Corbyn doesn't sing national anthem

[BillyStubbsTears]

He makes himself look worse than silly RD. He makes himself look weak, unprepared and susceptible to being bullied. Not good traits in a potential PM.

It's only a first impression. But as a wise old man once said: never trust first impressions, but never forget them either. This WILL have a lasting effect. Look at Michael Foot. No-one remembers that he was among the very few patriots who called for us to take military action against Hitler in the mid-30s when appeasement was the vogue. Everyone remembers that he was the man who looked scruffy at the Cenotaph and "obviously" was disrespectful to the people who died fighting Hitler.

[River Don]

His 'Donkey Jacket' was actually an expensive car coat from Harrods.

Someone needed to tell him to change it straightaway, now it's probably the thing that people most associate him with.

[BillyStubbsTears]

RD
Re:Foot.
I know but 99% of the population swear he wore a donkey jacket with NCB on the back of it.

[RedJ]

Is it a myth or didn't the Queen actually compliment him on his coat?

[The Red Baron]

Is it a myth or didn't the Queen actually compliment him on his coat?

I think it was the Queen Mother actually. But his coat didn't upset the Royals.

Re. McDonnell. It was good that he apologised for saying that the IRA should be honoured. However the reasons he gave for saying what he said made it sound like he was a leading light in the negotiations over the peace process. Rather than just a gobby backbencher shouting his mouth off.

[Copps is Magic]

Billy, you're already doing the dirty work for the tories. I couldn't give two shags of a pony's banjo what he wears, what he sings, when he sings, how he appears, what he says every second of the day (and whether he contradicts himself). How about let him be a human being beset by the inner conflicts we all are. You accuse him of some naive student politics yet you've set about pulling down every aspect of his character and those facets that you may have missed - you've gleefully pointed out (what now must be dozens of times) that the tories will soon tear him to pieces!

[River Don]

Appearance means quite a lot in the media age. It may seem facile but there it is.

If Corbyn wore clothes that actually fit he'd look quite smart, even with an open shirt and no tie. He is a slim fella and can probably wear a suit well. It's the fact everything he has is too big that makes him look a scruff.

[Copps is Magic]

I haven't worn matching socks for going on two years now and I don't think my stock as a human being has drifted in either direction. Maybe it has, who knows, modern 'politics' now has me doubting myself. Is this what people want? A cross between catwalk and instagram politics.

What an odd little island we live on.

[River Don]

You aren't standing for PM and being scrutinised by the media Copps.

[Copps is Magic]

Thank god because even though my socks usually don't match I have a system that works perfectly.

[Copps is Magic]

Just on the original subject by the way - it is possible to have a problematic relationship with the national anthem. There's no absolute answer.

I despise nationalism because it's based on fear but I am patriotic to a point and culturally identify and love many aspects of this country. Thirdly, I think songs of camaraderie are actually a good thing - after all that's what we do at football matches isn't it? But the words to our national anthem are just plane out of date and out of kilter with many people's dispositions. Occasionally I have sung the national anthem (mostly when I was younger) but now I largely don't. A war anniversary is probably close to last on this list I would want a national anthem to be sung - but to some people it's important.

It's not a yay or nay question is it but the simplified way in which it is presented as such really is the problem.

[Filo]

Which anthem should Nicola Sturgeon sing?

[Orlandokarla]

The amount of piss boiling over this is absolutely hilarious.

He's a republican, why would he sing it?

Same here. I'm an atheist and a republican. Not only will I not sing it, I won't stand up for it either.

When you respect the national anthem, you're respecting the country, its people, and those who defend it; not the current figure-head of a monarch and the mythical being mentioned in it.

Give us a national anthem that's about the nation and not about an unelected head of state and their imaginary friend and I'll respect it.

Ok, I get it now. You're one of "those". Fair enough; say no more.

[Copps is Magic]

By the way, while I'm here, (yeah, I know, I'm chirping on a bit) I think Corbyn should go out and hug a panda to improve his public image. He'll be electable then.

[River Don]

Worked for David Cameron when he hugged a husky.

Whatever happened to the greenest government ever promises?

[Glyn_Wigley]

The amount of piss boiling over this is absolutely hilarious.

He's a republican, why would he sing it?

Same here. I'm an atheist and a republican. Not only will I not sing it, I won't stand up for it either.

When you respect the national anthem, you're respecting the country, its people, and those who defend it; not the current figure-head of a monarch and the mythical being mentioned in it.

Give us a national anthem that's about the nation and not about an unelected head of state and their imaginary friend and I'll respect it.

Ok, I get it now. You're one of "those". Fair enough; say no more.

By 'one of "those"' I presume you mean 'people who stick by their principles in the hope of promoting change'.

[BobG]

.
Same here. I'm an atheist and a republican. Not only will I not sing it, I won't stand up for it either.

Hear hear Glyn. I haven't stood up, or sung, the National Anthem in decades. My stance is based on slightly different grounds to yours, but they are using the same 'freedom' that JC is being denied by the agenda ridden press lords. God I hate the press so much.....

if anyone's interested, my refusal to sing and stand is because I think nationalism is one of the two biggest curses that has ever befallen this world. I will not do anything to support it. Internationalism, humanism, are my creeds.

BobG

[Orlandokarla]

The amount of piss boiling over this is absolutely hilarious.

He's a republican, why would he sing it?

Same here. I'm an atheist and a republican. Not only will I not sing it, I won't stand up for it either.

When you respect the national anthem, you're respecting the country, its people, and those who defend it; not the current figure-head of a monarch and the mythical being mentioned in it.

Give us a national anthem that's about the nation and not about an unelected head of state and their imaginary friend and I'll respect it.

Ok, I get it now. You're one of "those". Fair enough; say no more.

By 'one of "those"' I presume you mean 'people who stick by their principles in the hope of promoting change'.

No, I don't.

With all due respect, I'm acknowledging the futility of further debate.
I could talk about good manners, common decency, and respecting others and their beliefs, but to what end?
If you want to protest the national anthem because the lyrics don't match your political and religious views, who am I to say otherwise?
Maybe one day you'll find yourself in a stadium next to a group of ex-serviceman, as I did a few weeks ago, and as you see them struggling to their feet for the nation anthem due to their artificial limbs, hands on hearts and singing at the top of their lungs, perhaps you'll feel as ashamed of yourself for your act of protest, as I was honoured to stand silently beside them.
If you don't get it, I've no hope of explaining it to you.

You go on fighting the good fight.

[BobG]

SUrely Orlando, the very fact that those servicemen were there without all those various limbs makes the point? Nationalism, and hence any national anthem, is a curse that nobody should support. Ever.

Cheers

BobG

[BillyStubbsTears]

Orlando.

Do you accept that one can have the deepest, most humble respect for people who have made that sacrifice whilst still having different principles of one's own about how the country should be run?

Or, to put it another way, don't you think that part of the problem is the attitude that, unless you show that you are on one side by confirming to expectations set by that side, you are automatically against that side?

Or, simpler still, who decided what was to be intended by the singing of a national anthem?

Back on topic, I think Corbyn's behaviour was immature and ill-thought out. But my God, isn't it about time that we were grown up enough as a society to be able to have a discussion like this based in the premise that there are principles and honour on BOTH sides?

[drfc1951]

At todays Battle of Britain service from Westminster Abbey,it was on telly, Prince Charles hardly sang it.

[Glyn_Wigley]

At todays Battle of Britain service from Westminster Abbey,it was on telly, Prince Charles hardly sang it.

I'll bet that doesn't get several dozen column inches in the papers.

[albie]

Why don't we just get a new anthem...one that makes sense in this day and age.

The present anthem dates from the 1750's. It is full of crap that perhaps once was relevant..but no longer is.

It is not just us though. Read the lyrics of most anthems and be embarrassed.
Time to move on.

[BobG]

Ahh Albie. But this national anthem is just perfect for the tory party and the manipulative tory press to play the nationalism card whenever it suits them without ever having to bother with trivial details like thinking. Or even logic.

You're dead right Albie. But it won't happen in decades.

BobG

[wilts rover]

The amount of piss boiling over this is absolutely hilarious.

He's a republican, why would he sing it?

Same here. I'm an atheist and a republican. Not only will I not sing it, I won't stand up for it either.

When you respect the national anthem, you're respecting the country, its people, and those who defend it; not the current figure-head of a monarch and the mythical being mentioned in it.

Give us a national anthem that's about the nation and not about an unelected head of state and their imaginary friend and I'll respect it.

Ok, I get it now. You're one of "those". Fair enough; say no more.

By 'one of "those"' I presume you mean 'people who stick by their principles in the hope of promoting change'.

No, I don't.

With all due respect, I'm acknowledging the futility of further debate.
I could talk about good manners, common decency, and respecting others and their beliefs, but to what end?
If you want to protest the national anthem because the lyrics don't match your political and religious views, who am I to say otherwise?
Maybe one day you'll find yourself in a stadium next to a group of ex-serviceman, as I did a few weeks ago, and as you see them struggling to their feet for the nation anthem due to their artificial limbs, hands on hearts and singing at the top of their lungs, perhaps you'll feel as ashamed of yourself for your act of protest, as I was honoured to stand silently beside them.
If you don't get it, I've no hope of explaining it to you.

You go on fighting the good fight.

What about the ones who weren't there and singing?

What about the chap who came up with these quotes, would you tell him to sing up or shut up with his silly pacifist statements?

Remembrance Day (it's) just showbusiness

(the) politicians who took us to war should have been given the guns and told to settle their differences themselves, instead of organising nothing better than legalised mass murder

It’s important that we remember the war dead on both sides of the line – the Germans suffered the same as we did

[albie]

Amusing take on the "anthemgate"fandango from Scottish comedian Frankie Boyle;
Jeremy Corbyn couldn’t be more British if he bled tea | Frankie Boyle | Comment is free | The Guardian

I know Frankie is not everyone's cup of tea, but I like the fact he is not afraid of upsetting the applecart every now and then.

The press are now on the wrong foot, with "Call me Dave" in the pigsty with his pork scratching past.

[BobG]

Many years ago, whilst I was a student at that socialist hotbed, Warwick University.  I was invited to a May Ball at Christ College, Cambridge. It was a damn good do. An all nighter with the piper playing in the rising of the sun at stupid o'clock in the morning. But before all the dancing and mingling and student type stuff, me and the girl I went with had to attend a dinner with the chap who had invited us. There was a fair number of  other unknown Cambridge student types in attendance. Some sort of 'club' or, as us Yorkies prefer to call it, a gang. 

What a bunch of toe rags they were.....  I can still visualise, in glorious technicolour, exactly the type of hooray henry that Cameron possibly seems to have been.  Toasts. Loud voices. Banging of the table. Arrogance. Ignorance. Power. Power. Power.....

The worlds that you and I inhabit are utterly irrelevant. if you're not born with the right spoon in your gob and the right numbers in your bank account, you will have to be one of lifes luckiest to get the sort of power those kids already had.

I was utterly appalled that night.  I have never, to this day, forgotten it.

BobG

[Sammy Chung was King]

To be a countries leader you must be strong, but also willing to compromise, i wouldn't want him to change the person he is, but not singing the national anthem is wrong, if doesn't believe in monarchy, he can respect his country and people who the song and flag represents.
I believe he won't be the disaster that many paint, if he is prepared to engage in serious politics, and serve the everyday people and not just the elite.
Everything isn't about London, it's a great city, but we have many throughout the land, as well as towns and villages with their own identities
The politics are too much about what's good for the capital, the people who live in other areas need to at least think they matter a bit.
The country needs to think it's just that a country, rather two seperate pieces, our country together is greater than being ''North and South''!.

[Orlandokarla]

SUrely Orlando, the very fact that those servicemen were there without all those various limbs makes the point? Nationalism, and hence any national anthem, is a curse that nobody should support. Ever.

Cheers

BobG

I like the concept of a world free of nationalism, but I find it as impractical, unlikely, and fanciful a notion as pacifism.
My attitude towards nationalism is similar to that toward guns; if they didn't exist we'd all be better for it. However, that's not the world we live in, and in that world they are necessary.

[Orlandokarla]

Orlando.

Do you accept that one can have the deepest, most humble respect for people who have made that sacrifice whilst still having different principles of one's own about how the country should be run?

Or, to put it another way, don't you think that part of the problem is the attitude that, unless you show that you are on one side by confirming to expectations set by that side, you are automatically against that side?

Or, simpler still, who decided what was to be intended by the singing of a national anthem?

Back on topic, I think Corbyn's behaviour was immature and ill-thought out. But my God, isn't it about time that we were grown up enough as a society to be able to have a discussion like this based in the premise that there are principles and honour on BOTH sides?

Yes, absolutely. But to unnecessarily (and publicly) show disdain for something that has a deep, emotional meaning to others is both vulgar and disrespectful. Is a brief public demonstration of unity, pride, and love for one's country the appropriate time to demonstrate your differing principles? What are people hoping for, that those around them will politely inquire as to their motivation for their protest, and then a healthy political debate will ensue on the terraces? It's just not the time, nor place.

I'm not sure it is part of the problem. Unless those expectations of conformity are unreasonable, where's the harm? If custom dictates that you stand during a national anthem to show respect, refusing to do so is obviously going to be interpreted negatively. Refusing to shake somebody's hand when offered is much the same; it will be perceived as a slight. Complying with the accepted conventions of a society so as not to offend, wherever you are, is merely good manners.

I remove my hat and stand during the US national anthem out of respect. Likewise, I bow my head during prayers at weddings and funerals, regardless of the faith. Surely, it's just common decency? It doesn't diminish my principles to do so.

Society has dictated what the meaning of the national anthem is/has become. As a member of that society, you can follow social convention, or fly in the face of it. If you choose to behave in a manner that you know is contrary, you accept the consequences.

To be fair, it's a pet peeve of mine at the moment, what with vulgar war protesters disrupting soldier's funerals, and county clerks refusing to issue gay marriage licences on the grounds of  'religious freedom.' Oh the irony.
I have a huge amount of respect for other people's opinions and beliefs, but I simply can't stand having them petulantly thrust in my face by attention-seeking people, whom demand respect for their opinions and feelings, yet display little for those of others.