I'm struggling...

[IDM]

There was misleading information in the remain campaign which you're choosing to overlook. I'm sure I've said that it's nigh on impossible that you'll get a perfectly 'clean' campaigns - both could have been better and done with more dignity, but they weren't.

If you've got food, water, a roof over your head, and you're alive does anything else really matter? Whether you're in England, Kenya, Poland, Turkmenistan or Brazil.

It's the basics.

Stop blaming the 17.4 million people who voted out and ask yourself why they voted out - there's a multitude of reasons and there comes a point where you either have to get on with it, let it destroy you, or end up taking it to a war.

And what good does it destroying you or creating a war do? Nothing.

er, no, I never claimed the remain side wasn't misleading.  I'm not blaming the voters, I'm blaming the campaigners.

Does anything else really matter??  Can't you read????  I think my family potentially being torn apart matters - well it does to me anyway!!!

Never mind the referendum, YOU choose to ignore questions and then tell folks to move on!

I've had enough.  f**k off.

[Sammy Chung was King]

This election, all it has done is it has brought out the small minority of racists, who look for any opportunity to show they're hatred. Every country has them!.
 It hasn't been made a big thing of the note put on the polish building, saying they support them against such people.
Out of all the country, where is all this hate it's stirred up, because i don't see it, like always it's a minority. This was a vote on the nations opinion on what they want the country to be in the future.

The vote was leave, because i suspect many saw it as a better choice, for they're kids futures. They knew there would be a dodgy period, but thought in the long run, the country will be better for it.
I believe this, just like they do. Talk to the majority of people, they don't want immigration stopped, they want it controlled, not foisted on us, massive potential numbers our system can't cope with.
Nobody can deny the system is struggling already, nhs, schools. People wanted they're kids to leave school and have a chance of a job, and a country with similar values to when they grew up.

This decision opens the world up to opportunities, to trade and improve massively, while also trading with european friends, and also going on holiday to they're resorts, working in they're countries, none of this stops.
Our security will be strengthened by it being organised by our own government, while also sharing information with our neighbours.
At the minute some see our people as short sighted 'Little Englanders', i don't see that at all, i see a bigger chance to make the country stronger!.
 The government can't blame the eu for everything any more, as they have done in the past, they will now be more accountable for decisions. The people will expect certain things, if not delivered, then they know, they could be out of a job!.

[MachoMadness]

Hasn't hate crime gone up by 500-odd percent in the last few days!? Just saying "It's a minority, it happens" isn't on at all. It shouldn't happen. It wasn't happening before.

None of what you say is supported by facts or reality whatsoever Sammy.

EDIT: When I say it wasn't happening before, what I mean is it wasn't happening anywhere near as much or as openly as it currently is.

[Jonathan]

I see the super chilled, non-aggressive Rigomeister pops up on another thread without having offered us an explanation as to why he is sure the NHS will be better off outside the European Union.

Exactly the behaviour people predicted. Make a lots of noise, churn out a load of poorly constructed and contrary nonsense, react confrontationally when prompted to elaborate and then disappear only to pop up elsewhere and repeat the sequence.

[BobG]

Rigo my friend. Have your balls dropped recently mate? I suspect they must have. It's about the only explanation I can think of for the unpleasant aggression with which you portray yourself these days. I imagine it'll calm down, eventually, but in the meantime, the generalisations you make, the evidence you ignore and the anger you radiate all suggest you've got a problem.  I'm not tryring to be sarky or to score a point Rigo. That is an honest appraisal. if you carry on like this sooner or later you will end up regretting it.

Lol! I suppose there is one other possible explanation actually. Were you fed on crab apples when you were a kid?

Cheers

BobG

[Iberian Red]

Rigo my friend. Have your balls dropped recently mate? I suspect they must have. It's about the only explanation I can think of for the unpleasant aggression with which you portray yourself these days. I imagine it'll calm down, eventually, but in the meantime, the generalisations you make, the evidence you ignore and the anger you radiate all suggest you've got a problem.  I'm not tryring to be sarky or to score a point Rigo. That is an honest appraisal. if you carry on like this sooner or later you will end up regretting it.

Lol! I suppose there is one other possible explanation actually. Were you fed on crab apples when you were a kid?

Cheers

BobG

I'm in a far better position now than I was quite a few years ago, but thanks for your in-depth analysis of someone your hardly know anything about, Bob.

You're still obviously in a bit of a dark place tho.

Since you've been posting back on here,do you know what you've brought to the table?
FA
Not even condiments,and you're eating out of your fingers.

[mushRTID]

He's just a WUM, an attention seeking one at that.

Ignore him

[Iberian Red]

More psycho-analysts.

You guys are wasted posting on a football forum of an obscure lower league football club. You could be inventors, pioneers and plenty of other things considering how much you seem to know.

On a serious note, sorry to disappoint any of you, but I'm absolutely fine - especially since I stopped letting any of you lot actually bother me, character-strengthened, and a few other bits and pieces.

Keep going though, because it's laughable.

Please,please, don't turn up at my house with a baseball bat.

[Glyn_Wigley]

More psycho-analysts.

Who needs to psycho-analyse? All it takes is the ability to read to know the quality of your contributions.

[pib]

Surely you are wasted on here too with everything you bring to the table?

[MachoMadness]

Imagine spending this much time posting online about something you don't even like.

[BillyStubbsTears]

You're a funny one Rigo. You insist that no-one here has the knowledge or the right to judge you, what you do or what you think.

Yet you pontificate (wrongly) on why I was angry in an exchange with you the other night. And now you post this.

You guys are wasted posting on a football forum of an obscure lower league football club. You could be inventors, pioneers and plenty of other things considering how much you seem to know.

How do you know that we're not?

[jonnydog]

Not taking sides on this, but haven't any of you got better things to do? It's like a crèche on here these days.

Clearly Brexit has had an affect on this forum, roll on the start of the season and decent Rovers chat/banter!!

[bpoolrover]

Both sides lied end of maybe the leave side were better at it but they both lied,why are the remain voters not angry at there side for there blatant lies?

[Sammy Chung was King]

Hasn't hate crime gone up by 500-odd percent in the last few days!? Just saying "It's a minority, it happens" isn't on at all. It shouldn't happen. It wasn't happening before.

None of what you say is supported by facts or reality whatsoever Sammy.

EDIT: When I say it wasn't happening before, what I mean is it wasn't happening anywhere near as much or as openly as it currently is.

Macho, It isn't on at all, this decision was always going to provide, total idiots with an opportunity to show how they really feel. We were all created equal in this life, but try explaining it to these men and women, who believe they are right in doing these things.
 And the sad thing is, they spawn kids, and bring them up thinking the same. Round my local area, the shop keepers as far as i am aware, nothing like that has happened, but you see a wariness about them because they are asian.

 It's really sad, as they are good people who serve the community well. I make it my way to say hello to those i don't usually talk to because i don't know them, or talk to the shop owner i talk to just as normal. Colour, nationality means nothing to me, i'm no better than these good people. In life people should be able to have opinions, whether you agree with them or not. But when it goes into physically and mentally bullying people, that is never right. When one set do it, it can lead to other weak minded people following suit.

What needs to happen, is that all communities are not happy with how they are being treated, and stand together. But people won't, because they don't want involving and getting, any trouble themselves.
 I'm glad to say, i wasn't brought up that way. My dad was a rough and ready bloke, but we would not, have not sat down for a week if we gave any trouble to anybody.

[bobbymax]

For anyone who hasn't seen this, he nails it again...

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nh0ac5HUpDU" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nh0ac5HUpDU</a>

John Oliver is superb and the researchers on that programme should get a bonus

[bahrain rover]

Mick Hucknall?

The hollies surely? 

How about "we don't have to take this crap"? I'll leave you to work out who wrote that lyric..

Style Council, Walls came tumbling down.

[IDM]

Mick Hucknall?

The hollies surely? 

How about "we don't have to take this crap"? I'll leave you to work out who wrote that lyric..

Style Council, Walls came tumbling down.

That's the Kiddie!!

[Lipsy]

Many of us said this, and I know I had plenty of arguments in the real world before and since the referendum. But here you go, welcome to the future... God bless 'murica.

“What they [Political strategists Goddard Gunster] said early on was ‘facts don’t work’ and that’s it.

“The remain campaign featured fact, fact, fact, fact, fact. It just doesn’t work. You have got to connect with people emotionally. It’s the Trump success.”

I only hope that we don't find out that they overspent and broke Electoral Commission rules... How low have we sunk?

Fill your boots: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/29/leave-donor-plans-new-party-to-replace-ukip-without-farage

[BillyStubbsTears]

Lipsy

I've only just caught that post and The Guardian article.

It chimes with this.

https://medium.com/@DuncanWeldon/britains-political-economy-is-changing-labour-needs-to-become-relevant-efd53bc2cf75#.oew35yimr

Maybe there's a BIG political re-alignment coming. Not Left and Right anymore but Globalist vs Isolationist?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Or THIS one may be even sharper.

http://stumblingandmumbling.typepad.com/stumbling_and_mumbling/2016/06/control-beyond-left-and-right.html

Maybe it's about "control" vs "free markets"?

That would make more historical sense. We had free markets before the War. We had a more controlled society from 1945 to 1980. We swung back towards free markets in everything after that.

Maybe the real re-alignment might mean going back to more tightly controlled economies and societies?

[wilts rover]

Haven't we just left the EU so that we can trade with the rest of the world in a free market?

[Glyn_Wigley]

Haven't we just left the EU so that we can trade with the rest of the world in a free market?

There is no free market with the rest of the world. We've just decided to give up the one we did have with the rest of the EU countries!

[wilts rover]

I have just had several weeks/months of people telling me something different! Unless by 'free' you only mean 'no customs duties' rather than 'the ability to trade with whoever you wish without restriction and government interference' - which is how I understood the Brexit stance?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Wilts

And the free movement of people?

[wilts rover]

Is that what defined the free market before the War Billy?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Wilts.

No. You never step in the same river twice.

[Glyn_Wigley]

I have just had several weeks/months of people telling me something different! Unless by 'free' you only mean 'no customs duties' rather than 'the ability to trade with whoever you wish without restriction and government interference' - which is how I understood the Brexit stance?

A Free Market has and always has meant Duty Free movement of goods. If you've believed Brexiters when they've said it's something different, that's your look out. You've been conned.

What 'restrictions and government interference' did you think they were talking about?

[wilts rover]

That's not what google says:

free market - an economic system in which prices are determined by unrestricted competition between privately owned businesses.

or from business directory:

Where buyers and sellers can make the deals they wish to make without any interference, except by the forces of demand and supply
an economic system where the government does not interfere in business activity in any way

www.businessdictionary.com/definition/free-market-economy.html#ixzz4DTMRwJ9N
www.businessdictionary.com/definition/free-market.html#ixzz4DTMBCXQQ

or Billy who equates it with free movement of people in post 72. He might need to clarify post 68 if he is using your definition.

The 'restrictions and government interference' I know they were talking about is the EU legislation. Your inference that I have been conned is making a big inference isn't it?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Yes, well, that soon got into angels and pin heads territory.

The thrust of the articles I posted was more about the fact that there are accretions of political ideas emerging that are contradictory from a modern left-right perspective

That there are people who want an isolationist immigration policy, but a collectivist economics (nationalisation, rent controls). And others who want a socially liberal immigrant policy allied with an economically "liberal" policy.

In one of the political squares, you'd have the vertical sides running from "open borders" at the bottom to "closed borders" at the top and the horizontal sides running from "free market" at the right to "interventionist Govt" at the left. 

Look at it in that light and the EU is middle bottom side. Interventionist in terms of setting the rules of the internal market, but free trade beyond that.

Recent Lab & Tory party policy has been a bit either side of the EU position.


UKIP is top right. Corbyn's Labour is bottom left. Many of the disaffected working class are probably top left.

Much of British business is bottom right.

If anyone has any idea where I'm going with this, feel free to help me out...