So much is wrong and so much has to change

[Copps is Magic]

Our government

The majority of people don't want a Tory government but we have a Tory government.

Scotland

Clearly can't stay in the Union in the same way. The fear mongering scare politics now has disproportionate effects on England. Local political representation must increase in England.

The invisble 5 million.

5 million votes between UKIP and the greens and 2 seats in the house of Parliament. 1.4 for the SNP, 50 of seats and it is apparently a revolution.

The Labour party.

Out of touch with the left wing in this country and progressive politics.


Democracy certainly wasn't a winner.

[drfchound]

Doesn't the fact that the Conservatives won more seats than anyone else indicate the a majority of people DO want a Conservative government?

[Filo]

Doesn't the fact that the Conservatives won more seats than anyone else indicate the a majority of people DO want a Conservative government?

No, 36%  of the electorate voted for the Conservatives, 64% didn't

[Underwood]

Doesn't the fact that the Conservatives won more seats than anyone else indicate the a majority of people DO want a Conservative government?

No, 36%  of the electorate voted for the Conservatives, 64% didn't

Would you be saying that if Labour had won? No.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

What's the alternative then given if it was anyone else it would be even less....

I mean think if it had been proportional it would clearly be a Tory and UKIP alliance in power - that would be worse...

On England well that vote was interesting, the Tories much further ahead in England...

[Filo]

Doesn't the fact that the Conservatives won more seats than anyone else indicate the a majority of people DO want a Conservative government?

No, 36%  of the electorate voted for the Conservatives, 64% didn't

Would you be saying that if Labour had won? No.

I was answering a question Michael, it's a fact regardless of where you stand politically 

[Glyn_Wigley]

Doesn't the fact that the Conservatives won more seats than anyone else indicate the a majority of people DO want a Conservative government?

No, 36%  of the electorate voted for the Conservatives, 64% didn't

Would you be saying that if Labour had won? No.

No, somebody else would. Possibly you.

[drfchound]

Yes underwood, i understand that,  but that would be true of any election where there are more than two parties to vote for wouldn't it.
I was merely pointing out that of the seats that were available to vote for, the Conservatives won the most of them.

[Copps is Magic]

The only defense for the current voting system is that people are actually voting for their local MP and not necesarily the national party to lead. But how many people actually make their voting decision based on this - how many actually know the name of their MP or think their MP is going to serve their area.

Certainly not those who voted UKIP or Green who most obviously vote for principles. By deduction, I would suggest its similar for other parties.

[glosterred]

Doesn't the fact that the Conservatives won more seats than anyone else indicate the a majority of people DO want a Conservative government?

No, 36%  of the electorate voted for the Conservatives, 64% didn't

And even more voters didn't want Labour!

[Filo]

Doesn't the fact that the Conservatives won more seats than anyone else indicate the a majority of people DO want a Conservative government?

No, 36%  of the electorate voted for the Conservatives, 64% didn't

And even more voters didn't want Labour!

True, by just 4%

[glosterred]

Doesn't the fact that the Conservatives won more seats than anyone else indicate the a majority of people DO want a Conservative government?

No, 36%  of the electorate voted for the Conservatives, 64% didn't

And even more voters didn't want Labour!

True, by just 4%

But more don't want Labour than don't want the Conservatives. We will always behaving this conversation as long as we have first past the post.

[bpoolrover]

What should it be changed to,unfortunately it's always the ones that lose that want to change it so there party can win

[Filo]

What should it be changed to,unfortunately it's always the ones that lose that want to change it so there party can win

I don't know what it needs changing to, I never said I wanted it changing either

[glosterred]

Proportional representation is a thought, but which style of proportional representation is another question.

[Underwood]

What should it be changed to,unfortunately it's always the ones that lose that want to change it so there party can win

I don't know what it needs changing to, I never said I wanted it changing either

Just looking for a reaction then?

[Filo]

What should it be changed to,unfortunately it's always the ones that lose that want to change it so there party can win

I don't know what it needs changing to, I never said I wanted it changing either

Just looking for a reaction then?

Not at all Michael, I'll leave that to you

[Underwood]

What should it be changed to,unfortunately it's always the ones that lose that want to change it so there party can win

I don't know what it needs changing to, I never said I wanted it changing either

Just looking for a reaction then?

Not at all Michael, I'll leave that to you

Who?

[IDM]

Doesn't the fact that the Conservatives won more seats than anyone else indicate the a majority of people DO want a Conservative government?

No, 36%  of the electorate voted for the Conservatives, 64% didn't

Not quite, 36-37% of those who voted, voted Conservative. Assuming (as estimated earlier today by the BBC) that two thirds of the electorate actually voted, then it is probably less than 25% of the electorate actually voted Conservative, and therefore over 75% didn't!

With the system now, the party taking the most seats can in theory have small majorities in each seat, and the second placed party have much larger majorities in each constituency so the winning party may have not got the most votes.

A solution?

Separate votes for the government and for local MPs.  Vote as now for the local MP, but for the government use proportional representation.  Again there may be an imbalance between the government votes and the proportional amount of MPs, but you would expect the party winning the government vote to get the most local MPs.

[bpoolrover]

What should it be changed to,unfortunately it's always the ones that lose that want to change it so there party can win

I don't know what it needs changing to, I never said I wanted it changing either

wasn't aimed at you filo it was just a general comment mate

[wing commander]

 I sort of understand the point but what you reap you sow....Even as a Tory voter myself I do struggle to understand how it's constitutenal how a party like ukip can have 2 million plus more votes than the snp and only have 1 seat against there 56 or so...

However the point that we are back in with a majority whilst you argue we had a minority vote loses its impact when if I remember right it was labour who last changed the boundarys of Scotland to help them get a majority...However I'm sure they didn't see this coming...

[drfchound]

The Conservatives got to the proposed winning line that they needed to do to win the election.
There has to be a target to reach to be declared the winner.
Is it any different to a say, a runner, who gets to the finishing line a split second before the man who comes in second.
The winner is, well the winner, not just the man who only just beat the one who came second.

It is a bit of a joke though that the SNP will have a big say in the ruling of England.
Did they even have a candidate in a vote south of the border?

[Filo]

What should it be changed to,unfortunately it's always the ones that lose that want to change it so there party can win

I don't know what it needs changing to, I never said I wanted it changing either

wasn't aimed at you filo it was just a general comment mate

Fair enough

[Wild Rover]

Doesn't the fact that the Conservatives won more seats than anyone else indicate the a majority of people DO want a Conservative government?

No, 36%  of the electorate voted for the Conservatives, 64% didn't

Not quite, 36-37% of those who voted, voted Conservative. Assuming (as estimated earlier today by the BBC) that two thirds of the electorate actually voted, then it is probably less than 25% of the electorate actually voted Conservative, and therefore over 75% didn't!

With the system now, the party taking the most seats can in theory have small majorities in each seat, and the second placed party have much larger majorities in each constituency so the winning party may have not got the most votes.

A solution?

Separate votes for the government and for local MPs.  Vote as now for the local MP, but for the government use proportional representation.  Again there may be an imbalance between the government votes and the proportional amount of MPs, but you would expect the party winning the government vote to get the most local MPs.

By the same token 36% voted Tory, 33% didn't vote at all, for whatever reason. Not voting is same as a vote for winner isn't it? , therefore 69% must be happy for Tories to remain.
Which ever way it falls 5 more years of Conservative party in charge.

[IC1967]

So much is wrong and so much has to change you say. I agree. Things would be so much better in this country if only people would realise that capitalism although far from perfect, is an infinitely better system than socialism.

You lefties need to read the following article and cop yourselves on.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100131209/capitalism-isnt-immoral-its-the-most-virtuous-system-on-the-market/

[bpoolrover]

The Tories will win the next election without doubt as well because if things go wrong they will just put boris in charge

[glosterred]

Doesn't the fact that the Conservatives won more seats than anyone else indicate the a majority of people DO want a Conservative government?

No, 36%  of the electorate voted for the Conservatives, 64% didn't

And even more voters didn't want Labour!

True, by just 4%

6.5%

[hoolahoop]

The Tories will win the next election without doubt as well because if things go wrong they will just put boris in charge

I doubt it will be quite that easy. As a Lib/Dem, I am gutted that we or no other 3rd party can no longer rein in the excesses of the Tories.
Quote simply the opportunity to vote for a form of PR was lost early in the new Parliament.

I am devastated that all that hard work has been thrown away over "tuition fees" and all the good things that the L/Dems brought about or reined in were overlooked by the British electorate.
We now risk the Union collapsing. It was almost like the SNP were taking the piss last night with 20 year old lasses unseating great parliamentarians.... What a mess. Where does any party start ? Who are UKIP and what do they stand for ?  - I need a counselor quickly ((

[IC1967]

The Tories will win the next election without doubt as well because if things go wrong they will just put boris in charge

I doubt it will be quite that easy. As a Lib/Dem, I am gutted that we or no other 3rd party can no longer rein in the excesses of the Tories.
Quote simply the opportunity to vote for a form of PR was lost early in the new Parliament.

I am devastated that all that hard work has been thrown away over "tuition fees" and all the good things that the L/Dems brought about or reined in were overlooked by the British electorate.
We now risk the Union collapsing. It was almost like the SNP were taking the piss last night with 20 year old lasses unseating great parliamentarians.... What a mess. Where does any party start ? Who are UKIP and what do they stand for ?  - I need a counselor quickly ((

I feel sorry for the LibDems. They did not deserve what they got. In fact I think given their record in power they actually deserved to pick up some seats.

Unfortunately for them, the bulk of their so called support didn't have the brains to realise that as by far the smallest party in the coalition they could not implement their manifesto.

It really makes my piss boil when people say they don't support them anymore because of tuition fees. What a total overreaction. These idiots forget all the good things they did such as massively increasing the tax free allowance.

Nick Clegg is a hero in my book. History will judge him very kindly. Quite right too.

[hoolahoop]

The Tories will win the next election without doubt as well because if things go wrong they will just put boris in charge

I doubt it will be quite that easy. As a Lib/Dem, I am gutted that we or no other 3rd party can no longer rein in the excesses of the Tories.
Quote simply the opportunity to vote for a form of PR was lost early in the new Parliament.

I am devastated that all that hard work has been thrown away over "tuition fees" and all the good things that the L/Dems brought about or reined in were overlooked by the British electorate.
We now risk the Union collapsing. It was almost like the SNP were taking the piss last night with 20 year old lasses unseating great parliamentarians.... What a mess. Where does any party start ? Who are UKIP and what do they stand for ?  - I need a counselor quickly ((

I feel sorry for the LibDems. They did not deserve what they got. In fact I think given their record in power they actually deserved to pick up some seats.

Unfortunately for them, the bulk of their so called support didn't have the brains to realise that as by far the smallest party in the coalition they could not implement their manifesto.

It really makes my piss boil when people say they don't support them anymore because of tuition fees. What a total overreaction. These idiots forget all the good things they did such as massively increasing the tax free allowance.

Nick Clegg is a hero in my book. History will judge him very kindly. Quite right too.

It will judge him that way that is for sure. The Lib/Dems have always been strong at a local level and I'm amazed that they were turned over in the South- West as easily as they were. Like the Labour party in Scotland they were blown away by the tsunami of fear that was created for them by a very clever Tory party. Folk in these islands could not take the risk of allowing a rainbow coalition such as that suggested by the SNP to run the country. People were just scared that a possible Labour victory in England would allow the Scots to dictate to the English.