Election Manifestos and Policies

[not on facebook]

It was reported in a newspaper some time back Glynn I seem to recall .bug saying that my memory has its downfalls .but let's not take just one case on this health tourism issue as the totall cost to the NHS will be a lot more than the £500,000 I plucked out.

[not on facebook]

I will chuck my arrows at the board and guess that health tourism will cost the NHS 3% or a tad more of its yearly budget .

[Akinfenwa]

After a quick Google search it would appear that the cost of 'health tourism' to the NHS is potentially up to £300m per year. 0.3% of their budget.

Sounds like a non-issue to me.

[Glyn_Wigley]

After a quick Google search it would appear that the cost of 'health tourism' to the NHS is potentially up to £300m per year. 0.3% of their budget.

Sounds like a non-issue to me.

Dead easy to find if you really want to know, it seems. Not everyone is as bothered as they make out though.

[not on facebook]

Some lady from another country landed in the U.K. Whilst she had a bun in her oven,she dropped the said bun which turned out to be 4 buns that popped out to the exsprncd of £500,000 to the HNS,give or take a £ or two.

She then went back to her native country ( somewhere in Africa) without paying a bean.

The NHS cant help it self

Is this another of your can't-be-arsed-to-check anecdotes?

Her name was Priscilla,only recall that because of Elvis tbh.she was from Nigeria and she gave birth to 4 kids at charlottes hospital in London > this cost the NHS £500,000 and she fcuked off back to Nigeria without paying a penny.

Ok that amount of money is fcuk all when you look at the yearly budget of the NHS  but that is no way
to run a corner shop never mind a state institution

[RedJ]

You're right. I'd be livid if people came into my corner shop just to give birth then emigrated.

[not on facebook]

You have a point there redj but you can bet that the corner shop owner would do a far better job of chasing up any money owed .

[Glyn_Wigley]

Some lady from another country landed in the U.K. Whilst she had a bun in her oven,she dropped the said bun which turned out to be 4 buns that popped out to the exsprncd of £500,000 to the HNS,give or take a £ or two.

She then went back to her native country ( somewhere in Africa) without paying a bean.

The NHS cant help it self

Is this another of your can't-be-arsed-to-check anecdotes?

Her name was Priscilla,only recall that because of Elvis tbh.she was from Nigeria and she gave birth to 4 kids at charlottes hospital in London > this cost the NHS £500,000 and she fcuked off back to Nigeria without paying a penny.

Ok that amount of money is fcuk all when you look at the yearly budget of the NHS  but that is no way
to run a corner shop never mind a state institution

I've used Google and found it. She wasn't an 'NHS tourist' as you call it. She wasn't even coming to this country. And it wasn't £500K.

[MachoMadness]

Did a bit of Googling because f**k it I'm bored. Predictably there's a Daily Mail article about it full of half-truths and racist sensationalism that Oslo lapped up without bothering to read the story beyond the bits that confirmed his shithouse racist prejudices.

Turns out there was a woman called Priscilla who was pregnant with quadruplets, travelling to America to give birth with her family. She was turned away and sent back to Nigeria via Heathrow. She went into labour 3 months premature on the flight and had to be rushed to hospital.

Two of those quadruplets died. The other two required intensive care, as did the mother. It didn't matter where they were from, the NHS didn't turn them away, because once you start down that road it leads to dark places. They got on with it and saved two babies' lives.

Kitsons like Oslo would have you believe that saving babies' lives makes the NHS weak and wasteful if those babies happen to be born to a mam from somewhere they don't like. Me, I think that shows you why the NHS is the greatest British institution there is.

[not on facebook]

Some lady from another country landed in the U.K. Whilst she had a bun in her oven,she dropped the said bun which turned out to be 4 buns that popped out to the exsprncd of £500,000 to the HNS,give or take a £ or two.

She then went back to her native country ( somewhere in Africa) without paying a bean.

The NHS cant help it self

Is this another of your can't-be-arsed-to-check anecdotes?

Her name was Priscilla,only recall that because of Elvis tbh.she was from Nigeria and she gave birth to 4 kids at charlottes hospital in London > this cost the NHS £500,000 and she fcuked off back to Nigeria without paying a penny.

Ok that amount of money is fcuk all when you look at the yearly budget of the NHS  but that is no way
to run a corner shop never mind a state institution

I've used Google and found it. She wasn't an 'NHS tourist' as you call it. She wasn't even coming to this country. And it wasn't £500K.

You only google what you want to read Glynn fella ,I know what I read sometime back and Iam 100%
Certian that Iam on the correct road.

she was turned back from USA as she wanted to give birth in that country > could not provide documentation that she was American and could not provide any money to pay for the births > that's her down as a health tourist no matter what way you look at it.

She then got onto a plane to heathrow London while on the plane she went into contractions or whatever you call them > ended up in a chelsea hospital and gave birth to 4 kids and two died > running up a £500,000 unpaid bill.

The yanks did not let her in because she did not have the funds to pay or could not provide paper work that she was American > what part of this does not spell out health tourism

[not on facebook]

Did a bit of Googling because f**k it I'm bored. Predictably there's a Daily Mail article about it full of half-truths and racist sensationalism that Oslo lapped up without bothering to read the story beyond the bits that confirmed his shithouse racist prejudices.

Turns out there was a woman called Priscilla who was pregnant with quadruplets, travelling to America to give birth with her family. She was turned away and sent back to Nigeria via Heathrow. She went into labour 3 months premature on the flight and had to be rushed to hospital.

Two of those quadruplets died. The other two required intensive care, as did the mother. It didn't matter where they were from, the NHS didn't turn them away, because once you start down that road it leads to dark places. They got on with it and saved two babies' lives.

Kitsons like Oslo would have you believe that saving babies' lives makes the NHS weak and wasteful if those babies happen to be born to a mam from somewhere they don't like. Me, I think that shows you why the NHS is the greatest British institution there is.

in the article in a metro newspaper and the fact that she is black don't make me a racist you prick ,I only put up what I recall reading,the words £500,000 ,health tourist,presicila,Nigeria,4 births, stopped in America,Chelsea hostpital ,heathrow flight stick in my mind.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Some lady from another country landed in the U.K. Whilst she had a bun in her oven,she dropped the said bun which turned out to be 4 buns that popped out to the exsprncd of £500,000 to the HNS,give or take a £ or two.

She then went back to her native country ( somewhere in Africa) without paying a bean.

The NHS cant help it self

Is this another of your can't-be-arsed-to-check anecdotes?

Her name was Priscilla,only recall that because of Elvis tbh.she was from Nigeria and she gave birth to 4 kids at charlottes hospital in London > this cost the NHS £500,000 and she fcuked off back to Nigeria without paying a penny.

Ok that amount of money is fcuk all when you look at the yearly budget of the NHS  but that is no way
to run a corner shop never mind a state institution

I've used Google and found it. She wasn't an 'NHS tourist' as you call it. She wasn't even coming to this country. And it wasn't £500K.

You only google what you want to read Glynn fella ,I know what I read sometime back and Iam 100%
Certian that Iam on the correct road.

she was turned back from USA as she wanted to give birth in that country > could not provide documentation that she was American and could not provide any money to pay for the births > that's her down as a health tourist no matter what way you look at it.

She then got onto a plane to heathrow London while on the plane she went into contractions or whatever you call them > ended up in a chelsea hospital and gave birth to 4 kids and two died > running up a £500,000 unpaid bill.

The yanks did not let her in because she did not have the funds to pay or could not provide paper work that she was American > what part of this does not spell out health tourism

The part you got wrong of course - she was not flying to this country, she was on her way home to NIGERIA, not coming to this country to scam the NHS at all. Nor would she have made any of the decisions about which hospital she was admitted to either, even if she had been in any state to do so.

Unless of course you REALLY want us to believe you think that when the plane was refuelling at Heathrow (ie the AIRLINE decided to come to the UK,not her) she deliberately decided to try and squeeze out her kids THREE MONTHS prematurely so she could use the NHS for free? In which case, you'd be beneath contempt.

A health tourist is someone who deliberately comes to the UK to take advantage of the NHS when they are not entitled to it. Are you really trying to tell us this woman falls into this category?

Then again, no doubt you'd say the BBC can't be trusted.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38809530

[MachoMadness]

in the article in a metro newspaper and the fact that she is black don't make me a racist you prick ,I only put up what I recall reading,the words £500,000 ,health tourist,presicila,Nigeria,4 births, stopped in America,Chelsea hostpital ,heathrow flight stick in my mind.

So. There was a story about the tragic deaths of two babies, that you knew about, that you chose to push as an example of them foreigners coming over here to scam the NHS, even though the woman was flying back to Nigeria at the time. In the same story there were two babies who's lives were saved because of the efforts of the NHS, but you seem to think that's a bad thing because of the health tourism bogeyman.

Can't think why that, coupled with your recent ranting about several other black women in the news, and posting history in general, would lead people to think you were racist...

[not on facebook]

I had a rant about sturgeon other week ,how will that fit in with your profile bullshit

[drfchound]

Now THAT woman deserves it.

[not on facebook]

I will add Lilly Allen to my list aswell and last time I looked she was white.

[Bentley Bullet]

Why has every bloody argument got to resort to someone being accused of being racist? It really, REALLY is f**king pathetic.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Interesting to see last night that since the Tories decreased corporation tax they make far more money from it.
Corbyn is going to make Hospital car parking free by raising taxes on private health Insurance! Well as a person who pays £120 a month into such a scheme I will be pulling out of it and becoming another burden for the beleaguered NHS to worry about.

Likewise I would pull out also I suspect. Love to see also how labour plan to buy out the 20-30 year contracts put in place at hospitals by, erm labour.

Just the Labour ones? What about all those that Gideon set up but called a different name to fool people?

They would count also. The point is they're known about and can't be reversed without a big cost. The money that flows in these contracts will still need to flow, if there is none and trusts keep the cash it's more of a funding hole to bridge.

[MachoMadness]

Why has every bloody argument got to resort to someone being accused of being racist? It really, REALLY is f**king pathetic.

Every argument? Or just ones that you know are full of lies and half truths, that you're using to push an objectively false agenda about foreigners coming over to scam the NHS in droves?

Bonus points for using a story about 2 dead babies.

[Bentley Bullet]

Why single out his 'rantings about black women'?

[MachoMadness]

Wasn't really singled out, considering it was paired with a comment about this story and his posting history in general. Granted he's also particularly vitriolic about other women, mainly powerful and opinionated ones, but all that speaks to is that he's not only a racist piece of shit, but a sexist piece of shit as well. So... well done?

Are you seriously suggesting there is no racist undertone to his postings in this thread, or dozens of other threads? Do you not reckon that should be challenged, particularly when - and here's the key point you and him seem to be keen to avoid - he's using a story about the deaths of two newborn babies to push some overblown, scarmongering, provably false bullshit?

[MrFrost]

I like the Labour manifesto, those industries should never have been nationalised in the first place. I value the NHS, the tories seem hell bent on destroying it. I will vote for the policies rather than the person

Having previously worked in the energy industry for nearly ten years, if you think it would be better in public hands, then you're serious misguided.

[Bentley Bullet]

So he's just a plain sexist piece of shit if he says owt bad about Lily Allen and Nicola sturgeon, but if he says owt bad about Dianne Abbott or Priscilla the Nigerian lady he's a racist sexist piece of shit.

So to avoid being accused of being a racist or sexist piece of shit you can only aim your vitriol at British White males? Wouldn't that make you a racist and sexist piece of shit towards British White males?

[Filo]

Labour will plant a money tree? It doesn't add up to me. Create more jobs but tax those who create them.

You're a company you can pay a whack of tax here but be outside the eu or pay much less in Ireland with eu access - madness.


As for taxing those at 80k much more, 80k is not in some cases a huge amount of money. Justify that to a family in London with one working person.  I tend to think the tax level may be too low but so is 80k.

On nationalisation, was it really any good before privatisation, really?

The key point for me is it just doesn't add up, the costings on the face of it seem to contradict a little. Devil in the detail of course.

It seems over the years Labour have been more trustworthy with our finances than the Tories

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016/03/13/the-conservatives-have-been-the-biggest-borrowers-over-the-last-70-years/

[MachoMadness]

So he's just a plain sexist piece of shit if he says owt bad about Lily Allen and Nicola sturgeon, but if he says owt bad about Dianne Abbott or Priscilla the Nigerian lady he's a racist sexist piece of shit.

So to avoid being accused of being a racist or sexist piece of shit you can only aim your vitriol at British White males? Wouldn't that make you a racist and sexist piece of shit towards British White males?

Ahh, context changing and whataboutery. You up for election on June 8th by any chance?

There's a subtle (actually not that subtle) difference between "saying owt bad" about someone, and someone who regularly uses generalisations, lazy slurs and who openly admits to peddling lies and half-truths that he doesn't bother to check to push his agenda. But I suspect you know that. Context.

Nice work on once again ignoring the fact that Oslo is knowingly pushing a story about 2 babies dying, and openly stating that saving the other 2 babies was a bad thing, as an example of health tourism when it's nothing of the sort, just because the woman in question happens to be from Nigeria. As I say, context.

[drfchound]

Figures can be used to argue cases for or against your preferred politics.
Take the National Debt(ND) for example.
One hundred years ago it was at a similar level to what it is right now.
Then came WW1(Liberal government) and as you would expect the ND went through the roof during the war years.
During the following 30 years split almost equally between Tory and Labour governments the debt came down until WW2 came along and again, as you would expect it shot up, to an all time high.
Then from around 1951 to around 1993 the ND fell consistently to the level of 1914.
In the following years to 2010 (17 years) under 14 years of Labour government the ND went to around its current (highest since 1970)level.
The level has remained roughly the same since under 7 years of Tory rule.

The point i am making is that this evidence would suggest that under a Labour government the ND is more likely to rise.

Obviously other outside factors come into play,wars for example, but as i stated, figures can be produced to argue a case for or against an argument.

[wilts rover]

Thats an interesting overview hound thanks. The first graph illustrates what you have said but takes it back it bit further and shows the history of the National Debt in relation to events at the time - essentially it was used to fund wars.

But where have you got your figures from?

Between the end of WW1 and the beginning of WW2 (20 years not 30) when there is a huge rise during the depression, Labour were in power for 3 years - including the period of National Government - and the Tories for 15 years.

No way has the debt stayed the same since 2010 as you can see from the other two graphs. In monatary terms it has doubled under the Tories - not quite as much as the rise given as a percentage of GDP.
http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/uk_national_debt_chart.html

[Bentley Bullet]

Ahh, context changing and whataboutery. You up for election on June 8th by any chance?

No I'm not up for election but if I was I wouldn't use the racist card against people to try and gain smarty points from those gullible enough to believe it.

[drfchound]

WiltsRover, the 20/30 year error was a typo,unchecked due to dashing from work and not checking before posting.
Had you not spotted it though perhaps lots of people would have read and accepted it, further emphasising my point that written stats can be put out there to prove a point.

However, during those years the Labour Party was involved in Coalition governments for some eleven years of which Ramsay McDonald was in the driving seat for four of them.
Labour were in sole charge for around three years and the rest of that time had a Conservative PM.

In fact, during the time I was originally posting about, that 1918 to 1939 (21 years) the Conservatives were only in power for 11years, not 15.

If you read my post again you will see that I didn't say that the ND has stayed the same since 2010.
I said it has stayed roughly the same and currently is roughly where it was around 1970.
That is currently at about half of what it was in 1950 when Labour were in power.

From 1951 to 1974 the Conservatives were in power with the exception of a six year spell and the ND fell to approximately its current level.

Going back over your graph to 1721 to 1914 the Labour Party (The Whigs in those days) were in power for about 67 years against the Conservatives (The Tory party in those days) for 82 years.
Not really far off the same over that 193 year period.
The other years during that time were split between the Liberal and Coalitions in the main.

The highest that the ND figure has ever been was around the 1825-35 period.
The last Whig PM left office in 1852 and there wasn't another Whig/Labour government until 1924.
During those 72 years the ND fell consistently to its pre WW1 low.

[Glyn_Wigley]

The Labour Party was never the Whigs.