dagenham Rover]

And again I'll respond - the club shouldn't cloud the vocal few on here that are making it appear a bad decision. The majority of people I've had contact with have seen it as a positive move. The Facebook group have had the odd issue but by and large feedback has been good.

and again not particularly a bad decision but very poorly implemented without proper thought

[The Red Baron]

And again I'll respond - the club shouldn't cloud the vocal few on here that are making it appear a bad decision. The majority of people I've had contact with have seen it as a positive move. The Facebook group have had the odd issue but by and large feedback has been good.

I can see arguments on both sides but I don't think the club is in a position where it can afford to alienate long-term STHs.

[Dagenham Rover]

And again I'll respond - the club shouldn't cloud the vocal few on here that are making it appear a bad decision. The majority of people I've had contact with have seen it as a positive move. The Facebook group have had the odd issue but by and large feedback has been good.

I can see arguments on both sides but I don't think the club is in a position where it can afford to alienate long-term STHs.

and by the figures quoted it seems not too far off 10% of season tickets holders are affected including the Wsn st holders   thats a fair old few the club risk alienating to one degree or another

[JBRover]

And again I'll respond - the club shouldn't cloud the vocal few on here that are making it appear a bad decision. The majority of people I've had contact with have seen it as a positive move. The Facebook group have had the odd issue but by and large feedback has been good.

I can see arguments on both sides but I don't think the club is in a position where it can afford to alienate long-term STHs.

Totally agree and you are bang on!

And for the record I'm not a moaner, I just like to know that my seats are guaranteed because I chose them and don't want to be split up or fobbed off with any old seat that I wouldn't normally want to sit it.  It's about choice and that has been taken away!