Another result of the vote

[Glyn_Wigley]

Yeah, if they can cheat to gain an advantage without the ref seeing it, that's what football politics is all about isn't it?

Precisely.

It's all about results.

I hope Parliament ignore the Referendum then. That'd be a result.

They'd have to be very brave/daring/stupid to do that.

Your only hope is that a General Election gets called soon and a candidate promises a second 'Referendum on EU membership' in his/her manifesto.

Then again, politicians tell lies, etc, so would you believe it?

But if they did do that, I'm presuming you'd be happy with it as 'it's all about results'.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Yeah, if they can cheat to gain an advantage without the ref seeing it, that's what football politics is all about isn't it?

nice little league table here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index

It is a nice little subjective league table. F**k knows why you've posted it in this thread though.

[Not Now Kato]

I doubt the petition will have any effect but what's going to be done about the unsubstantiated claims that are now being backtracked?

The £350 million is often used as an example because that campaign bus kind of gives the game away - no one can claim this wasn't an argument the leave campaign didn't make!

Politicians in 'bending the truth' shocker.

That said, I'm sure our NHS will be better off following the vote in any case.

And you believe that?  Really?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Course it will Gove, Johnson and IDSwill pour money into the NHS. They believe in it wholeheartedly.

Give me strength. Rigo writes some WUM shite, but that one takes the packet of Hobnobs.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Yeah, if they can cheat to gain an advantage without the ref seeing it, that's what football politics is all about isn't it?

Precisely.

It's all about results.

I hope Parliament ignore the Referendum then. That'd be a result.

They'd have to be very brave/daring/stupid to do that.

Your only hope is that a General Election gets called soon and a candidate promises a second 'Referendum on EU membership' in his/her manifesto.

Then again, politicians tell lies, etc, so would you believe it?

But if they did do that, I'm presuming you'd be happy with it as 'it's all about results'.

It's a ploy which could happen - you win some, you lose some.

At present, there's been one result which has produced something for the government to take note of.

Thing is, Parliament isn't the Government. And Parliament might just decide not to vote for the repeal of the Communities Act...

[Jonathan]

The NHS has been failing for years and getting progressively worse in numerous areas.

Something has to change - the EU referendum result is something which could trigger that change.

How? You state you are sure it'll improve, so how and why?

I don't think anyone is sure of anything that'll happen as a result of the referendum.

I work in the public sector, the only thing I am sure of is that, on the back of the result, we are forecasting further shrinking funding and are on notice that talks are underway regarding the prospect of compulsory redundancies. That doesn't mean that'll definitely happen, but is an example of the uncertainty that we face and a personal reason why I feel I can be forgiven for not necessarily sharing the joy that we're supposedly free again and have our country back.

In any case, if in the immediate aftermath of the result the key protagonists instantly distanced themselves from the promise of additional funding for the NHS (something we all know was a false promise anyway) and public service organisations are preparing for a contraction in funding streams, why are you, as a budding sports journalist, sure that the NHS will now improve?

[Copps is Magic]

Looking forward to Rigo's sector by sector analysis of the NHS and examination of how relinquishing membership of the European Union links to its reform. I'm sure he's penning it now.

[IDM]

I doubt the petition will have any effect but what's going to be done about the unsubstantiated claims that are now being backtracked?

The £350 million is often used as an example because that campaign bus kind of gives the game away - no one can claim this wasn't an argument the leave campaign didn't make!

Politicians in 'bending the truth' shocker.

That said, I'm sure our NHS will be better off following the vote in any case.

It's not about whether the NHS gets extra money or not - it's more about the backtracking since the referendum, compared to the claims made beforehand - which may have influenced the voting.

That's the issue here..

Shock - politicians do a degree of back-tracking after getting the result they wanted.

Welcome to politics- the remain camp are just as bad, you know.

I'm 47, I know that!!

but when politicians lie before an general election, there is a chance to vote them out again later on. 

With this referendum we got one shot.  So do you not think that for once and for all the campaign should be honest?

I'm not being naive her either.  So lets assume BJ becomes prime minister, and subsequently makes a total pigs ear of leaving the EU then he can be voted out, but that won't put right the wrongs will it??

Even so, leaving the EU MAY transpire to be OK in the long run, but the whole referendum thing stinks rotten...

[IDM]

Would you be complaining, however, if the vote had gone the other way?

And for those people banging on, lay one piece of hard evidence which proves the NHS will be worse off when this country is actually out of the European Union?

How about you just answer my question, a simple yes or no would suffice.

If leave had won under false pretences that wrongly influenced voters (IMHO) than yes I would readily express my opinion on that too.

[Jonathan]

Would you be complaining, however, if the vote had gone the other way?

And for those people banging on, lay one piece of hard evidence which proves the NHS will be worse off when this country is actually out of the European Union?

You said you're sure it'll be better, so just tell us why. It can't be that tough when you're sure. Must be some hard evidence?

[Glyn_Wigley]

He won't answer you, he never does answer when he's cornered, he tries to change the subject or ask a question himself rather than simply explain his drivel.

[IDM]

Would you be complaining, however, if the vote had gone the other way?

And for those people banging on, lay one piece of hard evidence which proves the NHS will be worse off when this country is actually out of the European Union?

You said you're sure it'll be better, so just tell us why. It can't be that tough when you're sure. Must be some hard evidence?

Produce the hard evidence that the NHS will be better off with this country in the European Union?

Was there a big red "remain" campaign bus claiming this in big letters???

The NHS may or may not be better in or out of the EU.  The clear thing is, the leave campaign implied something that they are now backtracking about didn't they??

[Jonathan]

Would you be complaining, however, if the vote had gone the other way?

And for those people banging on, lay one piece of hard evidence which proves the NHS will be worse off when this country is actually out of the European Union?

You said you're sure it'll be better, so just tell us why. It can't be that tough when you're sure. Must be some hard evidence?

Produce the hard evidence that the NHS will be better off with this country in the European Union?

Are you thick? At absolutely no stage have I suggested that it will be. My opinion all along has been that the NHS was dragged into the referendum by leave campaigners in an effort to provide a spurious but moral justification that masks the overriding aim - to tap into fears over immigration. I believe the NHS is largely at the mercy of the economy and the ideological agenda of the ruling party. Right now I don't hold out great hope in either.

Just answer the question as to why you are sure it'll be better, or admit that you're not.

[Glyn_Wigley]

I told you!

[Not Now Kato]

The NHS has been failing for years and getting progressively worse in numerous areas.

Something has to change - the EU referendum result is something which could trigger that change.

You do talk a lot of garbage at time lad, but this time I actually agree with you....
 
The EU referendum result could indeed trigger a change to the NHS- The move to privatisation of the health service with all of the implications that brings to the working people who voted for it.

[no eyed deer]

The way the remain campaign s

Would you be complaining, however, if the vote had gone the other way?

And for those people banging on, lay one piece of hard evidence which proves the NHS will be worse off when this country is actually out of the European Union?

You said you're sure it'll be better, so just tell us why. It can't be that tough when you're sure. Must be some hard evidence?

Produce the hard evidence that the NHS will be better off with this country in the European Union?

Was there a big red "remain" campaign bus claiming this in big letters???

The NHS may or may not be better in or out of the EU.  The clear thing is, the leave campaign implied something that they are now backtracking about didn't they??

And what percent voted to leave because of the big red bus.
Probably the same that voted remain because the were fearful of a brexit budget

[IDM]

That's not the point - the point is the electorate were lied to.  The result may or may not have been different if the campaigning was honest, from both sides..

[no eyed deer]

That's not the point - the point is the electorate were lied to.  The result may or may not have been different if the campaigning was honest, from both sides..

IDM I agree 100% both sides should hold their heads in shame.

[Lipsy]

Those bas**rds from 'Project Fear' doing all that scaremongering. Oh, wait... Presumably, this is the nasty bit before all the free ice creams, rainbows, and unicorns, yes?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36644934

[bpoolrover]

That's not the point - the point is the electorate were lied to.  The result may or may not have been different if the campaigning was honest, from both sides..

agree Idm no good blaming leave campaign as lying they both did it,not that it will ever happen it should become illegal to lie in parliament that way people could decide with truth

[BobG]

It already is illegal BPool. There's been several MP's in the recent past who have had to stand up in front of the whole House to apologise for their economy with the truth. They could all be barred from the House if the House felt that way inclined.

BobG

[Donnywolf]

That's not the point - the point is the electorate were lied to.  The result may or may not have been different if the campaigning was honest, from both sides..

agree Idm no good blaming leave campaign as lying they both did it,not that it will ever happen it should become illegal to lie in parliament that way people could decide with truth

Only snag with your (good) idea is that people are already so disengaged with Politics (cant think why) that they see nothing of Parliament and its procedures at all.

They do however - indeed cant fail - see be exposed to (for example) the Leave Battlebus with its erroneous £350 Million going to the EU - Lets take our Country back and give that money to the NHS instead AND all the mentions on TV in Newspapers and Social Media of any topic the Government or Opposition want to put their way.

On the EU Referendum for example we had Cameron saying once the people have Voted if its a vote to "Leave" I will the very next day invoke the Article 50 to set the ball rolling . Not what happened but we all saw it / heard it

Osborne (Weasel) said if the Vote is Leave we will need an urgent and immediate Emergency Budget to help stabilise the economy. Oh yes we all saw that and heard that too - yet we have not had one yet and indeed as he has probably been offered a job by Boris and Gove or stands for PM himself that has been shelved too.

That's how we are exposed to the outright lies / innuendos / and grey areas.

[Glyn_Wigley]

To be fair to Osborne (and it sticks in my throat to say it!) I always took the Brexit budget he talked about as being needed when the exit process is under way. I further get the impression that he would have been surprised as everybody else when Cameron suddenly announced he wasn't going to invoke Article 50 straight away, which I take it would have been the trigger for an amended budget...

[BillyStubbsTears]

The revised Budget WILL be needed. There is no question that the outlook for public finances will be hit very hard by the prospect of Brexit. There is not a single economist who is predicting anything other than a very marked economic slowdown over the next 18 months at the very minimum. The OBR, which crunches the numbers that the Budget will be based on, uses similar models to the ones that external economists use, and generally gets answers more or less in the middle of the range of external predictions.

The next Budget will be delivered in a scenario where we are projected to be SIGNIFICANTLY poorer over the rest of the decade than we thought we were going to be last week. Very tough decisions will have to be made. Higher taxes, lower spending or higher borrowing. There's no getting away from some combination of those three things.

The Budget is being delayed for three reasons, one technical, one a reasonable political one, the other a bit of political game playing.

The technical one is that it will take time to crunch the numbers. That is why it was never feasible that there would be an emergency budget straight after the vote and Osborne was stupid to say there would be.

The fair political one is that in Sept, there will be a new Chancellor. It's only fair to let him/her make the decisions.

The game playing one is that there may well be  a General Election in October and the Tories would like to delay the pain of the next Budget until after that. Boris will tell you that everything is fine and manageable. And after you've voted him back in, THAT will be the time that he'll kick you in the b*llocks.

[Glyn_Wigley]

The fair political one is that in Sept, there will be a new Chancellor. It's only fair to let him/her make the decisions.

And won't it be sweet when it's a Leaver that accused Osborne of Project Fear that has to deliver it! Boris, of course will feign that it's all come as a complete surprise to him.

[Lipsy]

I heard this earlier today. I don't have a god, but I pray that this isn't indicative of what's happening up and down the country right now. Heart-breaking.

http://www.lbc.co.uk/im-so-scared-now-german-woman-hit-by-xenophobia-calls-james-in-tears-132971

[Glyn_Wigley]

But it's alright, they're not racists!

[Lipsy]

Indeed. And I'll say that to my friend, who was told she shouldn't have had the right to vote because she clearly wasn't from 'round "here" when some twunt saw that she had a foreign-looking surname on her name badge... She's as English as they come. Her husband likewise, but he has Polish ancestry.

But no, there's no racism going on post-referendum. No sirreee - it's just 'Project Fear' whipping up something out of nothing.

I know it's a vocal minority, but I don't doubt that it's more widespread than we'd like to think/hope.

[Jonathan]

The fair political one is that in Sept, there will be a new Chancellor. It's only fair to let him/her make the decisions.

And won't it be sweet when it's a Leaver that accused Osborne of Project Fear that has to deliver it! Boris, of course will feign that it's all come as a complete surprise to him.

I get what you're saying, but for those of us that work in the public sector (and many more besides) I fear there'll be nothing sweet about it.

[Glyn_Wigley]

The fair political one is that in Sept, there will be a new Chancellor. It's only fair to let him/her make the decisions.

And won't it be sweet when it's a Leaver that accused Osborne of Project Fear that has to deliver it! Boris, of course will feign that it's all come as a complete surprise to him.

I get what you're saying, but for those of us that work in the public sector (and many more besides) I fear there'll be nothing sweet about it.

I understand, I used to be a civil servant. I know it'll be the only silver lining on that cloud.