Article 50

[Lipsy]

Filo - I wouldn't be too quick to jump on the anti-intellectualism bandwagon. 1. Article 50 hasn't been triggered yet, so we have yet to see the true impact of that (and those predictions were based on the presumption Cameron would trigger it immediately). 2. The "my investments are doing great" argument kind of supports my "the rich will get richer" argument, don't you think? I am not saying you're rich, but those with investments have benefitted - and they probably will continue to do so. 3. As has already been mentioned, costs have risen and more are promised. 4. With benefits frozen, inflation on the up and more besides, do you really think everything's rosy? Or are you very much in this "I'm alright, Jack" camp?

[IDM]

But you are paying a lot more for petrol/diesel since the £ dropped dramatically against the $ after the referendum?

Loads of factors effect investments, but that is not my concern.

Are my relatives going to be deported, or not?????

The sensible thing IDM would be to allow all EU nationals currently working/legally living here to stay. UK nationals having the same right to stay and or work in the EU.

You would hope so, that's one of the commitments I had hoped to see before the vote..

[idler]

Unfortunately common sense has been sadly lacking over the last few years.

[Filo]

Filo - I wouldn't be too quick to jump on the anti-intellectualism bandwagon. 1. Article 50 hasn't been triggered yet, so we have yet to see the true impact of that (and those predictions were based on the presumption Cameron would trigger it immediately). 2. The "my investments are doing great" argument kind of supports my "the rich will get richer" argument, don't you think? I am not saying you're rich, but those with investments have benefitted - and they probably will continue to do so. 3. As has already been mentioned, costs have risen and more are promised. 4. With benefits frozen, inflation on the up and more besides, do you really think everything's rosy? Or are you very much in this "I'm alright, Jack" camp?

No I'm not in the I'm alright camp, I don't know what will happen, just like the experts on both sides, but you've hit the nail on the head regarding presumtions, are n't all the forcasts just that, presumtions?

[Dagenham Rover]

Filo - I wouldn't be too quick to jump on the anti-intellectualism bandwagon. 1. Article 50 hasn't been triggered yet, so we have yet to see the true impact of that (and those predictions were based on the presumption Cameron would trigger it immediately). 2. The "my investments are doing great" argument kind of supports my "the rich will get richer" argument, don't you think? I am not saying you're rich, but those with investments have benefitted - and they probably will continue to do so. 3. As has already been mentioned, costs have risen and more are promised. 4. With benefits frozen, inflation on the up and more besides, do you really think everything's rosy? Or are you very much in this "I'm alright, Jack" camp?

No I'm not in the I'm alright camp, I don't know what will happen, just like the experts on both sides, but you've hit the nail on the head regarding presumtions, are n't all the forcasts just that, presumtions?

Exactly

[Glyn_Wigley]

Apart from - as I have already said in this thread - Customs barriers and bureaucracy being reintroduced for all movements to and from the EU if we leave the Single Market. That's not a presumption, that's a fact.

[Bentley Bullet]

Being one of the mere mortals who also doesn't know what will happen, has this presumption got any credibility? ...........

https://tinyurl.com/j4yrsjl

[wilts rover]

well its what nigel farage was arguing so if you think he is credible...

[Glyn_Wigley]

Being one of the mere mortals who also doesn't know what will happen, has this presumption got any credibility? ...........

https://tinyurl.com/j4yrsjl

Yes. The UK currently only has Free Movement (no Customs Barriers and bureaucracy) within the Single Market with other members of the Single Market. When we leave the Single Market we give up Free Movement.

A Customs Union (should we still have some form of one with the EU after we leave it) does not embrace Free Movement. It only embraces some form of Free Trade - which is not the same thing as Free Movement. Customs barriers will be re-introduced as even when there is no Customs Duty, declarations will still have to be made to prove entitlement to Duty-free movement.

Just to give an illustration - the UK doesn't even have Free Movement with the Isle Of Man or the Channel Islands. If you move goods from the UK to or from either of these territories you have to make a C88 Customs Declaration and undergo Customs clearance procedures, including any physical examination of the consignment that Customs wants to make.  That situation is what we revert to with the EU once we leave the Single Market; the exact same rules, regulations and paperwork as when we trade with the whole of rest of the world.

[Lipsy]

Filo - I wouldn't be too quick to jump on the anti-intellectualism bandwagon. 1. Article 50 hasn't been triggered yet, so we have yet to see the true impact of that (and those predictions were based on the presumption Cameron would trigger it immediately). 2. The "my investments are doing great" argument kind of supports my "the rich will get richer" argument, don't you think? I am not saying you're rich, but those with investments have benefitted - and they probably will continue to do so. 3. As has already been mentioned, costs have risen and more are promised. 4. With benefits frozen, inflation on the up and more besides, do you really think everything's rosy? Or are you very much in this "I'm alright, Jack" camp?

No I'm not in the I'm alright camp, I don't know what will happen, just like the experts on both sides, but you've hit the nail on the head regarding presumtions, are n't all the forcasts just that, presumtions?

Unfortunately, there's already been plenty of bad things that have happened that point to a not entirely bright future. Maybe people have forgotten the 60+ billions of pounds' worth of quantitive easing we pumped into the economy to try to stabilise it after the vote (countless more being chucked in afterwards, but I've lost track of it all). Maybe folks aren't worried about the *additional* £122b the Govt. says it needs to borrow through to 2020 (or £244m extra per week I seem to remember Hammond saying), announced in the Autumn Statement/budget - all confirmed by our Govt. as being in response to the vote. We can speculate all we like, sure, but that's an economic headache in the making, no?

Maybe people haven't noticed that their shopping has got more expensive or that products they're buying have got smaller. I know I have... Jesus, I bought a tub of ice cream earlier and it had magically dropped in size from 2ltrs to 1.8 - and it's happening a lot: coffee, chocolate, etc etc. Smart arses will argue that it's greedy buggers taking the p. It matters not because my/our money ain't buying as much as it used to. Same with lots and lots of other things (phones, computers, software, goods - the lot) - all increasing in cost. But I'm sure that we're all happy to be paying more for less, no?

And this is all before Article 50 is triggered and before we leave the EU. I believe Private Eye said something along the lines of the shit hasn't hit the fan because we haven't turned it on yet. Regardless of the way you voted (and, no, I am not someone wanting another vote or anything daft like that), we should all be united in our concern for what lies ahead. Or we could just hope that it'll magically work itself out...

[idler]

It reminds me of decimalisation in 1971.
We were well shafted then.

[Dagenham Rover]

Filo - I wouldn't be too quick to jump on the anti-intellectualism bandwagon. 1. Article 50 hasn't been triggered yet, so we have yet to see the true impact of that (and those predictions were based on the presumption Cameron would trigger it immediately). 2. The "my investments are doing great" argument kind of supports my "the rich will get richer" argument, don't you think? I am not saying you're rich, but those with investments have benefitted - and they probably will continue to do so. 3. As has already been mentioned, costs have risen and more are promised. 4. With benefits frozen, inflation on the up and more besides, do you really think everything's rosy? Or are you very much in this "I'm alright, Jack" camp?

No I'm not in the I'm alright camp, I don't know what will happen, just like the experts on both sides, but you've hit the nail on the head regarding presumtions, are n't all the forcasts just that, presumtions?

Unfortunately, there's already been plenty of bad things that have happened that point to a not entirely bright future. Maybe people have forgotten the 60+ billions of pounds' worth of quantitive easing we pumped into the economy to try to stabilise it after the vote (countless more being chucked in afterwards, but I've lost track of it all). Maybe folks aren't worried about the *additional* £122b the Govt. says it needs to borrow through to 2020 (or £244m extra per week I seem to remember Hammond saying), announced in the Autumn Statement/budget - all confirmed by our Govt. as being in response to the vote. We can speculate all we like, sure, but that's an economic headache in the making, no?

Maybe people haven't noticed that their shopping has got more expensive or that products they're buying have got smaller. I know I have... Jesus, I bought a tub of ice cream earlier and it had magically dropped in size from 2ltrs to 1.8 - and it's happening a lot: coffee, chocolate, etc etc. Smart arses will argue that it's greedy buggers taking the p. It matters not because my/our money ain't buying as much as it used to. Same with lots and lots of other things (phones, computers, software, goods - the lot) - all increasing in cost. But I'm sure that we're all happy to be paying more for less, no?

And this is all before Article 50 is triggered and before we leave the EU. I believe Private Eye said something along the lines of the shit hasn't hit the fan because we haven't turned it on yet. Regardless of the way you voted (and, no, I am not someone wanting another vote or anything daft like that), we should all be united in our concern for what lies ahead. Or we could just hope that it'll magically work itself out...

Thats been happening for quite a few years well prior to anything to do with Brexit

[Bentley Bullet]

"Jesus, I bought a tub of ice cream earlier and it had magically dropped in size from 2ltrs to 1.8"

That 10% reduction was made in 2008!

[Lipsy]

Quality - we side-step the billions of quantitative easing and billions of additional borrowing that are the result of the Brexit vote to point out that I made a boo-boo about ice cream. Okay, I got that wrong... I always thought it was 2ltrs, the robbing bas**rds. I did joke to my Leave-voting Bro-in-law that it was Brexit that had shrunk my chuffing ice cream (but I blame Brexit on just about everything - especially things that aren't and couldn't possibly be to do with the vote).

We all know that some things have got more expensive, smaller, or are going to get more expensive because of the vote - it's been well documented everywhere. And there's more to come - whether it's actually because of the vote/sterling or companies taking advantage of the situation. The main point of what I was trying to say is that we're storing up problems that are going to bite us on the arse - and that's before we create yet more uncertainty. The poor will get poorer and the rich will get richer, and it'll take something seismic to change that. Saying "I'm alright" or "Things got more expensive before the vote" is just bloody-mindedness.

[Metalmicky]

Prices also go up because of inflation - in general prices have been going up across the board since the last period of deflation in the 1920-30's........ just saying like

[Glyn_Wigley]

Prices also go up because of inflation - in general prices have been going up across the board since the last period of deflation in the 1920-30's........ just saying like

And what is the cause of that inflation..? Why has diesel gone up in price by about 20% in six months when the inflation rate is about 1%pa?

[Dagenham Rover]

Prices also go up because of inflation - in general prices have been going up across the board since the last period of deflation in the 1920-30's........ just saying like

And what is the cause of that inflation..? Why has diesel gone up in price by about 20% in six months when the inflation rate is about 1%pa?

Diesels back at the same price as it was in 2015 as was pointed out previously and is largely dependent on our Arab friends

[Glyn_Wigley]

Prices also go up because of inflation - in general prices have been going up across the board since the last period of deflation in the 1920-30's........ just saying like

And what is the cause of that inflation..? Why has diesel gone up in price by about 20% in six months when the inflation rate is about 1%pa?

Diesels back at the same price as it was in 2015 as was pointed out previously and is largely dependent on our Arab friends

Our Arab friends deal in US$. That's why the price has gone up for us...but nobody else.