Election Manifestos and Policies

[drfchound]

The Labour Party was never the Whigs.

The Labour and Liberal parties evolved from the Whigs.
The Conservatives evolved from the Tory party.

[Glyn_Wigley]

The Labour Party was never the Whigs.

The Labour and Liberal parties evolved from the Whigs.
The Conservatives evolved from the Tory party.

The Labour Party had no relation to the Whigs at all. It was formed from the trade union movement and various socialist groups.

[wilts rover]

The Labour Party was never the Whigs.

The Labour and Liberal parties evolved from the Whigs.
The Conservatives evolved from the Tory party.

Ah that's interesting, do tell us more....

You can start with the English Civil War and how the Whigs were successors to the roundheads and supported parliamentary supremacy, non-conformity and the merchant classes, whilst the Tories were the royalists, supported the king (initially the Stuart line) and his supremacy, rotten boroughs, the Church of England and the interests of the landed gentry.

There is also something about the Corn Laws and the Reform Acts which split the Tories - one group of which became the Conservative Party.

Then something about the Independent Labour Party, some bloke called Keir Hardie and the 1900 Labour Representation Conference - in which a bloke from Doncaster played a very important part.

[wilts rover]

WiltsRover, the 20/30 year error was a typo,unchecked due to dashing from work and not checking before posting.
Had you not spotted it though perhaps lots of people would have read and accepted it, further emphasising my point that written stats can be put out there to prove a point.

However, during those years the Labour Party was involved in Coalition governments for some eleven years of which Ramsay McDonald was in the driving seat for four of them.
Labour were in sole charge for around three years and the rest of that time had a Conservative PM.

In fact, during the time I was originally posting about, that 1918 to 1939 (21 years) the Conservatives were only in power for 11years, not 15.

If you read my post again you will see that I didn't say that the ND has stayed the same since 2010.
I said it has stayed roughly the same and currently is roughly where it was around 1970.
That is currently at about half of what it was in 1950 when Labour were in power.

From 1951 to 1974 the Conservatives were in power with the exception of a six year spell and the ND fell to approximately its current level.

Going back over your graph to 1721 to 1914 the Labour Party (The Whigs in those days) were in power for about 67 years against the Conservatives (The Tory party in those days) for 82 years.
Not really far off the same over that 193 year period.
The other years during that time were split between the Liberal and Coalitions in the main.

The highest that the ND figure has ever been was around the 1825-35 period.
The last Whig PM left office in 1852 and there wasn't another Whig/Labour government until 1924.
During those 72 years the ND fell consistently to its pre WW1 low.

They are not my graphs - they are all taken from that site I linked too - along with a lot more information you need to read.

You said Labour and the Tories were in power for equal periods between the wars. They weren't.

You have said twice, the ND is roughly the same now as in 2010. It isn't it has nearly doubled! What dont you believe about those graphs? Yes it may be roughly the same now as when Labour came to power in 1970 - under whom it went down. Under the Coalition and now the Tories - it has gone up. Even as they have run an austerity campaign to lower it.

Who won the elections of 1906 and 1910 btw?

[Glyn_Wigley]

Erm...Labour didn't come to power in 1970, they lost power!

[RedJ]

Just a small point, the Whigs became the old Liberal Party, not Labour.

[drfchound]

Erm...Labour didn't come to power in 1970, they lost power!

Errrm, where did i say labour came to power in 1970 ??

As you bring it up though, they were actually in power in that year, well until 19th of June when they lost the General Election.

[drfchound]

WiltsRover, as i was saying, you can post figures to suit your cause.

You say that between the Wars Labour were only in power for three years.
Well i guess that is based on the fact that you don't want to consider the spell from 29-35 when McDonald was PM as the head of the Labour Party.
As you will know, Labour had power in 1924 then won again in 29.
McDonald was Pm until 1935.
So that is 7 years in which they had power not 3 as you suggested.

Before you say anything about part of that time being a Labour lead Coalition you should consider that Cameron was the head of a Conservative lead Coalition so if you are not counting the 31-35 part of McDonalds reign as being Labour in power you cant then consider the Conservative-LibDem Coalition time as being wholey Conservatives in power.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Erm...Labour didn't come to power in 1970, they lost power!

Errrm, where did i say labour came to power in 1970 ??

As you bring it up though, they were actually in power in that year, well until 19th of June when they lost the General Election.

You didn't wilts did, in the post immediately before I wrote that.

btw, are you still maintaining that the Labour Party grew out of the Whigs? Even though the Whig Party pretty much disappeared in 1868 and the Labour Party wasn't formed until 1906..?

[wilts rover]

Yes my bad, I was replying back to hounds earlier piece and meant to say the 70's.

[wilts rover]

WiltsRover, as i was saying, you can post figures to suit your cause.

You say that between the Wars Labour were only in power for three years.
Well i guess that is based on the fact that you don't want to consider the spell from 29-35 when McDonald was PM as the head of the Labour Party.
As you will know, Labour had power in 1924 then won again in 29.
McDonald was Pm until 1935.
So that is 7 years in which they had power not 3 as you suggested.

Before you say anything about part of that time being a Labour lead Coalition you should consider that Cameron was the head of a Conservative lead Coalition so if you are not counting the 31-35 part of McDonalds reign as being Labour in power you cant then consider the Conservative-LibDem Coalition time as being wholey Conservatives in power.

Yes hound I can post figures to suit my case - because my case is based on real figures and statistics. You just come out with some waffle without any actual facts to back it up - or get them totally wrong.

Between the wars a Labour government was in power:

January 1924 to October 1924
May 1929 to October 1931

In October 1931 a National Government was formed consisting of members of all parties. The Labour Party refused to sanction this and MacDonald, Snowden and the other Labour members who joined the NG were expelled from the Labour Party and formed their own 'party' so that they could continue as MP's - the official Labour Party then continued as a separate entity in opposition to the NG. Thus Labour was not in power after October 1921 and was not involved in a coalition after October 1931.

The Conservatives were the leading power in the National Government and it was their policies that government carried out. So Labour was in power for 3 years and 2 months between the wars. The Conservatives were in power for 15 years.

[drfchound]

With Ramsey McDonald as Prime Minister, a Labour man.

[Glyn_Wigley]

With Ramsey McDonald as Prime Minister, a Labour man.

Did you miss the bit about him being expelled from Labour?

If you're going to say he was still a Labour PM even though he wasn't in the Labour Party anymore then I can say that Churchill was still a Liberal all the time he was PM..!

[drfchound]

I also read up about the National Government and on the website i was on it was listed as Labour National Government.

So, to prove your point you are counting four years of a Labour National Government with McDonald as PM as four years of Conservative rule.

[Glyn_Wigley]

I also read up about the National Government and on the website i was on it was listed as Labour National Government.

So, to prove your point you are counting four years of a Labour National Government with McDonald as PM as four years of Conservative rule.

It was neither as it was a coalition.

[drfchound]

You are really taking this to the extreme but only to suit your argument.
The 31-35 period was National Labour Government headed up by McDonald.
If you look up "National Government" on a search engine it will tell you as much, however it will also tell you that it is historically regarded as us having a National Government for the period from 31-40, covering the leaderships of McDonald, Baldwin and Chamberlain.
You posted earlier that the 31-35 period was run in the main by Conservative principles but the opposite is true.
Conservative MP's actually held minor roles in the cabinet and their policies were in the main, unrepresented.

You say that the Conservatives were in power for 15 years between 1918 and 1939.
Which 15 years are you including?
From the list below, even including the National Government years i can still only get to eleven years.


On the list of British Prime Ministers that i read it clearly says the following:
Lloyd George 1916-22 Liberal Coalition
Bonar Law 1922 Conservative
Baldwin 1923 Conservative
McDonald 1924 Labour
Baldwin 1924-29 Conservative
McDonald 1929-31 Labour
McDonald 1931-35 National Labour (National Government)
Baldwin 1935-37 Conservative (National Government)
Chamberlain 1937-40 Conservative (National Government)

The National Governments were formed at the intervention of King George The Fifth, unlike the previous and since Coalitions which came about through agreements between political parties.

[Glyn_Wigley]

You are really taking this to the extreme but only to suit your argument.
The 31-35 period was National Labour Government headed up by McDonald.
If you look up "National Government" on a search engine it will tell you as much, however it will also tell you that it is historically regarded as us having a National Government for the period from 31-40, covering the leaderships of McDonald, Baldwin and Chamberlain.
You posted earlier that the 31-35 period was run in the main by Conservative principles but the opposite is true.
Conservative MP's actually held minor roles in the cabinet and their policies were in the main, unrepresented.

You say that the Conservatives were in power for 15 years between 1918 and 1939.
Which 15 years are you including?
From the list below, even including the National Government years i can still only get to eleven years.


On the list of British Prime Ministers that i read it clearly says the following:
Lloyd George 1916-22 Liberal Coalition
Bonar Law 1922 Conservative
Baldwin 1923 Conservative
McDonald 1924 Labour
Baldwin 1924-29 Conservative
McDonald 1929-31 Labour
McDonald 1931-35 National Labour (National Government)
Baldwin 1935-37 Conservative (National Government)
Chamberlain 1937-40 Conservative (National Government)

The National Governments were formed at the intervention of King George The Fifth, unlike the previous and since Coalitions which came about through agreements between political parties.

Who is this directed at? Because you keep saying "You say" when I've done no such thing.

[drfchound]

Glyn, you on the so called Coalition thing and WiltsRovers on the 15 years of Conservative rule thing.

[wilts rover]

What do you not understand about being expelled from the Labour Party means you are not a member of the Labour Party - whatever you call yourself! Here is some reading for you:

James Ramsay MacDonald became Britain’s first Labour Party Prime Minister for a few months in 1924. A committed socialist and pacifist, he returned to 10 Downing Street in June 1929, but the country was overwhelmed by the Great Depression and in August 1931, after protracted discussions with the other party leaders and at the urging of King George V, MacDonald formed a national government of leading Labour, Conservative and Liberal politicians.

Most of the Labour Party was horrified and, for putting the national interest before party interest, MacDonald was denounced as a traitor to his class and expelled. The public thought differently and a general election in October gave the government its ‘doctor’s mandate’ with an unprecedentedly massive majority. It was dominated by the Conservatives, whose leaders Stanley Baldwin and Neville Chamberlain effectively took control of domestic policy. MacDonald concentrated on foreign affairs and the League of Nations.
http://www.historytoday.com/richard-cavendish/fall-ramsay-macdonald

Macdonald was the first British Labour Prime Minister, but his decision in 1931 to lead a coalition government was considered a betrayal by many in the party he had done much to create.

In 1929, MacDonald returned to power, but his government was soon faced with a worldwide economic recession, for which it was not prepared. MacDonald and other leading ministers, notably the chancellor Philip Snowden, felt they had no alternative but to cut public expenditure, including unemployment benefit. The cabinet split, and MacDonald formed a National Government with Conservative, and some Liberal, support. The subsequent general election decimated the Labour Party but left MacDonald and his tiny handful of 'National Labour' members of parliament in power - although as little more than a front for a Conservative-dominated administration.

MacDonald soldiered on as prime minister until 1935. He was, however, an increasingly forlorn and unhappy figure, treated with contempt by Conservatives and with hatred by members of the party of which he had once been the unchallenged and charismatic leader.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/historic_figures/macdonald_ramsay.shtml

The consequences were dramatic. MacDonald led a ‘National Government’ comprised of the Conservatives, some Liberals and very few Labour MPs; all members or associates of the National Government were expelled by the Labour Party.
https://thehistoryofparliament.wordpress.com/2016/09/21/labour-unrest-ramsay-macdonald-and-the-labour-party-1931/

[Glyn_Wigley]

Glyn, you on the so called Coalition thing and WiltsRovers on the 15 years of Conservative rule thing.

So what was the 2010-2015 government according to you then?

[glosterred]

There are lies, damn lies and election manifestos

[drfchound]

What do you not understand about being expelled from the Labour Party means you are not a member of the Labour Party - whatever you call yourself! Here is some reading for you:

James Ramsay MacDonald became Britain’s first Labour Party Prime Minister for a few months in 1924. A committed socialist and pacifist, he returned to 10 Downing Street in June 1929, but the country was overwhelmed by the Great Depression and in August 1931, after protracted discussions with the other party leaders and at the urging of King George V, MacDonald formed a national government of leading Labour, Conservative and Liberal politicians.

Most of the Labour Party was horrified and, for putting the national interest before party interest, MacDonald was denounced as a traitor to his class and expelled. The public thought differently and a general election in October gave the government its ‘doctor’s mandate’ with an unprecedentedly massive majority. It was dominated by the Conservatives, whose leaders Stanley Baldwin and Neville Chamberlain effectively took control of domestic policy. MacDonald concentrated on foreign affairs and the League of Nations.
http://www.historytoday.com/richard-cavendish/fall-ramsay-macdonald

Macdonald was the first British Labour Prime Minister, but his decision in 1931 to lead a coalition government was considered a betrayal by many in the party he had done much to create.

In 1929, MacDonald returned to power, but his government was soon faced with a worldwide economic recession, for which it was not prepared. MacDonald and other leading ministers, notably the chancellor Philip Snowden, felt they had no alternative but to cut public expenditure, including unemployment benefit. The cabinet split, and MacDonald formed a National Government with Conservative, and some Liberal, support. The subsequent general election decimated the Labour Party but left MacDonald and his tiny handful of 'National Labour' members of parliament in power - although as little more than a front for a Conservative-dominated administration.

MacDonald soldiered on as prime minister until 1935. He was, however, an increasingly forlorn and unhappy figure, treated with contempt by Conservatives and with hatred by members of the party of which he had once been the unchallenged and charismatic leader.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/historic_figures/macdonald_ramsay.shtml

The consequences were dramatic. MacDonald led a ‘National Government’ comprised of the Conservatives, some Liberals and very few Labour MPs; all members or associates of the National Government were expelled by the Labour Party.
https://thehistoryofparliament.wordpress.com/2016/09/21/labour-unrest-ramsay-macdonald-and-the-labour-party-1931/

Quite a different read to the one I read, which asks the question, which is the most reliable read and is the opinion of the writer of each version.
It is fine for you to believe your version if you want to.
As is true in politics, put your own spin on it and see who believes your version.

[drfchound]

Glyn, you on the so called Coalition thing and WiltsRovers on the 15 years of Conservative rule thing.

So what was the 2010-2015 government according to you then?

The 2010-2015 government WAS a Coalition.
Put together by two political parties.
The 1931 to 1940 was a National Government as directed by the then King.
Two very different things.

I answered your question so how about telling me which were the fifteen years that you keep banging on about.

[wilts rover]

What do you not understand about being expelled from the Labour Party means you are not a member of the Labour Party - whatever you call yourself! Here is some reading for you:

James Ramsay MacDonald became Britain’s first Labour Party Prime Minister for a few months in 1924. A committed socialist and pacifist, he returned to 10 Downing Street in June 1929, but the country was overwhelmed by the Great Depression and in August 1931, after protracted discussions with the other party leaders and at the urging of King George V, MacDonald formed a national government of leading Labour, Conservative and Liberal politicians.

Most of the Labour Party was horrified and, for putting the national interest before party interest, MacDonald was denounced as a traitor to his class and expelled. The public thought differently and a general election in October gave the government its ‘doctor’s mandate’ with an unprecedentedly massive majority. It was dominated by the Conservatives, whose leaders Stanley Baldwin and Neville Chamberlain effectively took control of domestic policy. MacDonald concentrated on foreign affairs and the League of Nations.
http://www.historytoday.com/richard-cavendish/fall-ramsay-macdonald

Macdonald was the first British Labour Prime Minister, but his decision in 1931 to lead a coalition government was considered a betrayal by many in the party he had done much to create.

In 1929, MacDonald returned to power, but his government was soon faced with a worldwide economic recession, for which it was not prepared. MacDonald and other leading ministers, notably the chancellor Philip Snowden, felt they had no alternative but to cut public expenditure, including unemployment benefit. The cabinet split, and MacDonald formed a National Government with Conservative, and some Liberal, support. The subsequent general election decimated the Labour Party but left MacDonald and his tiny handful of 'National Labour' members of parliament in power - although as little more than a front for a Conservative-dominated administration.

MacDonald soldiered on as prime minister until 1935. He was, however, an increasingly forlorn and unhappy figure, treated with contempt by Conservatives and with hatred by members of the party of which he had once been the unchallenged and charismatic leader.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/historic_figures/macdonald_ramsay.shtml

The consequences were dramatic. MacDonald led a ‘National Government’ comprised of the Conservatives, some Liberals and very few Labour MPs; all members or associates of the National Government were expelled by the Labour Party.
https://thehistoryofparliament.wordpress.com/2016/09/21/labour-unrest-ramsay-macdonald-and-the-labour-party-1931/

Quite a different read to the one I read, which asks the question, which is the most reliable read and is the opinion of the writer of each version.
It is fine for you to believe your version if you want to.
As is true in politics, put your own spin on it and see who believes your version.

How many times do I have to tell you It's Not My Version - its a fact. From a verifiable and academically reputable source. Or in this instance three verifiable and academically reputable sources sources:

http://www.historytoday.com/richard-cavendish/fall-ramsay-macdonald - History Today one of (if not the ) leading historical magazines in publication for over 70 years.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/historic_figures/macdonald_ramsay.shtml - the BBC, you may have heard of them

https://thehistoryofparliament.wordpress.com/2016/09/21/labour-unrest-ramsay-macdonald-and-the-labour-party-1931/ - an academic study into the the History of Parliament governed by its Trustees, who are mainly Members and Officers of both Houses of Parliament (that big fancy building in London, you may have heard of it)

I could probably find another 30 that say the same thing. I would struggle to find one that says Macdonald was still a member of the Labour Party after 1931 - because he wasn't. However if you can - please show us?

[Glyn_Wigley]

Glyn, you on the so called Coalition thing and WiltsRovers on the 15 years of Conservative rule thing.

So what was the 2010-2015 government according to you then?

The 2010-2015 government WAS a Coalition.
Put together by two political parties.
The 1931 to 1940 was a National Government as directed by the then King.
Two very different things.

I answered your question so how about telling me which were the fifteen years that you keep banging on about.

I haven't banged on about any fifteen years..?


PS A coalition is a government made up of people from two or more political parties. Giving it a name like 'National Government' doesn't change the nature of being a coalition. Nor does it change according to who created it. It's still a coalition.

[donnyproletarian]

so to summarise, Labour will:

Only increase taxes for those earning > £80k a year
Increase taxes for large corporations
Outlaw zero hours contracts
Invest £8 billion in to the NHS
Ring-fence mental health budgets
Scrap university tuition fees
Give fair notice when increase the pension age
Build 100,000 new houses a year
Bring back rail and post office to public ownership
Hire 10,000 more police officers
Scrap bedroom tax

The Tories will:

Reduce taxes for everyone, but more so the super-rich
Increase inheritance allowance
Bring back fox-hunting
Carry-on privatising NHS services
Carry-on trying to reduce the deficit (which they've increase in the last 7 years under austerity)
Cap welfare
"Deliver the best schools"

is that about right? tough choice...
 

Those Labour ones,you do realise how many of them would bite the dust under ever closer union,seems Labour are celebrating Brexit whilst saying they wouldn't commit to it if elected... Wigley dots...100.000 houses eh,how many more would be needed under unlimited mass migration that  Worzel  Gummidge favo

so to summarise, Labour will:

Only increase taxes for those earning > £80k a year
Increase taxes for large corporations
Outlaw zero hours contracts
Invest £8 billion in to the NHS
Ring-fence mental health budgets
Scrap university tuition fees
Give fair notice when increase the pension age
Build 100,000 new houses a year
Bring back rail and post office to public ownership
Hire 10,000 more police officers
Scrap bedroom tax

The Tories will:

Reduce taxes for everyone, but more so the super-rich
Increase inheritance allowance
Bring back fox-hunting
Carry-on privatising NHS services
Carry-on trying to reduce the deficit (which they've increase in the last 7 years under austerity)
Cap welfare
"Deliver the best schools"

is that about right? tough choice...
 

Labour will put our economy on a par with the 3rd world , where most are run by left wing dictators who think making money and having aspirations for your self and your family and should paid for by very high taxing forcing you to the point where think of leaving the country of your birth .
Companies will never set up base in the U.K. If the tax system will not allow them to earn , employ and expand .

Labour DO NOT want to be in government as they feel more effective as an opposition party throwing insults at those who need to make hard decisions , for Labour has not got the personal on the front line to run a government and I am a card carrying member of Labour .  Corbyn OUT!!!
[/quote)

Susan ,is that the message you are taking to the doorsteps as a card carrying member of a socialist party respecting the democratic mandate of the rank and file ?The next time you are walking through town and have to step over someone laying in a shop doorway you can console yourself that you did your very best for the individual concerned .Would you not be more comfortable in the SDP if you are so dead set against policies that reflect JCs agenda.At least they had the integrety to jump ship rather than hijack it .Talk about keep your friends close and your enemies closer .You and your like disgust me to my core 

[drfchound]

What do you not understand about being expelled from the Labour Party means you are not a member of the Labour Party - whatever you call yourself! Here is some reading for you:

James Ramsay MacDonald became Britain’s first Labour Party Prime Minister for a few months in 1924. A committed socialist and pacifist, he returned to 10 Downing Street in June 1929, but the country was overwhelmed by the Great Depression and in August 1931, after protracted discussions with the other party leaders and at the urging of King George V, MacDonald formed a national government of leading Labour, Conservative and Liberal politicians.

Most of the Labour Party was horrified and, for putting the national interest before party interest, MacDonald was denounced as a traitor to his class and expelled. The public thought differently and a general election in October gave the government its ‘doctor’s mandate’ with an unprecedentedly massive majority. It was dominated by the Conservatives, whose leaders Stanley Baldwin and Neville Chamberlain effectively took control of domestic policy. MacDonald concentrated on foreign affairs and the League of Nations.
http://www.historytoday.com/richard-cavendish/fall-ramsay-macdonald

Macdonald was the first British Labour Prime Minister, but his decision in 1931 to lead a coalition government was considered a betrayal by many in the party he had done much to create.

In 1929, MacDonald returned to power, but his government was soon faced with a worldwide economic recession, for which it was not prepared. MacDonald and other leading ministers, notably the chancellor Philip Snowden, felt they had no alternative but to cut public expenditure, including unemployment benefit. The cabinet split, and MacDonald formed a National Government with Conservative, and some Liberal, support. The subsequent general election decimated the Labour Party but left MacDonald and his tiny handful of 'National Labour' members of parliament in power - although as little more than a front for a Conservative-dominated administration.

MacDonald soldiered on as prime minister until 1935. He was, however, an increasingly forlorn and unhappy figure, treated with contempt by Conservatives and with hatred by members of the party of which he had once been the unchallenged and charismatic leader.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/historic_figures/macdonald_ramsay.shtml

The consequences were dramatic. MacDonald led a ‘National Government’ comprised of the Conservatives, some Liberals and very few Labour MPs; all members or associates of the National Government were expelled by the Labour Party.
https://thehistoryofparliament.wordpress.com/2016/09/21/labour-unrest-ramsay-macdonald-and-the-labour-party-1931/

Quite a different read to the one I read, which asks the question, which is the most reliable read and is the opinion of the writer of each version.
It is fine for you to believe your version if you want to.
As is true in politics, put your own spin on it and see who believes your version.

How many times do I have to tell you It's Not My Version - its a fact. From a verifiable and academically reputable source. Or in this instance three verifiable and academically reputable sources sources:

http://www.historytoday.com/richard-cavendish/fall-ramsay-macdonald - History Today one of (if not the ) leading historical magazines in publication for over 70 years.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/historic_figures/macdonald_ramsay.shtml - the BBC, you may have heard of them

https://thehistoryofparliament.wordpress.com/2016/09/21/labour-unrest-ramsay-macdonald-and-the-labour-party-1931/ - an academic study into the the History of Parliament governed by its Trustees, who are mainly Members and Officers of both Houses of Parliament (that big fancy building in London, you may have heard of it)

I could probably find another 30 that say the same thing. I would struggle to find one that says Macdonald was still a member of the Labour Party after 1931 - because he wasn't. However if you can - please show us?

I have never said that was still in the Labour Party.
However, as a staunch Labour man of his time, he would not have changed his values.
His then cabinet did include some Conservative members but none of them held senior posts.
I could probably find a bunch of people to support my viewpoint too.

[drfchound]

Glyn, you on the so called Coalition thing and WiltsRovers on the 15 years of Conservative rule thing.

So what was the 2010-2015 government according to you then?

The 2010-2015 government WAS a Coalition.
Put together by two political parties.
The 1931 to 1940 was a National Government as directed by the then King.
Two very different things.

I answered your question so how about telling me which were the fifteen years that you keep banging on about.

I haven't banged on about any fifteen years..?


PS A coalition is a government made up of people from two or more political parties. Giving it a name like 'National Government' doesn't change the nature of being a coalition. Nor does it change according to who created it. It's still a coalition.

The question about fifteen years should have been directed to WiltsRover.

I agree that the National Government is similar in nature to a Coalition but it isn't actually a Coalition.

[Glyn_Wigley]

I agree that the National Government is similar in nature to a Coalition but it isn't actually a Coalition.

Very first line:

"In the United Kingdom, National Government is an abstract concept referring to a coalition of some or all major political parties."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Government_(United_Kingdom)

Very first line:

"The 1931 election made a mockery of the adversarial system, returning a 550-strong coalition government of Conservatives, Liberals and Labourites."

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2005/apr/04/electionspast.past6

Very first line:

"Macdonald was the first British Labour prime minister, but his decision in 1931 to lead a coalition government was considered a betrayal by many in the party he had done much to create."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/historic_figures/macdonald_ramsay.shtml

[Glyn_Wigley]

His then cabinet did include some Conservative members but none of them held senior posts.

What about the posts held by neither Conservative nor former-Labour but by the Liberals? I wouldn't call Home Secretary or Foreign Secretary non-senior posts..!