One immediate effect of Brexit vote

[BillyStubbsTears]

Idler

Which part of "France" was that?

[Glyn_Wigley]

Johnathon the problem with sturgeon is she wants Scotland to go it alone do you really think that is the best idea for them?

What Jonathan - or you - think about it is irrelevant. it's what THEY think about it.

[idler]

Idler

Which part of "France" was that?

That was my take on the French president's speech yesterday.
I didn't catch it all as I'm in Rhodes but that is how it came across to me.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Idler. I saw excerpts of Hollande's speech and I've read transcripts of it on line. I've not seen anything that sounds remotely like what you describe.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Idler. I saw excerpts of Hollande's speech and I've read transcripts of it on line. I've not seen anything that sounds remotely like what you describe.

Perhaps it's been through a Boris filter!

[idler]

Idler. I saw excerpts of Hollande's speech and I've read transcripts of it on line. I've not seen anything that sounds remotely like what you describe.

Did he not say the France was at the centre of Europe and created Europe also indicating that France would become a leader in Europe?
I took his speech to mean he intended France to fill any gap left by the UK.
I'm on holiday so have only caught parts on Sky news as there is only that and BBC world news.
Either him or Junkers said that there would be profound change in the EU.
Maybe profound change offered earlier would have led to a different result.

[idler]

Idler. I saw excerpts of Hollande's speech and I've read transcripts of it on line. I've not seen anything that sounds remotely like what you describe.

Perhaps it's been through a Boris filter!

It wasn't even a beer filter. It's so warm here I hardly ate anything yesterday and only had about three quarters of a pint of lager.
Certainly a waste of all inclusive.

[swintonrover]

It might just be me, but I think Cameron and Boris are just pawns in a bigger plot. Think:
Cameron knew the vote would go against him as the referendum vote is way more black and white than a general election. Boris is a popular guy, so to have him on the opposite side helped with that. They both know Brexit was going to happen.

They also knew that the proposal for a second Scottish referendum would occur. If Scotland goes independent, (which is looking increasingly likely), then we will have Tory rule forever and a day.
The Labour party as a leadership concept is f**ked without Scotland (See the General Election) as the structure of the voting means that the Tories will always get majority.
Cameron has deliberately fallen on his sword, but in doing so has effectively made this a one party state, regardless of who rules the parties.

[wilts rover]

It does look as though the people who voted for Brexit to reduce immigration may have actually increased it. The Mayor of Calais is pressing the French government to remove the right of Britain to carry out immigration checks on the French side of the Channel Tunnel - which would then allow the thouands of migrants in Calais through it and into Britain.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36626553

[DevilMayCry]

You know the video about how UK politicians and Royal family are descendants from migrants

https://www.facebook.com/100000200228137/videos/1306550782694917/?pnref=story

[idler]

We are all descended from immigrants/invaders DMC.
The arguement should be about how many can come and over what time scale. Letting a lot of people arrive at once with no job,house money or places for their children does nobody any good.

[DevilMayCry]

We are all descended from immigrants/invaders DMC.
The arguement should be about how many can come and over what time scale. Letting a lot of people arrive at once with no job,house money or places for their children does nobody any good.

I agree with that

and to distinguish atmosphere for a little time  One of the reasons she voted to leave is based on chicken and eggs 
https://www.facebook.com/212667045793913/videos/212815595779058/

[The Red Baron]

It does look as though the people who voted for Brexit to reduce immigration may have actually increased it. The Mayor of Calais is pressing the French government to remove the right of Britain to carry out immigration checks on the French side of the Channel Tunnel - which would then allow the thouands of migrants in Calais through it and into Britain.

http://www

It does look as though the people who voted for Brexit to reduce immigration may have actually increased it. The Mayor of Calais is pressing the French government to remove the right of Britain to carry out immigration checks on the French side of the Channel Tunnel - which would then allow the thouands of migrants in Calais through it and into Britain.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36626553

.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36626553

She tries that on a regular basis. I don't blame her for trying to shift the problem but it isn't going to happen any time soon.

[wilts rover]

It does look as though the people who voted for Brexit to reduce immigration may have actually increased it. The Mayor of Calais is pressing the French government to remove the right of Britain to carry out immigration checks on the French side of the Channel Tunnel - which would then allow the thouands of migrants in Calais through it and into Britain.

http://www

It does look as though the people who voted for Brexit to reduce immigration may have actually increased it. The Mayor of Calais is pressing the French government to remove the right of Britain to carry out immigration checks on the French side of the Channel Tunnel - which would then allow the thouands of migrants in Calais through it and into Britain.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36626553

.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36626553

She tries that on a regular basis. I don't blame her for trying to shift the problem but it isn't going to happen any time soon.

Its the rules of the European Union that have stopped her previously TRB. We have just voted to reject those rules.

[Dutch Uncle]

Excellent post Jonathan, and if you don't mind I would like to post this reflection from a much younger friend of mine:

I'm angry. Shocked and devastated too, but mostly angry. Angry that my country has chosen a path of nationalism and isolationism when what the world desperately needs is more inclusivity and cooperation. Angry that the economic and political future of my generation has been jeopardised by an older generation yearning for a golden age to which – if it ever existed – we cannot and will not return. Angry that a fundamental part of my identity – I have always identified as British, not English or Scottish – looks set to be fractured as the tensions of a divided nation prove too much for our fragile union to bear.

Most of all, I'm angry at the monumental failure of our political establishment. At the short-sighted, party-political posturing which led to this referendum being called in the first place. At the fear-mongering and falsehoods which characterised a dismal and deplorable campaign (on both sides), and most importantly at the the refusal of the mainstream parties to take seriously the concerns of the working class people who voted to leave and who will be most affected by the economic turmoil which results.

For decades the liberal, metropolitan elite of which the majority of those in Westminster are a part have been far too quick to dismiss the legitimate fears and complaints of the poorest members of our society as bigotry, laziness and ignorance, and in doing so have fuelled the resentment and disenchantment which populists such as Nigel Farage have exploited. Couple that with the crippling austerity imposed by the Tory government, the navel-gazing and infighting of the Labour Party, and the self-immolation of the Liberal Democrats, and it's no wonder that such a significant proportion of the population – who are indeed mostly 'ordinary, decent people' – chose to 'put two fingers up to the political class'. That they did so in this way is, I believe, a tragic and potentially catastrophic mistake, but one which we should not cheapen or minimise by throwing around simplistic labels like 'idiot' and fascist'. To do so would be to perpetuate the very cycle of condescension, disempowerment and frustration which got us here in the first place.

I understand the desire to lash out, to rail and fulminate and apportion blame. I feel it too. But I think that the best thing we can do with that energy, that righteous indignation, is channel it into meaningful action. I can't change what happened on Thursday – the decision has been made and accepting that the will of the majority is not always the same as one's own is an integral part of living in a democracy – but I can start doing now what I wish I had started doing a few weeks ago: campaigning to make the UK as open, inclusive, and forward-thinking a nation as it can be. Whatever else happens, this is an unprecedented opportunity for us to take stock, to rethink our place in the world, and to reshape our national discourse. And if through that process we can become even a little more compassionate and understanding as a society, then maybe something good will have come out of this debacle after all.

This resonates with me, and is far better than anything I could have written
 

[Lipsy]

Props to Jonathan - that was quite something. Thank you.

I'm still processing it all/in shock at the moment. If we have to accept this (and we do), the one tiny sliver of joy that I am panning out of the cesspool of shit is that pretty much every single major promise that Leave made has been retracted within 24 hours. Money. NHS. Immigration - you name it, they've back-peddled. It's a perverse pleasure, I know, but you have to get it where you can.

I seem to recall BST saying that Leave voters had been duped (apologies if I am misquoting and/or misappropriating). Well, it's taken 24 hours for him to be proven correct, and - you know what? - I fear it's only going to get worse.

[MachoMadness]

It does look as though the people who voted for Brexit to reduce immigration may have actually increased it. The Mayor of Calais is pressing the French government to remove the right of Britain to carry out immigration checks on the French side of the Channel Tunnel - which would then allow the thouands of migrants in Calais through it and into Britain.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36626553

B-but that was supposed to be just scaremongering!

[bpoolrover]

Props to Jonathan - that was quite something. Thank you.

I'm still processing it all/in shock at the moment. If we have to accept this (and we do), the one tiny sliver of joy that I am panning out of the cesspool of shit is that pretty much every single major promise that Leave made has been retracted within 24 hours. Money. NHS. Immigration - you name it, they've back-peddled. It's a perverse pleasure, I know, but you have to get it where you can.

I seem to recall BST saying that Leave voters had been duped (apologies if I am misquoting and/or misappropriating). Well, it's taken 24 hours for him to be proven correct, and - you know what? - I fear it's only going to get worse.

no1 has been duped, the only person who promised the Nhs that kind of money was farage,he has no power and was not part of the official leave campaign in effect it's like me promising it them

[Donnywolf]

Perhaps not duped but its hard to watch this from last night without feeling that the Leave protagonists were a little less than truthful on immigration as well as the 350 Million a week figure

This one is like a rabbit in the headlights

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36628894

[Lipsy]

I'll just leave this here...

[IDM]

No. I haven't had the time.

I've spent the evening explaining to my part-Italian 9 year old that he won't have to "f**k off home" as someone kindly suggested to him at school today.

So you'll understand if I'm a bit short f**king tempered.

What you're really bad tempered about is the fact that people went out yesterday, voted based on their beliefs/gut instinct, and collectively that has outweighed the views of those that wanted to mean (which includes YOUR beliefs).

For weeks, on here and probably out door-knocking, you've pushed your REMAIN ideologies down the throats of people - it hasn't worked and you don't like it.

We're leaving the EU, so you've either got two options - one is to be a doom-mongering, doom merchant for however long and be a union-sceptic or the second option is to prepare for a future (whatever that does actually hold).

How on earth did this country overcome the Second World War (something far more testing than we've ever gone through in our lifetime) and survive in the 1950s/1960s, eh? Long before the European Union came to a fruition.

Regards

An uneducated LEAVE supporter, who voted based on what was important to me.

Rigo, who the f**k are you to make a judgement on what someone else's emotional state is caused by - based on what you deduce from a thread post?

All parties spin and lie to win votes.  Now we are hearing all sorts of soundbites that post Brexit immigration won't be tightened, and NHS spending won't be increased, so SOME leave voters feel conned.  Do any stay voters feel conned?

If voters are "conned" in a general election campaign then a few years later they have the chance to vote again.

With the Brexit we won't get that chance, so on this occasion the political rhetoric, spin and downright lies (on both sides) is totally inexcusable.

Do YOU think the spin (lies) is excusable??

[GazLaz]

I'll just leave this here...

To be fair that in no ways says let's put £350m into the NHS does it.

[no eyed deer]

I wasn't overly keen on Europe  and feel it's run for the benefit of the German economy. But I think the referendum  was lost, when the people who have nothing, and had nothing to lose in voting out, came out in the droves to vote against the establishment. 

[IDM]

I'll just leave this here...

To be fair that in no ways says let's put £350m into the NHS does it.

Oh come on!  Of course this implies that the EU funding could be redirected to the NHS - " we send to the EU/let's fund the NHS instead"

What ELSE could that statement mean??

Yes it is easy to say it doesn't meant it will definitely be all £350 million a week going to the NHS, and many people would understand that, but it is a clearly emotive statement that many voters will have taken as what a Brexit could mean.

If it wasn't supposed to make folks think that is what a Brexit could mean, then why did they bother making the statement in the first place - in big f**king letters on the side of a campaign bus??

Unless of course you were being sarcastic?  In which case I retract...

[Glyn_Wigley]

It does look as though the people who voted for Brexit to reduce immigration may have actually increased it. The Mayor of Calais is pressing the French government to remove the right of Britain to carry out immigration checks on the French side of the Channel Tunnel - which would then allow the thouands of migrants in Calais through it and into Britain.

http://www

It does look as though the people who voted for Brexit to reduce immigration may have actually increased it. The Mayor of Calais is pressing the French government to remove the right of Britain to carry out immigration checks on the French side of the Channel Tunnel - which would then allow the thouands of migrants in Calais through it and into Britain.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36626553

.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36626553

She tries that on a regular basis. I don't blame her for trying to shift the problem but it isn't going to happen any time soon.

When we leave the EU, UK officials won't have any right to operate on foreign soil so it will happen eventually.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Props to Jonathan - that was quite something. Thank you.

I'm still processing it all/in shock at the moment. If we have to accept this (and we do), the one tiny sliver of joy that I am panning out of the cesspool of shit is that pretty much every single major promise that Leave made has been retracted within 24 hours. Money. NHS. Immigration - you name it, they've back-peddled. It's a perverse pleasure, I know, but you have to get it where you can.

I seem to recall BST saying that Leave voters had been duped (apologies if I am misquoting and/or misappropriating). Well, it's taken 24 hours for him to be proven correct, and - you know what? - I fear it's only going to get worse.

no1 has been duped, the only person who promised the Nhs that kind of money was farage,he has no power and was not part of the official leave campaign in effect it's like me promising it them

But you weren't given god knows how much TV and media time to spout as much b*llocks as you wanted to.

[Glyn_Wigley]

I'll just leave this here...

To be fair that in no ways says let's put £350m into the NHS does it.

How do YOU interpret 'We send the EU £350 million a week let's fund the NHS instead' then?

[Lipsy]

I'm not looking for an argument with anyone about all of this, although I am most definitely decompressing. Sorry about that. There has been A LOT of fantastic thoughts and words shared on this 'ere forum over the last few weeks and months. I neither have the skill nor mindset right now to even begin to offer anything comparable.

However, a mate just sent me this. It chimed with me and is probably at least a million times better than anything that I could spit out of my fingers.

[IDM]

I was addressing YOU about your assumption about BST, please answer.

I don't speak for those who may have labelled leave voters as that, if you read this forum enough you'll see I only speak for myself

I voted remain for family reasons only as my partner is German and she lives with me in the UK - not that it is any of your business, is it??

[IDM]

I was addressing YOU about your assumption about BST, please answer.

I don't speak for those who may have labelled leave voters as that, if you read this forum enough you'll see I only speak for myself

I voted remain for family reasons only as my partner is German and she lives with me in the UK - not that it is any of your business, is it??

You voted based on your circumstances/reasons/preferences - exactly how it should be. I did likewise, based on mine.

That's called a democracy and it leads to a result...

Yes I agree completely - my other point on the other thread is about ensuring the electorate is more accurately represented as a whole.

But I challenged you about your assumptions on BST's thinking - yet you didn't answer.