Is the European Central Bank taking the piss?

[IC1967]

Right. Here it is. A dismantling of Jeremy Corbyn.

Tuition fees:

He wants to abolish them. He says a 7% rise in national insurance contributions for those earning more than £50,000 a year and a 2% rise in corporation tax will pay for this. This would represent a huge tax rise on people on relatively modest incomes.  If we started raising corporation tax, we would be about the only country in the world to do so. Not a great idea when you want to attract foreign investment.

Bank of England:

He wants the BoE to print money to fund government infrastructure spending. He doesn't understand that there would be a huge inflationary impact on an economy already running close to full employment.

Industrial Investment:

He argues for a 'strategic, innovative state' to take over industrial investment. Has he not read the history books? Labour did this in the 1970's and saw most of the money vanish. At least then they borrowed it. He just wants to print it.

Austerity:

He campaigns against austerity, but conveniently ignores the fact that by any historical standards the UK is already running a huge budget deficit. In his fantasy world, governments can spend more than they raise in taxes forever!

Trade Unions:

He wants to strengthen trade union rights. Does he not realise we no longer need trade unions?

Private/Public Sector:

He wants to weaken the power of private companies to run their own affairs  and at the same time increase the size of the public sector. Isn't the public sector big enough already?

Conclusion:

The man is a delusional fool (as are all lefties). His policies would not survive contact with reality. Soaring tax levels, combined with reckless money printing, would plunge the UK into crisis. Firms would disappear, the foreign investors who fund our huge trade deficit would take flight, and inflation would return rapidly.

It would be a disaster – as far left governments always have been. He believes every problem can be waved away with more debt and state intervention. If ever he got his way we'd all end up a lot poorer.

Luckily, Labour are unelectable so its not a big problem if he wins.

Its a good job there are people around like me to expose the vacuity of his thinking to stop you delusional lefties taking over.

IC1967

[BRMC_rover]

Just to be clear. I do not support the Labour party. They do not deserve to have Corbyn and his potential new direction, whilst the party is full of right-wingers and those that still want to operate without representing what they traditionally stand for.

You fail to address the fundamental issues and suggest a viable alternate policy to what we currently operate under, or Corbyns suggested approach.

Tuition fee's. Its not as Black and White, as dismissing Corbyn's suggestion, whilst the current model is pricing the majority of our prospective students, out of an education. Is it more progressive, would you say, to keep the fee's as they are, where any young person with their head switched on can see that it is not worth the investment? The current model, means only a small privileged percentage of our society have the access into top jobs, where key decisions are made. It in itself, creates an undemocratic order of people in positions of power. It will promote, in the long term, incompetence throughout our industry and shunt many young potential pioneers into not realising their potential.

If a company wants to enter the UK market and be a beneficiary of our economy , but not do their part in order to maintain the climate in which they successfully trade, then another organisation will happily take their place and its a win win situation. If your happy having an illiterate demographic and subject generations to no university education, all so that your beloved Corporations don't take their ball home and make millions in profits (non of which will benefit your or your next man) then that is very short sited of you. We should not be held to ransom, to our own peoples detriment, on the conditions upon which we allow organisations to trade.

Il come back and address a few other of your points when Im home from work, as long as you want to continue with healthy debate of course.

[IC1967]

Just to be clear. I do not support the Labour party. They do not deserve to have Corbyn and his potential new direction, whilst the party is full of right-wingers and those that still want to operate without representing what they traditionally stand for.

You fail to address the fundamental issues and suggest a viable alternate policy to what we currently operate under, or Corbyns suggested approach.

Tuition fee's. Its not as Black and White, as dismissing Corbyn's suggestion, whilst the current model is pricing the majority of our prospective students, out of an education. Is it more progressive, would you say, to keep the fee's as they are, where any young person with their head switched on can see that it is not worth the investment. It will promote, in the long term, incompetence throughout our industry and shunt many young potential pioneers into not realising their potential.

If a company wants to enter the UK market and be a beneficiary of our economy , but not do their part in order to maintain the climate in which they successfully trade, then another organisation will happily take their place and its a win win situation. If your happy having an illiterate demographic and subject generations to no university education, all so that your beloved Corporations don't take their ball home and make millions in profits (non of which will benefit your or your next man) then that is very short sited of you.

Il come back and address a few other of your points when Im home from work, as long as you want to continue with healthy debate of course.

I'm all for it. Only by debating issues properly will you lefties see the light (as many have already done on this now right wing forum).

You should be warned though. The likes of BST and BobG won't want you to debate with me. They will try to warn you off. They hate it when anyone has a different opinion to them. They really dislike me for battering them senseless in previous debates. Me? I don't mind. All I ask is to be heard and if I can't convince you otherwise fair enough. Life would be boring if we all had the same opinion (take note BST and BobG).

IC1967

[BRMC_rover]

I don't see much debate there. Only some self back patting and old scores you still feel the need to settle. I imagine the two posters you mentioned have seen your comments but see no point in contributing any further when you skip any debatable topics, insisting on berating left wing views and adding a few silly statements to assist the massaging of your ego. 1967? Chuff me, that's a long time to have been so self obsessed.

[IC1967]

I don't see much debate there. Only some self back patting and old scores you still feel the need to settle. I imagine the two posters you mentioned have seen your comments but see no point in contributing any further when you skip any debatable topics, insisting on berating left wing views and adding a few silly statements to assist the massaging of your ego. 1967? Chuff me, that's a long time to have been so self obsessed.

Excuse me. May I refer you to the quality of the post where I dismantled Jeremy Corbyn. That post is typical of my high quality offerings on this forum. The two posters I refer to only want to debate with like minded people. They consider right wingers to be the spawn of Satan. They stopped contributing to debates because I always make their point of view look stupid. They can't take it so resort to attacking me all the time. They are the ones doing the berating, not me. I merely offer the right wing perspective on life. I most definitely do not skip any debatable topics and have no need to massage my ego.

Self obsessed? Evidence man. Where is it?

IC1967 (your most humble servant)

[wilts rover]

First things first. I'm very disappointed in the lack of paragraphs and the spelling mistakes. It has really made my piss boil. I'd be here all day if I corrected all the errors so I'll just do a few. 'versaiiles treaty' should be Versailles Treaty.

No it shouldn't, it should be the Treaty of Versailles.

If you are going to come on here and pick out faults with wot other people have ritten - then at least make sure you know what you are talking about.

I only have one issue with donnyproletarian post, the Marshall Plan didn't just rebuild the German economy after WWII, it rebuilt ours. We recieved more than twice as much money from it as they did.

You only have one issue!!! That says a lot.

Take some advice. I before E except after C.

IC1967

Have you only just noticed? I realised months ago it was pointless debating anything with you as any topic you contribute to is always about the same subject... yourself.

As you continue to prove above.

Now if only you could take my advice, as wheatleylad did, and leave off the personal attacks and debate in a sensible manner the forum would be much more interesting.

[IC1967]

First things first. I'm very disappointed in the lack of paragraphs and the spelling mistakes. It has really made my piss boil. I'd be here all day if I corrected all the errors so I'll just do a few. 'versaiiles treaty' should be Versailles Treaty.

No it shouldn't, it should be the Treaty of Versailles.

If you are going to come on here and pick out faults with wot other people have ritten - then at least make sure you know what you are talking about.

I only have one issue with donnyproletarian post, the Marshall Plan didn't just rebuild the German economy after WWII, it rebuilt ours. We recieved more than twice as much money from it as they did.

You only have one issue!!! That says a lot.

Take some advice. I before E except after C.

IC1967

Have you only just noticed? I realised months ago it was pointless debating anything with you as any topic you contribute to is always about the same subject... yourself.

As you continue to prove above.

Now if only you could take my advice, as wheatleylad did, and leave off the personal attacks and debate in a sensible manner the forum would be much more interesting.

Have I only just noticed what?

You say any topic is always about me. Evidence man. Where is it? What a silly statement.

You want me to leave off the personal attacks. Hahahahahahaah! I'm the one that is constantly attacked. My 'attacks' are very mild in comparison to what I have to endure. Can't you read man? Have a look. Some of the things that BobG, BST, etc have said in the past are nothing short of criminal. Its a good job for them I believe in free speech and have no desire to see them locked up.


IC1967

[BobG]

As usual Mick you know nothing. I before e except after c is one of the most over worked cliches in the english language. And it's very often wrong. I don't suppose you ever managed to notice that though - what with your head being up your arse all the time.

Take note:

'theirs'
'science'

And just for fun, all the ones that start with the letter 'h' that I can think of right now:

'herein'
'heir'
;height'
''heifer'
'heist'
heinous'


There. That took me less than 2 minutes Mick. And they come from just one letter of the alphabet. You were saying...?

There are well over a hundred such Mick. Do try to grow up man.

BobG

[BRMC_rover]

Excellent observations and dissecting of Syriza and Yanis Varafoukis' impossible task of negotiating the starving of an EU member Vs. Propping up the Eurozone's neoliberal, economically illiterate ideology.

The worst thing is, that although the Tory's society eroding policies are criminal already, a left wing government in the UK would have the same issues if it were to challenge policy. I imagine the EU will have fallen long before any left wing government take power in the UK, which says more about the chances of the EU's house of cards not being pulled apart the people, rather than it being an excessive amount of time before we see political revolution here.

http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2015/07/yanis-varoufakis-parallel-currency.html

[IC1967]

Excellent observations and dissecting of Syriza and Yanis Varafoukis' impossible task of negotiating the starving of an EU member Vs. Propping up the Eurozone's neoliberal, economically illiterate ideology.

The worst thing is, that although the Tory's society eroding policies are criminal already, a left wing government in the UK would have the same issues if it were to challenge policy. I imagine the EU will have fallen long before any left wing government take power in the UK, which says more about the chances of the EU's house of cards not being pulled apart the people, rather than it being an excessive amount of time before we see political revolution here.

http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2015/07/yanis-varoufakis-parallel-currency.html

The trouble with you lefties is that you think Greece is not at fault in all this. Germany seems to be the one getting most of the blame. You've got it totally the wrong way around. Germany has been and is continuing to be very good to Greece. It has 'lent ' Greece an absolute fortune. It knows it won't be getting much of this money back. If Germany didn't keep giving them money they would be in a much worse position than they currently are.

Whose fault is it that Greece is in a mess? That's easy. It's Greece's fault. Unfortunately they think the rest of the world owes them a living. They think money grows on trees and they should be given as much as they want so they can maintain an unsustainable standard of living. Its called living well beyond your means. Now its payback time.

This is what happens when a socialist ideology permeates a society. I just don't understand why socialists are so economically illiterate. They just think raising taxes and borrowing money is always the solution to any problem.

Forget Greece. There is another example of what happens when socialists are put in charge. It's called France.

Just be grateful we live in a country run by right wingers that is creating more jobs than the rest of the EU put together. Why on earth Labour think we would want to lurch to the left when the evidence is plain to see. Socialism always ends in tears. Capitalism is the best way forward by far. It's time you lefties thought with your brains rather than with your hearts.


IC1967

[wilts rover]

It was a right-wing party who took Greece into the financial crisis.

A left-wing party is part of the German coalition discussing what to do about it.

It's time you used your brain to do some research before posting rubbish.

[IC1967]

It was a right-wing party who took Greece into the financial crisis.

A left-wing party is part of the German coalition discussing what to do about it.

It's time you used your brain to do some research before posting rubbish.

What a simplistic load of cobblers. Read what I wrote. I said 'This is what happens when a socialist ideology permeates a society.' It is far too simplistic to label governments right wing or left wing. Greece has been run with a socialist ideology regardless of who was in power. That is the root of their problems.

A left wing party as part of the German coalition has got nothing to do with it.

It's very simple. Greece lived well beyond its means. Its payback time. Why on earth should they expect to keep being given money they will never repay? It is totally ludicrous.


IC1967

[wilts rover]

 

[BobG]

Wilts - that's quite an ambitious task you've set our Resident Idiot there you know. 'Use his brain'? Really? You mean he's got one??? As he himself says, quite often, where's the evidence?!

BobG

[BRMC_rover]

The true sign of a sun reader who steals a few fancy words to gloss over the shit they type, often share this 'Greece lived beyond their means' laughable nonsense.

The clue is in the term, 'global financial crisis'. The irresponsible, risky gambles by the IMF and its vertical market lending streams plunged Greece, Ireland, Iceland and Spain the worst of all into harsh economic times. The subsequent asset stripping disguised as austerity, along with threadbare amounts of money being spent and circulating to stimulate natural recovery. In no way is that the Germans being kind to them. It's a purposeful demantling of their assets for their gain.

Yanis Varoufakis presented a plan that could be worked with, but it was never even going to be considered. He could have presented the EU's terms word for word and it still would have been rejected. They were not interested in negotiating, as proved by their liquidating of their banking system. They just bullied them into accepting further austerity.

The EU cannot afford to let any more members do 'an Iceland', who you will notice are now non-existent to our mainstream media. Not good for business is it when your trying to endorse globalisation of neo-liberal, authoritarian economic ideals.

Whilst evidence also demonstrates the weaker EU members, under poorly performing economies keeps the Euro at a competitive rate for exports, which Germany have boomed as a result of. It wouldn't be in Angela Merkel's interests to fix that issue would it.

[IC1967]

The true sign of a sun reader who steals a few fancy words to gloss over the shit they type, often share this 'Greece lived beyond their means' laughable nonsense.

The clue is in the term, 'global financial crisis'. The irresponsible, risky gambles by the IMF and its vertical market lending streams plunged Greece, Ireland, Iceland and Spain the worst of all into harsh economic times. The subsequent asset stripping disguised as austerity, along with threadbare amounts of money being spent and circulating to stimulate natural recovery. In no way is that the Germans being kind to them. It's a purposeful demantling of their assets for their gain.

Yanis Varoufakis presented a plan that could be worked with, but it was never even going to be considered. He could have presented the EU's terms word for word and it still would have been rejected. They were not interested in negotiating, as proved by their liquidating of their banking system. They just bullied them into accepting further austerity.

The EU cannot afford to let any more members do 'an Iceland', who you will notice are now non-existent to our mainstream media. Not good for business is it when your trying to endorse globalisation of neo-liberal, authoritarian economic ideals.

Whilst evidence also demonstrates the weaker EU members, under poorly performing economies keeps the Euro at a competitive rate for exports, which Germany have boomed as a result of. It wouldn't be in Angela Merkel's interests to fix that issue would it.

You really need to up your game if you want to debate with me. I'd be here all day if I dismantled all your drivel so I'll have to be selective. It is incontrovertible fact that Greece lived well beyond its means. Anyone that argues differently is just being plain silly. Don't you know Greece lied to get into the Euro? That is a far more relevant point (one of many).

It is simplistic in the extreme to say the IMF plunged Greece etc into the worst of all harsh economic times. In your simplistic world it is all the IMF's fault. Totally ludicrous. There were many factors at play and well you know it.

Greece owes around €56bn to Germany, €42bn to France, €37bn to Italy, and €25bn to Spain before any further bailouts are sorted. They are borrowing money to pay the interest on money they've already borrowed. A totally ludicrous situation. These countries aren't going to get their money back. They are going to give Greece even more money that they know they won't get back. So lets back off on the German bashing shall we. They are being more than generous to Greece and are getting little thanks for it.

The only way Greece will sort itself out is by defaulting and leaving the Euro and starting again with their own currency. I think Varoufakis knows this. He should do. Its blindingly obvious to anyone that knows anything about economics (unlike you).

IC1967

[BRMC_rover]

Well you have backed up my points very well then. Good to see we are on the same page. You say they are giving Greece more money that they can't pay back. Yes they are. Now it looks like your making progress in seeing how ridiculous the EU's terms are. Greece are not asking for the bailout and revised terms/additional loan, they are being forced to have it. Do you read anything but your own nonsense? Clearly not. Syriza have done everything to restructure the debt and their worst outcome would be to be given more bailout loans. It does nothing to stimulate the recovery and you, I, Greece and Angela Merkel know that. It is not the Eurozones intention to see Greece recover in their own manor no matter how reasonable their negotiations were.

'Debating' with you is like debating with a child who sticks his fingers in his ears and makes noises while you speak. Your an arrogant and pathetic human who should know better that the ignorance you demonstrate for someone born in 1967. I'm '85 and feel like I'm the senior one here.

[BRMC_rover]

I don't see many in agreement of your egocentric ramblings, to say your turned this forum into a right wing audience. I know you only post here to try and entertain yourself and make yourself feel good, but surely your bored of it now and want to leave the deluded, smug front and start posting your real thoughts.

[IC1967]

Well you have backed up my points very well then. Good to see we are on the same page. You say they are giving Greece more money that they can't pay back. Yes they are. Now it looks like your making progress in seeing how ridiculous the EU's terms are. Greece are not asking for the bailout and revised terms/additional loan, they are being forced to have it. Do you read anything but your own nonsense? Clearly not. Syriza have done everything to restructure the debt and their worst outcome would be to be given more bailout loans. It does nothing to stimulate the recovery and you, I, Greece and Angela Merkel know that. It is not the Eurozones intention to see Greece recover in their own manor no matter how reasonable their negotiations were.

'Debating' with you is like debating with a child who sticks his fingers in his ears and makes noises while you speak. Your an arrogant and pathetic human who should know better that the ignorance you demonstrate for someone born in 1967. I'm '85 and feel like I'm the senior one here.

You what? Have I chuff backed up your points very well. I've exposed them for the drivel they are. Have you heard the phrase 'looking a gift horse in the mouth?' Greece is being given lots of virtually free money and they almost turned it down. Unbelievable. They want to stay in the Euro. Why? Because they think they can just keep on getting free money and carry on without the structural reforms their economy needs.

They are not being forced to have the money. They can quite easily refuse it and default and start up their own currency. They keep taking the money because it delays the inevitable for now. They will eventually default and leave the Euro. Its just a matter of time. They should bite the bullet now and get on with it. The current state of affairs is no good to anyone.

You say 'Syriza have done everything to restructure the debt and their worst outcome would be to be given more bailout loans.' What a load of nonsense. What you should be saying is that Syriza want a huge chunk of the debt writing off. That's what they mean by restructuring. Then they want more money that will also eventually have to be written off. In effect they're saying keep on giving us the money so we can keep on living beyond our means. Totally ludicrous. If their worst outcome would be to accept more free money then why have they done this? No. The worst outcome would be for Syriza to stay in power with their own currency and to tax and spend to the hilt like all left wing governments always do and turn Greece into a third world country.

Syriza need kicking out and a right wing government needs to come in and sort the mess out with their own currency. That is the only hope for Greece.

I would have thought if you are 85 you are probably the oldest member of the forum. As such I've been very gentle with you as you must have fought in the second world war and we owe a great debt of gratitude to you.

IC1967

[wheatleylad]

I have to say that I have just read the previous posts and I am stunned by a couple of things.
1. No matter what 67 says he is always subjected to abuse and
2. As regards Greece, he is right. They have indisputably lived beyond their means. I cannot see how it can be denied. They have dug themselves into a huge hole. The only way out for them is to leave the Euro and default on their debts. They will never repay them. The Germans are not to blame. I am no fan of the Germans but to blame them is a gross misrepresentation of the facts and almost smacks of anti German bias.

Once again a few people on here degenerate into personal attacks when they are challenged on their opinions.

Its no wonder Ed Milliband was given a safe seat in Doncaster. It seems a hat stand with a rosette can be voted in there. Why do you ignore what damage Labour did to this country.

Mass immigration?
War?
Economic chaos?

Corbyn seems a decent chap but he is living in a post war socialist bubble. The global situation has moved on. If he wins it will take Labour back to pre Kinnock days.

[wilts rover]

Wheatleylad
Of course there was another way. Germany could have chosen to write off Greece's debt - as Greece did to Germany when they were unable to pay off their war loan in 1953. They put profit before morals and ethics. Which is also a good summary of IC1967's position on the Labour leadership it would appear.

Labour caused the fall of Leeman Brothers & the collapse of the American sub-prime market, really?
Immigration to the UK last year was higher than at any time under Labour.
The country told Tony Blair not to go to war - he wouldn't listen. Parliament told Cameron not to bomb Syria, neither would he.

[IC1967]

Wheatleylad
Of course there was another way. Germany could have chosen to write off Greece's debt - as Greece did to Germany when they were unable to pay off their war loan in 1953. They put profit before morals and ethics. Which is also a good summary of IC1967's position on the Labour leadership it would appear.

Labour caused the fall of Leeman Brothers & the collapse of the American sub-prime market, really?
Immigration to the UK last year was higher than at any time under Labour.
The country told Tony Blair not to go to war - he wouldn't listen. Parliament told Cameron not to bomb Syria, neither would he.

What a load of cobblers. Germany has already written the money off. They are going to give them even more that they have also written off. They can't publicly admit that they've written it off or they would be voted out of office but anyone that knows anything about this situation knows the money has been written off. Other countries have written the money off. This includes Spain, Italy and France who're all struggling financially. They will also give Greece more money that they will write off. Totally crazy.

What's wrong with my position on the Labour leadership? There is an opportunity to make good money. Morals doesn't come into it. All I've done is given people the benefit of my expertise and told them to lump on at 3/1. I was ahead of the game. That's all. I've made a fortune already because I've now decided to lay him off just in case he doesn't win and because I'm not greedy. Remember who tipped the Tories for 2 years solid. Yes that was me. I made a fortune on that one as well.

IC1967

[BobG]

Please don't give an impression, Wilts, that Wheatley is anybody other than that fathead Mick in yet another silly and threadbare disguise. Have you noticed just how often good ole Wheatlet pops his head over the parapet to sing 1967's praises? It's so transparent it's laughable. It really does demonstrate just how dim Mick must be for him to think folk wouldn't see straight through that.

Anyway., Mick, have you learned how to use capital letters yet??? It's really quite important you know. There's plenty of good folk on here could help you out. You only have to ask. Nicely. Think you can do that?

BobG

[IC1967]

Please don't give an impression, Wilts, that Wheatley is anybody other than that fathead Mick in yet another silly and threadbare disguise. Have you noticed just how often good ole Wheatlet pops his head over the parapet to sing 1967's praises? It's so transparent it's laughable. It really does demonstrate just how dim Mick must be for him to think folk wouldn't see straight through that.

Anyway., Mick, have you learned how to use capital letters yet??? It's really quite important you know. There's plenty of good folk on here could help you out. You only have to ask. Nicely. Think you can do that?

BobG

By your logic if wheatleylad is indeed a different person (which he is) that would mean that you are the one that is dim.

Don't need any help thanks but I think we all know who does.


IC1967

[BRMC_rover]

How exactly would they be kicked out of office if they made it public, that they wrote the debt off? Whose office? Who would replace them? I'd love to hear your explanation when the EU members negotiating are an un-elected group with no opposition 'party' to replace them.

You need to start joining the dots up instead of just reading a small joke news section, on the situation in Greece, courtesy of The Sun.

Have a read over the article I posted on page 2 of this thread. It's former Greek finance Mister, Yanis Varafoukis. It shows how there was no negotiation. It's extremely anti-democratic. Greeted people did not want further loans, no did their government, but they were bullied into taking it. They are now living in Germany's pocket until the Euro fails. Generations of Greeks who played no part in the mess, subjected to poverty. A constant source of interest from the loan and control over their state assets pumping revenue straight out of greeces economy. It's really quite brutal.

BRMC_Rover (1985)

[IC1967]

How exactly would they be kicked out of office if they made it public, that they wrote the debt off? Whose office? Who would replace them? I'd love to hear your explanation when the EU members negotiating are an un-elected group with no opposition 'party' to replace them.

You need to start joining the dots up instead of just reading a small joke news section, on the situation in Greece, courtesy of The Sun.

BRMC_Rover (1985)

Angela Merkel would be kicked out of office if she admitted to the gullible Germans that they won't be getting their money back. Its called politics. Its when leaders treat their electorate as fools which they do all the time. Why do they do it? Because only 5% of the population are interested in politics. The opposition would replace them. Who do you think?

You are starting to become incoherent. Take a chill pill and read what I've written a bit more closely before you make yourself look daft again. You need to up your game considerably. I nearly didn't bother replying because you obviously haven't understood what I said.

IC1967

[wilts rover]

What's wrong with my position on the Labour leadership? There is an opportunity to make good money. Morals doesn't come into it. All I've done is given people the benefit of my expertise and told them to lump on at 3/1.

That's all you have done? Really? So as a confirmed right-wing UKIP supporter are you saying this is untrue then?

Just paid my £3 and voted for Jeremy. I really hope he wins.

[wilts rover]

Sorry Bob, I dont believe he is. It could be Marydene, or another brother, maybe his son, or someone from the Facebook group, or someone else entirely, but whoever does post under the name wheatleylad does so in a polite and reasoned manner which is fine with me. I dont agree with his postings, but the way he has posted is fine with me.

It's only a football forum, it's not worth getting worked up about.

[IC1967]

How exactly would they be kicked out of office if they made it public, that they wrote the debt off? Whose office? Who would replace them? I'd love to hear your explanation when the EU members negotiating are an un-elected group with no opposition 'party' to replace them.

You need to start joining the dots up instead of just reading a small joke news section, on the situation in Greece, courtesy of The Sun.

Have a read over the article I posted on page 2 of this thread. It's former Greek finance Mister, Yanis Varafoukis. It shows how there was no negotiation. It's extremely anti-democratic. Greeted people did not want further loans, no did their government, but they were bullied into taking it. They are now living in Germany's pocket until the Euro fails. Generations of Greeks who played no part in the mess, subjected to poverty. A constant source of interest from the loan and control over their state assets pumping revenue straight out of greeces economy. It's really quite brutal.

BRMC_Rover (1985)

Excuse me. No negotiation? They were at it for many weeks. The Greeks did want a further loan. You've got that one completely wrong. They wanted a loan to pay the interest on the previous loans. They have no intention of paying it all back. they just want loans to cover the interest on previous loans. You couldn't make it up.

Bullied into taking it? Are you having a laugh? The EU was prepared to give them money that they knew they weren't going to get back. I'd call that being extremely generous. I reckon most people involved in the so called negotiations would have been quite happy for Greece to refuse their virtually free money.

The EU is brutal. The Greeks want to stay part of it. I can't for the life of me understand why. They are a basket case economy and have been for decades. They are totally unsuited to bein in the Euro and should do the decent thing and default and start again with their own currency. Then then might decide to get their act together instead of asking for other people's money all the time.

IC1967

[IC1967]

Sorry Bob, I dont believe he is. It could be Marydene, or another brother, maybe his son, or someone from the Facebook group, or someone else entirely, but whoever does post under the name wheatleylad does so in a polite and reasoned manner which is fine with me. I dont agree with his postings, but the way he has posted is fine with me.

It's only a football forum, it's not worth getting worked up about.

Right then daft Bob. Are you going to do the decent thing and offer up an abject apology to wheatleylad? You know you should. Doesn't say much for your powers of deduction does it.

IC1967 (not wheatleylad)