Article 50

[The Red Baron]

The Government has lost the case in the High Court. The action was brought against the Government to stop them triggering Article 50 (of the Lisbon Treaty) without a vote in Parliament.

Round 2 in the Supreme Court next month.

Interesting...

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

It's all well and good doing that, but the people of the uk voted and made the decision.

Actually parliament should vote on it and should vote to do it, the referendum has to be binding.

[IDM]

I am not sure if the parliamentary process is simply to be able to vote to trigger Article 50, which in theory the MPs should follow the votes of their constituents, ie to leave - or to debate and vote on what the UK wants to achieve after Brexit.

I suspect the latter, which I think is perfectly valid to do.  If Brexit means Brexit, we want it to work as best we can, and that means preparing and parliament agreeing.

[Lipsy]

Yup, totally agree. We're leaving the EU thanks to the vote, but I hope that it's done in a way that ensures that the people of the UK get the best outcome possible and that, for me, means that parliament should be directly involved rather than just an unelected PM and her three stooges calling the shots.

If you voted for Brexit, it's still coming; if you voted Remain, then - hopefully - this might soften some of the edges of leaving the EU. This also might be a way to reconcile the Leavers and the Remainers a little. I sure hope so.

[bobjimwilly]

Maybe now the rest of parliament, and the rest of the country, can understand what Brexit really means apart from it meaning.... Brexit... 

[Lipsy]

Exactly. Because I sure as shit didn't vote to potentially screw the country over and make the poor even poorer. I read that some people are happy with that, knew they were voting for that. I suspect most didn't or would rather minimise the turbulence whilst also respecting the wishes of Murdoch's army.

[The Red Baron]

http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/what-does-todays-high-court-ruling-on-article-50-mean-brexit

[Copps is Magic]

It's entirely right that the terms of brexit are put under scrutiny by at least someone, and if it is to be parliament then so be it.

[roversontheup]

What an absolute mess. I'm not ashamed to admit I don't understand half of what needs to be done post Article 50. The thought of TM and her selected group making all the decisions frightens me silly. Whilst in theory I prefer the idea of each step going in front of parliament for debate and approval I can't see how any progress would ever be made in the required timescales! So what's the answer! As a Remainer I have no idea. I just hope someone does!!

[Lipsy]

I have no idea how this might work, but I am slightly hopeful that we might extricate ourselves from the EU in a manner that is palatable to those on both sides of the argument. The noises coming from the harder right of the Tory party (those that seem to have been steering our departure) have scared me rigid of late.

I don't believe that everyone that voted to leave the EU voted to help Farage and co. get what they wanted. Heck, some just voted to leave just to "Stick one up to the Government" as someone told me the other day, so I was never convinced by the 'Keep 'Kippers Happy' approach.

Seems to have been a good day for democracy to me. Those that wanted our parliament to be ultimately sovereign cannot argue, and those of us who voted to remain can have some hope that our voice (which has been totally ignored post-referendum) might have some sway in what happens in the future - even if it won't overturn the result.

[glosterred]

What ever happens it just goes to show those that lost the vote have still not excepted that they have lost.

[wilts rover]

What ever happens it just goes to show those that lost the vote have still not excepted that they have lost.

Does it, please explain how 'it goes to show' that?

Me and most of the rest of the country seem to think that this is to do with who gets to decide what the future terms of our relationship with Europe are going to be. But if you know better please enlighten us.

[Copps is Magic]

What ever happens it just goes to show those that lost the vote have still not excepted that they have lost.

Never mind that, it's pretty irrelevant now. Let's talk about the winners.

The more pertinent question is - now we know the government has no idea what it is doing or how it is going to do it and that the EU is going to hold us to ransom at every single turn and deliberately make life difficult for us (politically) - now we know that, what exactly have the winners 'won' with brexit?

Beyond some mild symbolism of 'taking our country back' what, in cold hard terms, have we gained as a people, as a society? Because that is the questions this ruling allows allows to be scrutinised. If your 'well we voted and won' doesn't permit the possibility of these questions being asked then, simply put, you must be stopped.

[Lipsy]

What ever happens it just goes to show those that lost the vote have still not excepted that they have lost.

Give your head a shake.

[glosterred]

What ever happens it just goes to show those that lost the vote have still not excepted that they have lost.

Does it, please explain how 'it goes to show' that?

Me and most of the rest of the country seem to think that this is to do with who gets to decide what the future terms of our relationship with Europe are going to be. But if you know better please enlighten us.

To me and the rest of the country, what a crap statement, to you and some of the country not the rest. To me and some of the country it's those that lost trying put up blocks so we don't leave.

[glosterred]

What ever happens it just goes to show those that lost the vote have still not excepted that they have lost.

Give your head a shake.

Explain why I should be shaking my head

[IDM]

IMHO the government, and parliament, should have determined exactly what they wanted with a Brexit, if the vote to leave won.  Of course it is right to question how Brexit now happens. 

We have voted as a populace to jump into the unknown.  We don't want to jump into the unknown blindfold do we??

[Glyn_Wigley]

IMHO the government, and parliament, should have determined exactly what they wanted with a Brexit, if the vote to leave won.  Of course it is right to question how Brexit now happens. 

We have voted as a populace to jump into the unknown.  We don't want to jump into the unknown blindfold do we??

Nah, we should quit the EU immediately whilst at the same time giving Europe the middle finger. Then of course they'll fall over themselves to give the UK what it wants as a severance package because they're so desperate to be friends with us they'll forget about looking after their own interests completely. 

Or was I told it wrong in June..? 

[Sprotyrover]

This will be interesting,MILLIBAND is duty bound to vote out as 69% of the electorate in his constituency voted out!
As will Winterton and Flint.

[glosterred]

This will be interesting,MILLIBAND is duty bound to vote out as 69% of the electorate in his constituency voted out!
As will Winterton and Flint.

They should be de-selected if they don't

[The Red Baron]

This will be interesting,MILLIBAND is duty bound to vote out as 69% of the electorate in his constituency voted out!
As will Winterton and Flint.

I wouldn't put money on it.

[Lipsy]

What ever happens it just goes to show those that lost the vote have still not excepted that they have lost.

Give your head a shake.

Explain why I should be shaking my head

Because if you listen very, very carefully you might hear your brain rolling about.

[Glyn_Wigley]

This will be interesting,MILLIBAND is duty bound to vote out as 69% of the electorate in his constituency voted out!
As will Winterton and Flint.

No MP is duty-bound to do anything of the sort. They were elected to use their own judgement. If they then do something their constituents don't like they have the opportunity to vote them out. That's how 'representative democracy' works.

Also, MPs owe more allegiance to the Whip of the party they stood to represent.

[Copps is Magic]

This will be interesting,MILLIBAND is duty bound to vote out as 69% of the electorate in his constituency voted out!
As will Winterton and Flint.

Does he?

I think you can flush these simplistic notions about democracy down the shitter. People will say we live in a parliamentary democracy, and people will say democracy is about the highest number of votes. That little tete-a-tete will be rumbling for months. What we know is that MPs don't necessarily have to represent the views of the majority of their constituents.

As it stands, 17.4m people have voted for a primeminster not elected to the position and her party, who won power through the votes of a vast minority of the british public (mainly residing in the countryside, small villages and hamlets) to enter into the most important period of negotiation in the country's history. And she's sending Boris in as the cultural attaché.

It's all about ideals democracy int it, and values. When you actually try to pin down what it is you're chasing shadows, it's like the f**king wind. My ideal is that we should come to a properly reasoned decision about what is right for the people of this country.

[Glyn_Wigley]

This will be interesting,MILLIBAND is duty bound to vote out as 69% of the electorate in his constituency voted out!
As will Winterton and Flint.

They should be de-selected if they don't

De-selection is a party matter.

[glosterred]

What ever happens it just goes to show those that lost the vote have still not excepted that they have lost.

Give your head a shake.

Explain why I should be shaking my head

Because if you listen very, very carefully you might hear your brain rolling about.

Oh, so nothing but an insult and in no way helps along the debate. Thanks for your input

[The Red Baron]

I voted Leave but expected Remain to win, albeit not by much.

When I found out that the result was a narrow Leave I texted two words to a friend - "Hotel California." Basically we'd checked out but we wouldn't leave.

If today's ruling holds up in the SC, I'll be wishing I'd backed my instincts in hard cash.

[Lipsy]

I'm sorry GR - I was on my mobile and I couldn't add an 'I'm only joking' smiley/emoji on the end of my comment.

Thing is, you appear to have totally missed the point of what's happened today and why it's important. As I think has been clear from what (at least to me) has been a fairly joined-up, grown-up conversation on here about the ruling today, it's got NOTHING to do with stopping the country from coming out of the EU. NOTHING AT ALL. IT IS GOING TO HAPPEN. So the 'sore losers' nonsense that some people are spouting *cough* is completely off the mark.

[The Red Baron]

I'm sorry GR - I was on my mobile and I couldn't add an 'I'm only joking' smiley/emoji on the end of my comment.

Thing is, you appear to have totally missed the point of what's happened today and why it's important. As I think has been clear from what (at least to me) has been a fairly joined-up, grown-up conversation on here about the ruling today, it's got NOTHING to do with stopping the country from coming out of the EU. NOTHING AT ALL. IT IS GOING TO HAPPEN. So the 'sore losers' nonsense that some people are spouting *cough* is completely off the mark.

Not so sure I agree Lipsy. It's pretty obvious to me that there are quite a number of politicians who are determined that Brexit won't happen.

They are reluctant to say so, or at least they have been until today, and again until today they have lacked a means to stop Brexit.

I think they will be reluctant to vote against the triggering of Article 50 outright, but they will attempt to delay it until they think public opinion has swung in their direction. At that point you will start to hear demands for either a second referendum or a General Election in which the main issue is Our relationship with the EU.

Time will tell, as they say...

[DaveDRFC]

I personally think if they held the referendum again tomorrow the result would be about 60:40 to remain. Too many people voted for the wrong reasons last time and had no idea what would happen, surely anybody with an ounce of intelligence can now see Boris and Farage were talking complete b*llocks. The exchange rate alone should be enough to tell people the mess we are in.