does football and humanity

[drfchound]

In the forties the world decided it had to stop Hitler and lots of people died whilst it happened.
If Hitlers methods had been allowed to continue unchecked i wonder what the world would be like today?
Can we allow IS to go on unchecked?

[Glyn_Wigley]

The bombing can be done with great accuracy as proven when taking out the car in which the murderous Jihadi John was in.
Intelligence tells the pilots what the targets are and invariably they hit them.

Are you going you tell that to the family of a serviceman killed by 'friendly fire' - that they were hit with 'great accuracy'?

[drfchound]

Why, has one of our service men been hit in the recent bombings?

However, in war situations things like that happen.

Are you going to sit back and let the terrorists do what they want and not fight back?

[Glyn_Wigley]

Why, has one of our service men been hit in the recent bombings?

However, in war situations things like that happen.

Are you going to sit back and let the terrorists do what they want and not fight back?

It sounds like you think the only way to fight back is to drop bombs. Have we got Belgium's permission to bomb Brussels yet?

[drfchound]

I haven't said that is the only way and only see you asking questions but not offering any solutions.

What would you do to stop IS continuing the way they are doing?

[Glyn_Wigley]

I haven't said that is the only way and only see you asking questions but not offering any solutions.

What would you do to stop IS continuing the way they are doing?

If I was in the position of making the decisions, the first thing I would do is listen to advice from people who really know what the situation is and get their ideas about how to effectively tackle IS. Because I bet they don't just say drop bombs on them.

[drfchound]

You had better have a look at the news then and tell the French and Russians.
I am sure they know a lot more than you do.

[wilts rover]

The US, French and British secret services trained these f***ers to begin with. Time to stop meddling.

Evidence of this or have you been following RT Russia Today ? Next we will have the Illuminati brought into the equation. 

Sorry Hoola

Government watchdog Judicial Watch published more than 100 pages of formerly classified documents from the U.S. Department of Defense and the State Department.

The documents obtained through a federal lawsuit, revealed the agencies earlier views on ISIS, namely that they were a desirable presence in Eastern Syria in 2012 and that they should be “supported” in order to isolate the Syrian regime.

The U.S. intelligence documents not only confirms suspicions that the United States and some of its coalition allies had actually facilitated the rise of the ISIS in Syria – as a counterweight to the Syrian government of President Bashar al-Assad- but also that ISIS members were initially trained by members and contractors of the Central Intelligence Agency at facilities in Jordan in 2012.

The documents obtained by Judicial Watch also provide the first official documentation that the Obama administration was well aware that weapons were being shipped from Benghazi to rebel troops — including members from ISIS, the Al-Nusra Front and other Islamist terror groups — in Syria. An October 2012 report confirms thatr: “Weapons from the former Libya military stockpiles were shipped from the port of Benghazi, Libya to the Port of Banias and the Port of Borj Islam, Syria. The weapons shipped during late-August 2012 were Sniper rifles, RPG’s, and 125 mm and 155mm howitzers missiles.” The deadly and shocking attack on the U.S. diplomatic mission that saw four Americans — including a U.S. ambassador — slaughtered by jihadists occurred just weeks after the weapons shipment.

Following the downfall and killing of Gaddafi in October 2011 until almost a year later in September 2012, the desolved Libyan military’s weapons were stockpiled in Benghazi, Libya. According to the intelligence report, they were shipped from the port of Benghazi, Libya, to the ports located in Syria. The ships used to transport the weapons were medium-sized and able to hold 10 or less shipping containers of cargo, according to the documents obtained by Judicial Watch.

http://yournewswire.com/declassified-documents-obama-ordered-cia-to-train-isis/

[BillyStubbsTears]

Russia are bombing because they want to bolster Assad and get a military harbour on the Med as their reward.

France's bombing is for domestic public consumption.

[southwestexile]

And can we observe that since the bombing began, the net result has been........erm not altogether successful.

More bombs? Bigger bombs?

The landscape of government agendas is vast, I doubt that any of us will be able to come up with an effective solution on here unless we're seeking popularity/geopolitical ties/oil/trade contracts/military bases or any combination of that list.

I think if history teaches us one thing, it's never to trust the people in charge

[drfchound]

Russia are bombing because they want to bolster Assad and get a military harbour on the Med as their reward.

France's bombing is for domestic public consumption.

............and because IS have claimed responsibility for bringing down the Russian passenger airliner.

[glosterred]

Russia are bombing because they want to bolster Assad and get a military harbour on the Med as their reward.

France's bombing is for domestic public consumption.

............and because IS have claimed responsibility for bringing down the Russian passenger airliner.

Not forgetting Russia was bombing before the aircraft was brought down

[The Red Baron]

The bombing is only containing IS. The only thing that will really roll them back is ground troops. And after the experiences of Iraq and Afghanistan everybody is very wary about committing ground troops - including the Russians.

Even if you did gain a military victory over IS- which I would argue is highly probable given the success of the Kurdish militias - there would still be a huge elephant in the room, ie Assad. Also IS would undoubtedly continue to exist in some form, perhaps like Al-quaeda did, and attacks would still be carried out in its name.

It isn't a very positive outlook...

[drfchound]

Mali today, where next?

[wilts rover]

Mali today, where next?

Yes and does that not negate your point and reinforce mine? The group in Mali have no connection to IS (I believe they were actually in existence before them) and however many bombs you drop on Syria would have no effect on them.

Defeating Islamic terrorism will not be achieved by western military action alone, but by coordinated action with all the countries involved, especially in the Middle East and North Africa.

Which is after all how Hitler was defeated.

[drfchound]

Wilts, i agree, didn't you read what i wrote about the countries of the world getting together to defeat IS.
On the news at half six tonight by the way they said that an Al Queda group affiliated to IS have claimed responsibility for the Mali murders.

[wilts rover]

Sorry Hound I missed that among the Hitler references and carpet bombing.

Dont believe everything you hear on the news (the female suicide bomber who blew herself up yesterday but today didn't, being an example). IS and Al-Quaeda dont get on, if they weren't fighting us they would be fighting each other. The Mali group are an Al-Quaeda one, not that it matters to the people in the hotel which nutters they were I shouldnt think.

[BillyStubbsTears]

The Hitler comparison doesn't work.

Hitler controlled a State with defined boundaries. With an economic infrastructure and an army structure that could be attacked.

IS have none of those. They are a classic guerilla outfit. You don't defeat guerillas by confronting them with the might of 20th Century mechanised warfare. It doesn't work. Look at the examples of Russia in Afghanistan or America in Vietnam.

You defeat them by careful, surgical attacks whilst dealing with the root cause of the grievances that produce the fanatics and martyrs.

[Sammy Chung was King]

The european governments thought that if they removed Saddam Hussain, Gadaffi etc that the world would be a better place. Though by most accounts they were not good men, on the whole they were very little threat to us.
In hindsight they were poor decisions, as these people had a level of control over their countries and regions. Now the whole region seems to be short of strong leaders, the Iraq goevernment is little more than a 'Puppet' government, that agrees with whatever the european establishment want or think.

It's now a very hard situation, and one i am glad men with greater intelligence than me have to try and sort out. You can't just flatten areas killing people who don't deserve it, they are no less than us as human beings.
I am not sure IS are a group that want to negotiate, i don't personally agree with negotiating with terrorists, but i am stumped with the solution for this one.
I would assume there will be plenty of goodwill talks with other groups to try and calm the situation down, and for those groups to get control of the situation. I don't think any one thing is the answer, diplomacy, bombing actions, it will be a mixture of things needed.
Really sad that innocent people across the globe, can't go about everyday life without at least a touch of fear!.
On a more cheerful note, did i really read that El Hadj Diouf has been recruited as a 'Peace envoy' by his country?, i must have misread it surely?.

[drfchound]

It looks as though those nice people at the UN have not listened to what has been said on our forum because they have decided to increase military action against IS including more air strikes.

Can you imagine a meeting between IS leaders and World leaders ever taking place?
What could a possible outcome ever be?
Even if a settlement was agreed would the perpetrators of the murders be let off and sent home?

[wilts rover]

You dont quite understand how the world works do you hound? IS have enough guns, weapons and funding to run an army. These things dont just appear, they started somewhere. So they were, and most likely still are, in contact with (at least some) world leaders. The question is which and who can influence them? This guy thinks he knows?
http://www.globalresearch.ca/who-supports-the-islamic-state-isis-saudi-arabia-turkey-qatar-uk-france-usa/5490271

As part of the Good Friday Agreement in Northern Ireland, IRA terrorists who had not been arrested for their crimes were given immunity from prosecution. South Africa had a Truth and Reconciliation Committee. So yes, thats what happened in past conflicts.

[drfchound]

That last post started with a very patronising first line.
There are plenty of us who think that IS have to be wiped out, and not just on this forum.

[glosterred]

How do you get people to talk that don't want to talk?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Who on earth said anything about negotiating with IS?

[glosterred]

People on here don't want to bomb them into stopping their activities of bombing, murder etc. So I'm wondering, the only other way is to talk to them, or give in to their demands.

[drfchound]

Who on earth said anything about negotiating with IS?

Someone on either this or the Paris thread did.
Have a look for yourself.

[i_ateallthepies]

That last post started with a very patronising first line.
There are plenty of us who think that IS have to be wiped out, and not just on this forum.

IS are on this forum?   








Sorry guys,  I do get this is a very serious topic.

[drfchound]

You dont quite understand how the world works do you hound? IS have enough guns, weapons and funding to run an army. These things dont just appear, they started somewhere. So they were, and most likely still are, in contact with (at least some) world leaders. The question is which and who can influence them? This guy thinks he knows?
http://www.globalresearch.ca/who-supports-the-islamic-state-isis-saudi-arabia-turkey-qatar-uk-france-usa/5490271

As part of the Good Friday Agreement in Northern Ireland, IRA terrorists who had not been arrested for their crimes were given immunity from prosecution. South Africa had a Truth and Reconciliation Committee. So yes, thats what happened in past conflicts.

They didnt let the Nazis off at Nurembourg though did they so it isn't always the way to forgive and forget.
If, God forbid,one of your family was killed by IS, I wonder what you would have to say then.

[Iberian Red]

How do you get people to talk that don't want to talk?

Waterboarding and gonads wired up?

[Glyn_Wigley]

People on here don't want to bomb them into stopping their activities of bombing, murder etc. So I'm wondering, the only other way is to talk to them, or give in to their demands.

How about stopping the problem at source, by instilling regime change in Saudi Arabia, by invasion if necessary? Successive Islamic terrorist groups have been fomented, financed and armed by the Saudi regime - but because we're in thrall to the Saudis over their oil, Western governments are too scared to grasp the nettle and would rather go for crowd-pleasing firework displays to satiate the mob's bloodlust. Which is all very well...until the next terrorist sect springs up and round the mulberry bush we go again...