IDS

[BillyStubbsTears]

Come to summat hasn't it, when one of the more right wing Cabinet ministers in living memory has resigned in protest at Osborne cutting welfare for the disabled whilst giving away Capital Gains Tax cuts to the very richest.

So now, Jeremy Corbyn. You have a Tory party tearing itself apart over Europe. The viciousness of Osbornenomics laid bare by IDS. The steam running out of what very tepid growth we had over the past couple of years.

You couldn't wish for more propitious circumstances. If you don't take Labour into a 10 point lead over the next 6 months, you know what the reason will be. And the solution.

EDIT:

f**king Hell! How about this for a hand grenade from IDS's resignation letter?

"I am unable to watch passively whilst certain policies are enacted in order to meet the fiscal self imposed restraints that I believe are more and more perceived as distinctly political rather than in the national economic interest."

Exactly what I have been saying for 6 years. There is no economic need for Austerity. It is ALL about politics. Osborne has a ignored the overwhelming majority of economic theory and evidence by placing totally unnecessary emphasis on driving down the deficit. And he has done it for political reasons. To paint himself as the hard-headed grown-up and Labour as profligate.

And now, even IDS is calling him out on that lie.

[Sammy Chung was King]

Osbourne shouldn't be chancellor, he is guessing at the job. To be chancellor you should be qualified in balancing books, preferably running a company.
They get on about unskilled workers, but the government itself is unskilled, Osbourne doesn't have the experience, nous or ability to run a countries economy.
We are a country run by public schoolboys, who haven't had any life experience, how can they run the country properly if they don't know the price of things, or even have an idea of the average life in their country?.

The bankers destroyed our economy, so what do they do?, go after the sick and disabled, the normal guy getting up day after day for a wage that just about keeps his family living. Why are they so mean that they won't print money to give each family help, quatative easing is needed, they won't do this because they hate their own people, they don't want to see their people live comfortably!.
They are the most vindictive and cruel government in recent times. IDS i can't believe he has turned against them, he obviously has morals i didn't think he possessed, after his fist pumping display not so long ago.
Even the puppet gets fed up it seems, people have died under his leadership of routing the disabled, people have taken their own lives because of the pressure.

Now even Cameron's government are turning against him, because they realise it isn't for the countries good, it's vindictive attacking people are struggling as it is.
I was reading something other day, the actual number of people falsely claiming disability is something like 0.6%. Those who voted this shower in should be angry, because they lied to get in power, and have lived upto none of what they said they would do!.
The divide is only getting bigger, now Jeremy Corbyn needs to show the country he is a much better alternative, and keep bringning up, why they are failing every man woman and child in this country!.

[The Red Baron]

Very interesting! My first thought was that this was another Westland, but that was more about Michael Heseltine's ambition to become PM. IDS has had his turn at being leader and wasn't very good at it.

It might, of course, have a similar outcome as Westland. Heseltine's main adversary in Cabinet, Leon Brittan, had to go, and the focus will be on Osborne now. But I think he will survive for now- to an extent Brittan was expendable in the way that Osborne isn't. And Brittan was only a proxy for Heseltine's real target, which was Maggie herself.

IDS and Osborne have been at loggerheads for some time. Whether you agree with his approach or not, IDS sees welfare reform as a project. Osborne sees the welfare budget as something that needs to be brought under control. It's very much long term versus short term views of the world.

Also I think two things tipped the balance. IDS felt he'd been pressed to announce the changes to PIPs early - ie before all the consultations had been completed - to fit in with the Budget timescales. Then once the shit hit the fan, the DWP was forced to defend changes that look really bad (indefensible, to use IDS's own word) on their own but could possibly have been sold as part of a wider package. Secondly, I think IDS knew that if we vote to stay in the EU he would have been out. Osborne would have demanded his head and Cameron would have agreed.

Looked at in that context, it is a perfectly understandable resignation, and it is done to cause maximum political damage to Osborne. I wouldn't now wager a bent fiver on his chances of being the next Tory leader.

[Filo]

IDS hasn't suddenly found a consience, this is a calculated move to benifit IDS, nothing to do with the disabled, brexit or the well being of the Country, it's everything to do with IDS, the selfish bas**rd!

[The Red Baron]

But it doesn't benefit him, Filo. You are thinking he is acting like Heseltine over Westland, whose resignation was the opening shot in his bid to become Tory leader. IDS has had his go at being leader. Nor do I believe he's some sort of stalking horse for Boris. I don't even think the two are particularly close.

This has far more to do with it, IMO.

http://www.resolutionfoundation.org/media/blog/universal-credits-future-depends-on-whether-its-the-economics-or-the-politics-that-comes-first-for-the-treasury/

[bally1950]

This time the Election manifesto as it has been suggested has been busted, the previous Election on their manifesto was a promise not to touch pensions both Company and State using the RPI instead of CPI. They reneged on that and stated that it was only on the manifesto, they had since found need to change their plans, well they have done it again. Regarding disability just think back about three year when they just scrapped Incapacity Benefit then replaced it with the same thing under another name that you could not have for more than two years and then took that away..... People were still too ill to work in some cases,and then found themselves loosing a few hundred pounds a month and still no work. Never liked IDS he was a mouth piece. BUT I CERTAINLY ADMIRE HIM TODAY.  A budget for the rich and also a budget to stay in the EU   

[Lipsy]

IDS hasn't suddenly found a consience, this is a calculated move to benifit IDS, nothing to do with the disabled, brexit or the well being of the Country, it's everything to do with IDS, the selfish bas**rd!

This. Absolutely, totally this.

[BillyStubbsTears]

TRB

I think you are right that IDS was driven by a sense of purpose to revise welfare for what he saw as noble reasons. I happen to think that his basic premise [1] is bullshit, but I can appreciate that IDS has a political philosophy and a sense of duty to the nation [2].

Osborne, by contrast is in this game for no-one other than Osborne. That quote from IDS's resignation letter is bang on the money. Osborne does not take economic decisions in the national interest. He takes them in the political interest of Cameron and Osborne. If he's now being called out on Austerity by someone as right wing as IDS, maybe this is a game changer?

[1] He, like so many on the Right, believes that societal problems are Supply Side driven. That there is a problem with the nation's ability to supply workers who are sufficiently motivated and capable. It's all down to welfare or shit teachers or morally feckless individuals who want to slack off. Personally, I'm a Demand Side person. I believe that if the demand for people's efforts was there, supplying satisfying and well-rewarded jobs, the welfare problem would disappear overnight. The 1930-40s provides the evidence. In the Great Depression, millions were out of work because there were no jobs. And the Right castigated them for being feckless and responsible for their own idleness. When WWII broke and we needed double shifts down the pit and in the powder works, unemployment vanished. It would be the same today.

[2] Mind, I'm not going to get too dewy eyed of IDS's principles. He has been reprimanded publicly numerous times by the Office Fir National Statistics for brazenly lying in press releases purporting to show how well his welfare reforms were working. These principles of his only extend so far. They don't extend as far as accepting when his policies have actively f**kex up 100s of thousands of lives, so he lies blatantly to the press and has to be slapped down by the people who are there to be the honest brokers. In that sense, IDS is one of the most corrosive of politicians. One of the ones who justifies the public belief that they are all untrustworthy chancers. And in that sense, we're well shut of him.

[tommy toes]

It's probably true that IDS has done this forpolitical as well as moral reasons.
He's lit the blue touch paper which will hopefully lead to this immoral gang tearing itself apart over this and Europe.
Corbyn needs to be all over this like a cheap suit.
Should be an interesting watch.

[BillyStubbsTears]

This is a historic chance for Labour. Once a generation does a party rip itself apart like the Tories are starting to do.

No excuses. If Labour f**k this up and we end up with PM Boris in 2020, this will be a failure of monumental proportions.

[Lipsy]

The Tories are just taking sides over Brexit and can smell Cameron's blood should we vote to leave. On a side note (but related to Tommy Toes' comments), I'm not a fan of Corbyn but I particularly enjoyed his speech in response to the budget. He's been quick here as well: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/iain-duncan-smith-resignation-jeremy-corbyn-calls-for-george-osborne-to-go-as-well-over-disability-a6940551.html

Maybe both Corbyn and the Labour party have finally woken up. Might be interesting times ahead though the Tories have plenty of time to regroup and be nice to everyone again in time for the next election. The electorate can be quite a forgetful bunch, especially after a pre-election budget full of sweeteners.

[Lipsy]

That didn't take long. And it's someone who supports Cameron and wants us to remain in Europe.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35850932

[The Red Baron]

It is worth remembering that the Tories won the GE about a year after Westland and also won a couple of years after axing Thatcher. These things can be ridden out, particularly when the Opposition hasn't got its ducks in line.

Peter Oborne gives his near-namesake George a real kicking in the Fail today. So a right wing Cabinet minister and a right wing columnist!

[Filo]

That didn't take long. And it's someone who supports Cameron and wants us to remain in Europe.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35850932

No doubt this one will just be an arse licker, to see out Gideons plans

[Lipsy]

I don't doubt that for a single second, Filo.

[The Red Baron]

Massive missed opportunity. He could have appointed Priti Patel, who is telegenic, female and crucially an Outer. That could have placated the Eurosceptics a bit, at least till after the Referendum.

As it is, it will fuel the idea that Cameron is ready to dump the outers afterwards - assuming he wins.

[Lipsy]

I think that somebody somewhere has suggested that the Tories need to get back to a bit of "compassionate conservatism", so bringing someone in who advocates the death penalty probably doesn't fit in with that. That and the fact that she's challenged/undermined Cameron in recent times. Cameron's coasting now - just one more triumph (in this case, winning the Brexit vote) and he'll be done/gone. He just wants an easy(ish) ride.

[drfc1951]

I watched Corbyns response to the budget.He attacked Osborne with the failed failed failed on everything, a full bloodied attack.His backbenchers were sat in silence no cheering or anything.Are they the opposition party or what, i thought their silence was disgusting and they should start pulling together.

[Glyn_Wigley]

This is nothing like Westland. Heseltine resigned because deals were being done by Thatcher and her cronies behind his back in the area for which he was the Secretary of State. Any Minister with any self-respect would resign in those circumstances.

This isn't the case with IDS. Many of the measures he's suddenly developed a 'conscience' about were announced by...IDS. As the Treasury and the DWP would have worked together to work out the details of the announced measures well in advance of the Budget his apparent surprise about them just doesn't wash - if he was prepared to resign over them he would have warned Osborne and Cameron well before the Budget speech and he should have resigned on the day they were announced, not a few days later. If just doesn't smell right.

My own opinion is that IDS' reasons are just a smokescreen, as he's never shown any compunction before about putting the boot into the vulnerable. I believe that due to his Brexit leanings he knew he was toast as far as his future with Cameron was concerned and he's resigned to throw in his lot with Boris whilst trying to appear 'principled' and at the same time sticking the knife into Cameron and Osborne.

Also the fact that his Department has yet again just lost the legal case for refusing to release information requested through an FOI - and which will almost certainly show him up as having lied about the progress of the  implementation of the Universal Credit -  could well have been a factor in his decision and its timing.

IDS has been using the disabled as a political football for ages now. All that's happened is that half time has been and gone and he's changed ends and is now kicking them in the other direction. I don't believe he has any principles about this at all, it's all just a means to an end.

[Lipsy]

Though Labour is every bit the party divided (which might explain the silence), I actually prefer the HoP minus the braying and hooting. It's much less distracting and, dare I say it, respectful to the person who's talking.

[The Red Baron]

I watched Corbyns response to the budget.He attacked Osborne with the failed failed failed on everything, a full bloodied attack.His backbenchers were sat in silence no cheering or anything.Are they the opposition party or what, i thought their silence was disgusting and they should start pulling together.

The thing is that a lot of the Labour backbenchers see Corbyn as a liability who will lose them an election in 2020 that they should be capable of winning. However those things tend to have a "self-fulfilling" edge to them. I'm sure plenty of people noticed the lack of support and probably didn't think much of the Opposition as a result.

I actually think Corbyn's had a pretty good week. Many of his criticisms of the Budget were echoed elsewhere and he came over as sensible and measured on the disability cuts- it would have been easy for him to overplay his hand.

[BillyStubbsTears]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35855616

Nowt like telling it like it is, eh?

The whole Austerity line has been fantastically successful for Osborne and Cameron in terms of setting the political agenda. But it was always based on sham economics and the premise that the poorest would suffer.

When someone as far to the Right as IDS starts calling them out as starkly as he did this morning, the game is up. We're moving into post-Osborne/Austerity mania territory

[Sammy Chung was King]

Corbyn needs to stick to his principles, you cannot try to be something you are not just to try and get yourself elected, people aren't stupid they see through false people most of the time.
And that's what's happening now, people who voted for the conservatives, are realising they made a major mistake, the conservatives fooled a lot of people.
 Corbyn needs to have solutions to every problem, he needs to show despite his eccentricities he is capable of running the country, and that he see'e each person in the country as equal, whether they have money or not.
 He has to make it known he would run a fairer system, that he would prioritise his own people over other countries.

He needs to keep challenging and pick away at the governments 'Many scabs' that are forming. Labour need to use the time out of government to change, because the way they have done things in the past have similarities with this lot.
Mps need to start serving their people, and not getting into politics for their own good. Rather than labour run communities doing everything they are told, cutting funding to this that and the other, they need to rebel against them at every opportunity!.

[RobTheRover]

By the way, this is Stephen Crabb

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/11768/stephen_crabb/preseli_pembrokeshire/votes

Check out the section on his voting record on Welfare and Benefits and you can see why Gideon and Cameron have parachuted him in.  I understand he voted FOR the £30 a week cuts for the disabled.  Another sock puppet to face up their agenda, like Amber Rudd and Nicky Morgan.

[Donnywolf]

And that's what's happening now, people who voted for the conservatives, are realising they made a major mistake, the conservatives fooled a lot of people.

I tend NOT to post on the Political threads as if I ever get started I simply would never stop arguing and replying etc. The system in this Country is WRONG on almost every level. So :

My only comment on this thread is this - (and it is contentious) the VAST majority who vote Conservative now are voting for the wrong Party whether that be the last Election or the previous one or the next one.

The Conservatives should ONLY appeal (be voted for that is) by about 10% of the Electorate and the rest of us (the remaining 90%) should never Vote for them because we are The Serfs and they are the Barons - twas ever thus

That's my lot - please feel free to question my "estimates" of 10/90 as it may be erroneous and should possibly by 5/95 ?

[Glyn_Wigley]

You're forgetting the people who think they're Barons when they are in fact serfs who are being fooled into thinking that way.

[The Red Baron]

By the way, this is Stephen Crabb

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/11768/stephen_crabb/preseli_pembrokeshire/votes

Check out the section on his voting record on Welfare and Benefits and you can see why Gideon and Cameron have parachuted him in.  I understand he voted FOR the £30 a week cuts for the disabled.  Another sock puppet to face up their agenda, like Amber Rudd and Nicky Morgan.

I'm not defending him and I agree that there are plenty of Yes Men and Yes Women in Cameron's cabinet. However he has been a member of the Government (as a whip or a minister) since 2010. So unless he had an IDS moment and decided to resign he was always going to vote for Government policy.

Like it or not, that's how Collective Responsibility works.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Collective Responsibility only applies to the Cabinet...

[tommy toes]

You're not wrong John.
I think in the future there will be more and more coalition governments as in other countries.
It's tragic that the Tories have a majority this time. At least the Lib Dems had some influence on policy during the last government and could question some of the more draconian ideas these people come up with.
As much as I would like it I don't think Corbyn can get elected as it stands. It would take a massive sea change in public thinking.
He needs to not only get his party behind him but encourage other minority groups to buy into his ideas for a fairer, anti austerity approach. To do this he needs to distance himself from the Socialist Worker/Marxist image he has, as people are still frightened of the 'Reds under the bed', and concentrate on his ideas and plans which if you just listen and investigate, make complete sense, including Trident. This is why he came from nowhere and has the support of tens of thousands of people who previously had little interest in politics.

[The Red Baron]

Collective Responsibility only applies to the Cabinet...

It doesn't, Glyn. It applies to the whole of the Government's "Payroll Vote." It goes beyond departmental ministers and whips, and extends to Parliamentary Private Secretaries, who are unpaid  "bag-carriers" for senior ministers.

Only on declared "Free Votes" are ministers (or shadows) given freedom to depart the official line. Remember the vote on air strikes in Syria? Corbyn had to give his MPs a free vote or many shadow ministers would have resigned.

Dem's da rules...