Is Roy right?

[Copps is Magic]

Not going to lie, had a few Bucks fizz. Vardy chance wasn't the only one. What about the one Skurtle toed off the line, don't know what England player it was. Miracle defending.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Copps: It was Alli's chance. It was good, competent defending.

Dickos: Aye, we've controlled matches. In a group of very, very poor quality. As I've been saying for months (in fact years...in fact, decades) wait until we play a half decent side...

[Akinfenwa]

For the next round:

[Sammy Chung was King]

Well that didn't work out did it?, and no doubt we will end up with portugal in the next round, when it could have been albania!. We did it under sven in the 2002 world cup, we needed a certain result, which would have meant us facing a beatable nigeria, instead we got brazil !.
This is going to sound stupid, but i thought tonights game, would have been ideal for sterling starting, kane, just looks jaded, what's happened to him?, he looks similar to the start of the season.

In hindsight i was wrong, because i just tipped in favour of Roy making changes. I thought the full backs compared to most in this tournament, had a good game, but compared to our first choices they were disappointing.
Just remember though, this game, the opposition were sitting in the spaces and telling us to come and break them down, wales were adventurous when they had the chance.
This game was an almost exact copy of the russia game, only in this game we had even more possession, more shots and failed to score one!.

Henderson i give him a lot of criticism, but all game he was trying different things to break them down. What we gained on the physical side with him, we lost in creativity with Alli on the bench.
Sturridge was a major disappointment. Yes he had no space, but i don't think he was getting into the right positions to damage them, and he lacked confidence in himself.
Vardy had a couple of chances, one that wilshere set up, he really should have scored. He wasn't really a factor in the game, with his pace he should have been stretching them across the field a bit.

Wilshere apart from that great ball he played for vardy, went downhill from that point. Lallana looked no threat at all, he looked to have needed the game off rather than others.
Sterling in hindsight might have been the choice over lallana to start. I thought he picked our best two strikers, then put no creativity behind them. Could it be a case of giving the fans what they want, while reducing their chances of scoring?. Because he really wants to play the line up that started against russia?.
Dier was just about our best player tonight, composed on the ball, and tried to create. That was a really tough game for subs to come on and really influence the game. Rooney really didn't get into the game properly, Alli neither apart from the goal he almost scored.

Smalling produced his one error a game, we were very lucky with that, apart from that him, cahill and hart would have more action against a lower league english side.
All tonight told me, is we have solid replacements, but not one's that can take us much further. It's why i think he made a bad error not selecting Andros Townsend instead of milner, and also Drinkwater over henderson, even though he did well tonight, he hasn't picked them, so it doesn't matter.
Barkley this game also could have suited him, with his ability to run with a ball, it's pass, pass, pass. I'm not comparing him to gazza, but he is as near to him and his style that we have, i thought he made the wrong changes.

I would have gone with

                                          Hart

                                   Smalling   Stones

                              Clyne                        Bertrand

                                              Dier

                                    Alli                 Sterling

                                               Barkley

                                      Sturridge       Vardy

 All we can hope for is that drawing this game, thus losing the group doesn't hurt us, and that the games rest does the players rested a lot of good.
No disrespect to Henderson etc, they put the effort in, but the team went back to just being a solid hard to beat team. There wasn't enough invention in the midfield, the movement of the strikers wasn't good enough, and yet again the final ball just wasn't there.
We had run out of ideas by the hour mark. Sterling should have been brought on, Barkley and i would have put young Rashford on.
 Rooney wasn't the sub we needed, we needed Sterling to run at defenders, Barkley and Rashford to do the same.
 It sounds imbecilic not bring on you're best player, but i think rashford might just have given us something different, along with the other two.
 The manager seems to have certain players that 'must come on', instead of looking at what is needed.
A chance missed at not topping the group, let's hope it doesn't cost us. A different manager and we could have nicked that game, he made decisions but not the one's needed!.

[BillyStubbsTears]

For the next round:

It's not who we will face NEXT. Its the fact that France are then waiting in the QFs. When it could have been (probably) one of Hungary, Portugal, Belgium and Sweden.

[Sammy Chung was King]

We will get Portugal, Ronaldo won't have another goal free game!.

[Nudga]

I wouldn't mind Portugal. They look like a team that isn't getting on together. Ronaldo is out of sorts and blaming everyone else but himself, kyle Walker will have him in his pocket.
I think a lot of you guys are being a bit unfair in your criticism of England.
I thought before the game that we'd win 3-0 but Slovakia played very deep with10 players behind the ball.  We couldn't get behind them so had to try and go through them. At one point, I noticed they had four players in a centre back position.
Someone mentioned we were trying to play like Spain, I disagree, if anything we were in too much of a hurry to get at Slovakia where it hurts.
We could have moved the ball about a bit more 40 yards out to try and find pockets and also tire them out.
I would have been worried if we looked like we didn't have any ideas in these three games but we've played very well.
These first round games are tense affairs, but we are through, first stage mission completed.
Why worry who we might play later in the competition? I've only seen Italy  (in one game) and Spain ( in one game) look really good.
Chill out and enjoy the build up to the next game. The fun starts here.

[GazLaz]

Had Vardy tucked that chance away and Alli's chance gone in people would be lauding a brilliant performance. Vardy was an odds on chance to score there and it was a miracle block on the like for the Alli chance. MS did very well but still could have done very well to get there and put it in his own net.

The last 10 minutes or so after they put a nail in it and had 11 men camped in the box we struggled a bit but prior to that whe had dragged their defence all over the place to create space in and around the box. Lallana's movement was excellent.

You are never usually too far away from the mark BST but I disagree with you here. We have been very good in all 3 games without taking as many chances as we may have and the odd defensive error. The shape has been very good and very fluid at times. 

[GazLaz]

The bigger issue is the fact through not winning the group they have to relocate or travel to southern France from their northern base. It will be a lot warmer down there as well.

[Bentley Bullet]

You have to laugh really when you listen to some comments from us English about our own team. You can expect silly amateur responses from posters on a public forum like this one, but when professional journalists come out with it on TV it makes you realise there's no wonder why some people emulate them.

A prime example came this morning when an ITV reporter gushed about Wales' successful tournament so far, explaining that Wales did what England couldn't when they put 3 goals past Russia. He was obviously insinuating that this was proof that Wales are superior to England, completely disregarding the fact that England beat them the other day!

Now I know that some people on here will also think Wales are better than England, claiming that tables don't lie, etc. It really does take all sorts, at all levels of intellect!

[Jonathan]

I think it would take a bit of a skewed perspective to put the spotlight on a single piece of shaky defending (that amounted to nothing but was as close as our opponent came to a goal) and dismiss everything we created at the other end.

That said, it was a frustrating watch and after a bright start I felt we ran out of ideas in the end. 5 points from a group of that quality is a poor total but we're through and have to move on from that now.

I'd say Hungary would be the most likely opponent in the next round. Not sure why all the focus on Portugal but if it is to be them then so be it.

We've got through the group largely untroubled and, whilst it has been frustrating that we haven't found the cutting edge yet, we haven't been put on the back foot for any sustained spell in any game. I feel there's more to come from this team.

[DevilMayCry]

I don't think Wales is better than England, I think that Wales stays only in 2 players, Bale and Ramsey. They attacked more when they played against weaker teams or teams with approximate the same value, but when they meat better teams, they play only counter-attack, like many other teams.

[The Red Baron]

We can't be sure of course, but I think if changes had been kept to a minimum we would have had more chance of winning the game.

Leaving out Rooney was the big one for me. He's the captain and I want the captain to be able to read the situation and make minor changes on the field. By the time Rooney got on the game had taken shape and was the football equivalent of trench warfare.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Ultimately though why the fear of France etc. If we want to win it we have to beat strong sides.  Quarters would be OK, semis very good, final exceptional.

Anyone who compares England and Wales look at the margins, Ie late goals. Also look at how the teams played against Wales, which meant more space for them. The better teams should give us more opportunity to play, it may help us.

[The Red Baron]

Puts it better than I could:

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36580159

[bobjimwilly]

One thing to consider is Russia and Slovakia were set up to defend and play for 1 point when they played us; when they played Wales they were more attack minded and would have been in the mindset they had more chance of winning, which then left them open to the counter-attack, which Wales are set up perfectly to take advantage of.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Puts it better than I could:

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36580159

But what about all them chances?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Ultimately though why the fear of France etc. If we want to win it we have to beat strong sides.  Quarters would be OK, semis very good, final exceptional.

Anyone who compares England and Wales look at the margins, Ie late goals. Also look at how the teams played against Wales, which meant more space for them. The better teams should give us more opportunity to play, it may help us.

1) That "you have to beat strong sides" comment misses the point by a wide margin. In tournament football, you can have an easy route to the latter stages or a hard route. If you have a hard route, even the best side in the world is has the dice loaded against them. The probability is that sooner or later, someone trips you up. We have, through a combination of bizarre team selection (Wilshere? I mean, really? Wilshere?) and limitations of the players just chucked away what should have been a relatively easy route to the semi-finals and taken on what looks like a much harder one. It doesn't help.

2) I keep hearing that we might find it easier against better, more expansive teams. Yes, maybe we'll be able to get in behind them. But what do you think they will do to us?

[Nudga]

Not a lot when they are three nil down after 20 minutes haha.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Right. It's time for that biennial question.

How many of the world's leading nations have England beaten in the knockout stages of Euros and World Cups since 1966?

[Scooter]

Spain in 96. Now I'm struggling...

[BillyStubbsTears]

That one at a stretch. Spain were never really a top footballing nation pre-2008.

Any more?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Here's the full record.

EC68 Lost to Yugoslavia
WC70 Lost to West Germany
EC72 Lost to West Germany in what was effectively the QF
WC86 Beat Paraguay. Lost to Argentina
WC90 Beat Belgium and Cameroon. Lost to W Germany
EC96 Beat Spain. Lost to Germany
WC98 Lost to Argentina
WC02 Beat Denmark. Lost to Brazil
EC04 Lost to Portugal
WC06 Beat Ecuador. Lost to Portugal
WC10 Lost to Germany.
EC12 Lost to Italy.

In 50 years, we've a grand total of 6 wins and 12 defeats in knockout stages of tournaments. In the last two decades, we've beaten Denmark and Ecuador.

[The Red Baron]

Puts it better than I could:

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36580159

But what about all them chances?

We created chances, but not enough clear cut ones. The point he's making is that it was folly to make so many team changes.

Going back to chances and conversion, we've left the best pure box predator back at home.

[Bentley Bullet]

Puts it better than I could:

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36580159

But what about all them chances?

We created chances, but not enough clear cut ones. The point he's making is that it was folly to make so many team changes.

Going back to chances and conversion, we've left the best pure box predator back at home.

Theo?

[TheFunk]

Wasn't Spain 96 a draw.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Ok. If you take penalty shoot out defeats to be actually draws (which I do to be honest, but the consensus seems to be against that) then our record over the past 50 years is (taking into account the two-legged "QF" in 1972):

P19 W5 D8 L6

Victories against Paraguay, Belgium, Cameroon, Denmark and Ecuador

Draws against (West) Germany x3, Spain, Argentina, Italy and Portugal x2

Defeats against Yugoslavia, (West) Germany x2, Brazil, Argentina


Sobering reading for a country that thinks of itself as a major footballing power.

Even worse is that fact that 10 times in the past 22 tournaments (ignoring Spain 82 which was a bizarre format) we've not even made it to the knockout stages.

[Bentley Bullet]

I doubt anyone would deny the english were shite at penalties when representing their country. If they weren't our record would be far better. I reckon the reason for it is down to the english media   putting them under intolerable pressure by breathing down their necks almost hoping they miss so that they can produce a story of ridicule the next day. The extra pressure caused by this also affects their general performance in games.

It's sad that the gullible members of the public have been brainwashed into copying the press with this attitude.

I've said it before, and I'm saying it again. The english media only like losers.

[The Red Baron]

Just seen the goals for Wales, criminal defending from Russia. Disgrace to the tournament them.

Off to the Salt Mines for them.

[The Red Baron]

You can't expect the same team of players to play 7 games in 29 days - in heat, in frenetic paced international football, and win the tournament. We're going need a squad to win it.

I was thinking about that. However, would you rather run out of steam in the semis or get knocked out in the quarters or before simply because you'd caused yourselves to go down a tougher route?

Anyway, by the time you get to the last four, most teams will be running on adrenaline anyway.