One immediate effect of Brexit vote

[BillyStubbsTears]

Rigo'd doing his age-old thing of not reading properly what people write and responding to what he things (or wants?) them to have written.

I certainly didn't refer to Leave voters as "uneducated". What I did do, was to present factual evidence that there was a strong negative correlation between the average educational attainment level in each voting area, and the % voting Leave in that region.

That is a fact. Not a FACT. But one of the humbler type. The type that Gove etc were so keen to tell you to ignore.

Some people get upset with facts that make them feel uncomfortable. And sometimes, people lash out when faced with that situation. Like our prospective Second in Command to PM Boris did, when he compared the most experienced economic minds in the country to Hitler's lickspittles, because they presented evidence that he didn't like.

Other people, like Rigo, aren't as sophisticated as Gove, but their response comes from the same idea. If someone tells you something that you don't like and you haven't got an argument against them, accuse them of being beneath contempt.

Our politics has rarely sunk to those levels. But that's the genie that's now out of the bottle. Rational, fact-based argument is to be rejected. And people who argue like that are fair targets for personal abuse.

Fun times ahead eh?

[Lipsy]

I said earlier that I have been getting a crumb of comfort seeing the lies being revealed and the back-peddling the Brexiteers have been doing. I have a new pleasure now; seeing Daily Mail readers realising what they've voted for...

[BillyStubbsTears]

Rigo

You're doing it again. I was giving you a fact. What do you want me to do? Lie to you?

And I was canvassing in Denaby before your balls had dropped, so there's no need for your advice thank you.

And once again. I have not once used the word "uneducated". YOU are the one who has debased this discussion by introducing that term.

Why do you do it?

PS: final bit of information. Canvassing on polling day is nothing to do with "shoving ideologies down people's throats." I can explain what the process is if you're interested. But I suspect you won't be, as it won't match the image that you want to be true.

[Glyn_Wigley]

PS: final bit of information. Canvassing on polling day is nothing to do with "shoving ideologies down people's throats." I can explain what the process is if you're interested. But I suspect you won't be, as it won't match the image that you want to be true.

I think that it's the Leaver's idea of what canvassing is like, if my experience of one is anything to go by. So it's not surprising that they'd think everybody else stoops to the same level also.

[Padge_DRFC]

Don't forget to wipe your dummies every time you spit them out.

In other news I won £90 from the result. Haha

[BillyStubbsTears]

Rigo.

I give up. If you are determined to paint this picture, then you're impervious to anything else.

Canvassing on Election Day is about going from house to house, asking whether people are Leave or Remain supporters.

If you're on my side and someone is a Remain supporter, you ask if they have voted. If they haven't, you remind them about the importance of their vote and even offer to drive them to the polling station.

If they are Remain voters, you wish them good luck and move on.

What, exactly did you think happened? We went round and harangued Leave supporters and threatened to kneecap them?

Your other question is so facile that it suggests that you are spoiling for a fight rather than a sensible discussion. Your choice.

Of course I've accepted the result. As you can see if you bother to read my posts, including one to you?

Why do you do this Rigo? What do you get out of it?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Then don't listen to the sound. Read what I write. It's very simple.

You are a strange one Rigo. You're an intelligent lad but for years you've offer nothing on here but anger, misinterpretation contrariness. And then whining when people snap and give you a gobful.

I wonder what your demons are.

Actually, no I don't. I couldn't give a f**k. I'm just sad that it's your country that my kids will be growing up in. Very sad.

[Glyn_Wigley]

It doesn't sound like you've accepted it.

Is it really beyond you to tell the difference between accepting the result of a vote and disagreeing with the result of a vote? Because either it is beyond you or you're being deliberately contentious.

[BillyStubbsTears]

We'll just stick with misinterpretation in this case then. An absolute insistence on ignoring what other people say and building up a construct of what you think they say and think.

Are you a lonely man?

[DevilMayCry]

Something what an english lad wrote on facebook:

"If you voted out because of "unelected politicians" then well done because we're about to get an unelected prime minister.

If you voted out because of immigration then well done, because you just lost the right of free movement too. Just wait 'til you have to get a visa to go to Glasgow or Belfast.

If you voted out because people were "stealing your jobs" then well done, because you're about to see Germany and France "steal" Nissan and a bunch of other companies who only manufacture here as a gateway to the eu market.

If you voted out because you think we'll get a great trade deal with the EEA "like Norway did", think again. Take a look around your Sainsbury's Local and try and find any fruit and veg that's grown in the UK. We need them more than they need us, and like the EEA, we'll have to accept EU policies like free movement as part of a trade deal anyway - except now we won't be able to have any say in them.

If you voted out because of vague scaremongering headlines like "Migrant Crisis" then please, feel free to remind me when it was that Syria joined the EU.

If you voted out because Farage promised £350m for the NHS, then I'm sure you'll be happy to watch him on This Morning revealing that that was a lie.

If you voted out and you're heading into retirement, then great job! Because now the working people of this nation will break their backs to afford your pension without the influx of young, economically active and skilled EU migrants.

If you voted out because you think we'll be better off, the £ has just fallen by 8% against the dollar.

And if you voted out because you love this country, prepare to see it crumble, with threats of a unified Ireland and an independent Scotland just hours after the result was confirmed.

Well done, Britain."

[Lipsy]

A friend just posted this on Facebook. Hopefully this clears up the £350m nonsense for some people.

[BillyStubbsTears]

And old Nige eh?

Worra card.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-referendum-nigel-farage-nhs-350-million-pounds-live-health-service-u-turn-a7102831.html

[BillyStubbsTears]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_8mduTEvnU0

[Glyn_Wigley]

I wonder how much we can give the NHS if we pull out of NATO..?

[Lipsy]

Here's an interesting one doing the rounds. I absolutely don't subscribe to the idea that this will happen. What I do like, however, is that Cameron - in his final effective moments as PM - shafted BJ, Gove and co:

"If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.

Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.

With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.

How?

Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.

And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.

The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.

The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?

Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?

Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.

If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.

The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.

When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.

All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign."

[Lipsy]

I wonder how much we can give the NHS if we pull out of NATO..?

Millions, probably. If we can give £350m of made-up money, we can offer unicorns and rainbows if we pull out of NATO. That's how it works, right?

[Glyn_Wigley]

I wonder how much we can give the NHS if we pull out of NATO..?

Millions, probably. If we can give £350m of made-up money, we can offer unicorns and rainbows if we pull out of NATO. That's how it works, right?

Of course, then we can go after the money we spend as UN members and all our problems are solved!

[Lipsy]

And then foreign aid. We can't even look after ourselves - why should we show compassion for the plight of others overseas?

Sadly, as we both know, people think like that...

[The Red Baron]

Lipsy

I mentioned yesterday that there is a scenario by which Referendum 2.0 could take place, although I think it highly unlikely. But basically your post aligns to that, so here goes.

1. U.K. Delays signing Article 50 until new Tory leader chosen.
2. New PM seeks fresh mandate. Gets approval of opposition to override Fixed Term Parliament Act. Says will trigger Article 50 once he has mandate.
3. Labour pledges Referendum 2.0 in manifesto.
4. Labour wins GE. New PM informs EU he has no intention of triggering Article 50 until second referendum in which he will urge Remain vote.
5. Referendum 2.0 produces win for Remain.

Obstacles to be overcome:

1. New Tory PM would have to seek mandate. Precedent does not demand that a change of PM requires a GE.
2. He (could be a she of course!) might decide to commence Article 50 process straight away.
3. Labour would require an electable leader!
4. Remain would have to win Referendum 2.0. Ideally by a big margin.
5. The EU would have to be prepared to wait. At present, Angela Merkel excepted, most of the key players want us out asap.

Not my view, btw. I think it's time we accepted the fact we've made a decision and get on with making the best (most?) of it.

[darren61]

You hit the nail on the head when you said the EU want us out now, no time will be given for any remain scenario to play out.

[BillyStubbsTears]

The EU AND the U.K. have a moral responsibility to 500million people to get this over and done quickly. Whilst we don't, the uncertainty will badly hurt our economy and that of the EU.

We've opened the casket now. We can't sit contemplating the f**king thing whilst we decide what to do. It's time to get on with it.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I wonder if Nige or Boris made any promises about this one?

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/politics/guarantees-wanted-over-the-future-of-european-millions-1-7982120

Turkeys and f**king Christmas.

[darren61]

I agree 100% BST  We should get on with it and minimise any damage to us or the EU.

[Lipsy]

Same thing with Wales and Cornwall, who appear to have suddenly woken up to the fact that they have f**ked themselves. There are some very, very troubling times ahead.

[Glyn_Wigley]

I wonder if Nige or Boris made any promises about this one?

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/politics/guarantees-wanted-over-the-future-of-european-millions-1-7982120

Turkeys and f**king Christmas.

Who needs guarantees of money when we have meaningless platitudes like 'northern powerhouse' to make it look like something is being done when it isn't..?

[Padge_DRFC]

Long term this will be the best decision the country has made.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Oh aye? Who says?

[Dagenham Rover]

who says its the best decision to stay in

[BillyStubbsTears]

Oh no-one important. Just 90% of economists.

But f**k them. We're now living in an age where the politicians in charge say you shouldn't trust experts. So f**k knows.

Let's hope we don't go to war in the near future. Wouldn't want folk trusting them generals. And be careful about crossing bridges. Experts designed them.

Welcome to Brexit-land. Truth is an ephemeral concept, but your gut prejudices are always right.

[Lipsy]

Next time I get ill, I'm going to wet my finger and see which way the wind blows. We dunt need no clevver peeple.