RNAS Yeovilton Air Day 2015 Live on Youtube now....

[eastender]

...For anyone  interested. 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s92GA16TEj4

[Dagenham Rover]

Its always worth seeing XH538 flying especially as it will be grounded for good at the end of this season.

I have great memories of 3  4 or 5 Vulcans flying over our house in formation as a kid an absolutely fantastic sight

[BobG]

Why can't the Vulcan be kept flying? Money? If Spitfires, Hurricanes, ME109's and Lancasters can be kept flying from 70 years ago and Camels & SE5A's can be kept flying from 100 years ago, why can't a Vulcan from 50 years ago carry on flying?

I am assuming I shall be seeing XH538 next weekend. It'll be passing right by, and over, my gaffe on Saturday and/or Sunday - unless it's not coming at all for some obscure reason.

BobG

[eastender]

It cost £7M just to get it air worthy.
 

The age of Vulcan XH558’s airframe and its engines mean three expert companies who keep the bomber aloft have decided they must end their support at the end of this season.No amount of money can keep her in the air now however, the charity trust which operates the aircraft says.
Dr Robert Pleming, chief executive of the Vulcan to the Sky Trust, said: “It’s pretty sad. We have worked very hard to get the aircraft back to flight initially, but we always knew that flying would have to come to a halt at some point because of the nature of the aircraft. It has a safe flying life which we can’t exceed.
“Sadly this is a set of issues that money can’t resolve, not even enormous amounts of money.”



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/11636534/Worlds-last-flying-Vulcan-bomber-prepares-for-goodbye-season.html

[BobG]

Ok. Thanks. I can see the scale and complexity of planes and airframes multiplies from one era to the next. But presumably the airframes of the Lancs and Spits and Hurricanes have been rebuilt? If not, how long will they last?

I don't understand how even enormous amounts of money can't fix it. Does it mean that the WW2 planes will cease flying at some point too?

Bob

[wilts rover]

There is a company who make the parts for the WW2 planes Bob, so they will be flying for a little while longer. How much of the plane is genuininly 'original' I guess is open to debate and maybe thaat is the issue with the Vulcan? They can't patch it up any longer and don't belive it would be genuine to build a new one?

http://www.airframes.co.uk/spitfire.aspx

[IDM]

Bob,

I don't know the specific details of projects to restore/renovate Lancasters and Spitfires however I'll throw in my opinion for what it is worth.

Aircraft jet engines are "lifed" in terms of number of hours operated.  Normally, there are enough engines to go around with life left, but I suspect not in the case of the Vulcan.  Manufacturers will test engines to calculate the expected safe operating life and will set a limit for the engines to be used.  My guess is that the Vulcan engines on XH558 are now the most used of any Vulcan engine therefore it is not possible to say when they will cease to be safe, ie they are close to exceeding the predicted safe life.

The same goes for the airframe.  Jet aircraft are fatigue tested under conditions that replicate all sorts of flight profiles again to set a safe life.  Once a fatigue life is established - based on flying hours, or numbers of take offs and landings it is not possible to extend that life without serious modifications.  Some parts can be replaced (such as undercarriage legs) but there will be parts of the airframe that no amounts of maintenance can inprove the reliability of, and therefore lenghten the fatigue life.  Again, I reckon XH558 is closing in on it's fatigue life.

Realistically the only way of flying a Vulcan would be a complete new manufacture of airframe and engines - so whilst in theory that is feasible with enough money, practically it is not.  Are all the drawings available still?

For Spitfires and Lancs I may be wrong but these were designed and build before fatigue lifing was investigated and accounted for.  Also, the airframes are less stressed than a jet aircraft, and the rebuilding/renovation of thier components is much simpler - although no easy task in itself.

[Filo]

Bob,

I don't know the specific details of projects to restore/renovate Lancasters and Spitfires however I'll throw in my opinion for what it is worth.

Aircraft jet engines are "lifed" in terms of number of hours operated.  Normally, there are enough engines to go around with life left, but I suspect not in the case of the Vulcan.  Manufacturers will test engines to calculate the expected safe operating life and will set a limit for the engines to be used.  My guess is that the Vulcan engines on XH558 are now the most used of any Vulcan engine therefore it is not possible to say when they will cease to be safe, ie they are close to exceeding the predicted safe life.

The same goes for the airframe.  Jet aircraft are fatigue tested under conditions that replicate all sorts of flight profiles again to set a safe life.  Once a fatigue life is established - based on flying hours, or numbers of take offs and landings it is not possible to extend that life without serious modifications.  Some parts can be replaced (such as undercarriage legs) but there will be parts of the airframe that no amounts of maintenance can inprove the reliability of, and therefore lenghten the fatigue life.  Again, I reckon XH558 is closing in on it's fatigue life.

Realistically the only way of flying a Vulcan would be a complete new manufacture of airframe and engines - so whilst in theory that is feasible with enough money, practically it is not.  Are all the drawings available still?

For Spitfires and Lancs I may be wrong but these were designed and build before fatigue lifing was investigated and accounted for.  Also, the airframes are less stressed than a jet aircraft, and the rebuilding/renovation of thier components is much simpler - although no easy task in itself.

I think they had to use the last spare engine they had for the Vulcan about 18 months ago, so that would be a reasonable explanation IDM

[The Red Baron]

Its always worth seeing XH538 flying especially as it will be grounded for good at the end of this season.

I have great memories of 3  4 or 5 Vulcans flying over our house in formation as a kid an absolutely fantastic sight

Same here. We lived in Hatfield so we used to see them coming in and out of Finningley. Bloody noisy though!

[auckleyflyer]

Like an air frame an engine can be re-manufactured? or even new made? RR must surely have the dwgs.
I refuse to believe this is it, and suspect an emotional last min fund raiser.
Don't they use Olympus engines? plenty left in concords, in marine application they powered Type 42's and the three Carriers.
Also frigs me off slightly we get misty eyed over planes when the Ships that won the Falklands and gulf are chopped up on a Turkish beach!
How about keeping the Invincible as a museum piece alongside the Belfast in London?? Type 42's sleek, deadly and look like a warship should! only the Argies have them now?
Its just as sad, and many more people lived aboard these ships and called them home than any jet!
Scrap value I suppose? if these jets were worth owt they'd have been broken up 20yrs ago??

[glosterred]

Like an air frame an engine can be re-manufactured? or even new made? RR must surely have the dwgs.
I refuse to believe this is it, and suspect an emotional last min fund raiser.
Don't they use Olympus engines? plenty left in concords, in marine application they powered Type 42's and the three Carriers.
Also frigs me off slightly we get misty eyed over planes when the Ships that won the Falklands and gulf are chopped up on a Turkish beach!
How about keeping the Invincible as a museum piece alongside the Belfast in London?? Type 42's sleek, deadly and look like a warship should! only the Argies have them now?
Its just as sad, and many more people lived aboard these ships and called them home than any jet!
Scrap value I suppose? if these jets were worth owt they'd have been broken up 20yrs ago??

The ships got the troops there, but I bet the marines and paras have a different opinion on who won the war - but I know what you mean.

[Dagenham Rover]

This answers some of the questions althoughwritten in 2013 when already modifications had had to be made to the wings

http://www.vulcantothesky.org/uploads/documents/EoFA4-FAQ-Web.pdf

[BobG]

Thank you chaps ever so much.

I understand the idea of stress tests and fatigue in airframes and engines. I get that. It's the 'no amount of money would fix it' that I didn't, and probably still don't get. if the drawings have gone, then yes.- it would be too easy. Lol. Nut if they are still around, enough time and enough dosh surely? It's a different league I know, but the principles of time, money and manufacturing from scratch have been used every day for years now in the  resurrection and maintenance of railway engines both diesel and steam. It takes those guys 10 years and sometimes more to get a wreck going again. But they do it.

Cheers

BobG

[BillyStubbsTears]

I'm sure the 'no amount of money would fix it' comment really means 'no amount of money that we could realistically raise would fix it'.


If the men from Mars turned up tomorrow and said, "Fix that f**king Vulcan or we will eviscerate you all", I reckon we'd fix the Vulcan PDQ.

[i_ateallthepies]

F*cking Martians! never one around when you want one...

[Filo]

F*cking Martians! never one around when you want one...

They all joined the Police Force

[BobG]

Hot news!!

XH538 is parked up less than half a mile from me right now.  It's in camouflage paint - not the startling white I remember from the 70's over our house. Came in today and, I assume, will be here until Monday morning. And I might bloody miss it flying. Got to take Alex to cricket matches on both Saturday and Sunday.

BobG

[BillyStubbsTears]

Whooshsta!

I'm guessing it was white when I was a kid in the 70s cos it was planned to fly over Siberia and knock out the Soviet nukes.

[BobG]

Aye. But they'd have heard it coming no matter what bloody colour they painted it!

BobG

[Filo]

Hot news!!

XH538 is parked up less than half a mile from me right now.  It's in camouflage paint - not the startling white I remember from the 70's over our house. Came in today and, I assume, will be here until Monday morning. And I might bloody miss it flying. Got to take Alex to cricket matches on both Saturday and Sunday.

BobG

Our Vulcan is XH558

[BobG]

Oh this is another Vulcan altogether.  Its mine

Cheers!

BobG

[BobG]

Saw my Vulcan yesterday, flying in formation with the Red Arrows right over the  cricket pitch where Alex was batting. Nce of them to honour him like that don't you think?

BobG