Election Manifestos and Policies

[wilts rover]

There appears to be some mythology here that we wont be paying tax under the Tories. The total tax burden that we all pay, VAT, car tax, council tax, etc has risen under this government to 35% of our income - the highest it has been since 1986. It is set to rise to 37%.

But at least people like Mike Ashley and Richard Branson get to keep more of their money eh - how nice of the rest of us to pay for it.

https://www.ft.com/content/873bc90b-3ec5-379a-a0c0-08fe77196bb6

and these taxes have been shown to hit the poorest the hardest:
http://www.taxpayersalliance.com/the_tax_burden_hits_the_poorest_hardest

[drfchound]

"There seems to be some mythology here that we wont be paying tax under the Tories".

Really?

LOL.

[bobjimwilly]

Well that put that one to bed Jenny.

BUT labour will still think taxing higher is the way forward, and it's obviously not.

It's the oldest Tory trick in the book; convincing the masses they will reduce tax and they'll be more money in all of our pockets. But that's not true is it? Income tax may come down (saving the super wealthy thousands, if not millions, a year) but VAT goes up, fuel duty slowly creeps up, council tax creeps up, f**king bedroom tax is introduced, and does everyone remember the "pasty tax"? Basically any non-income related taxes that are paid for by all. There's even talk of the so called "dementia tax" being introduced under a Tory government (introduced during Dementia Awareness week, of all weeks!)

[drfchound]

Have the Tories said they will reduce tax for the masses in their manifesto?

[Filo]

Well after todays release of the Tory manifesto, anyone who can vote for that load of crap should be certified insane!

[hoolahoop]

Labour will plant a money tree? It doesn't add up to me. Create more jobs but tax those who create them.

You're a company you can pay a whack of tax here but be outside the eu or pay much less in Ireland with eu access - madness.


As for taxing those at 80k much more, 80k is not in some cases a huge amount of money. Justify that to a family in London with one working person.  I tend to think the tax level may be too low but so is 80k.

On nationalisation, was it really any good before privatisation, really?

The key point for me is it just doesn't add up, the costings on the face of it seem to contradict a little. Devil in the detail of course.

It seems over the years Labour have been more trustworthy with our finances than the Tories

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016/03/13/the-conservatives-have-been-the-biggest-borrowers-over-the-last-70-years/

Now that blog has astounded me and blown many a theory out of the water . This should have a one off special TV  programme to blow this myth out of the water once and for all .

[hoolahoop]

Corbin is picking his venues very well too.
What better place to visit than a University when announcing banning tuition fees.
No wonder they were cheering him.

Yes a bit like May visiting the working class North East and then bussing in Tory activists to cheer her, all for the BBC Cameras, no locals were allowed anywhere near!

But don't forget that the Torys are also pledging to help the many as well.

Yes of course they are . I thought I better cut you some slack considering I watched as 2 cats played with you ( the mouse ) for what seemed like an eternity of a read.

Thought you were lucky that Billy Stubbs Tears had long given up the forum otherwise we would have lost days out of our lives .

Like all stats you did have 1/2 salient points that you weren't given the opportunity to develop thank God.

Goodness nearly forgot the fixtures come out next week. Incidentally I hope it wasn't you that thought the Whig Party and the Labour Party were one and the same.

Just a final point , life would be so much easier if politics was taught in our Secondary schools particularly Political History ; however neither of the 2 main political parties would trust our teachers and academics with that task unlike in other " modern " European countries where the very mention of Coalitions is NOT  a dirty word . Most modern day democracies have long dispensed with a political system that lurches from one direction to the other with alarming alacrity and waste purporting to represent the electorate on often little more than 33% of the vote rarely ever delivering on manifesto promises .
My view our democracy is all but dead if indeed it ever really existed now left to the machinations of media barons, big business, foreign interference etc . The Brexit result and how that was brought about the final straw.

[hoolahoop]

The Tories will win (again) and look after their own (again) and people will still fall for their bullshit (again).

Only with the costs of Brexit to shoulder too. It's like the British people are pushing an ox cart through a swamp whilst the water becomes deeper and the load becomes heavier.
This is not going to end well ....

[hoolahoop]

SORRY rob but I look at the numbers first (no surprise).  Labour costings will be a disaster. Companies will cut investment, will move offshore and will cut jobs.  If you want pm me and I'll explain what I mean with some context that I can't do in public.

Don't disagree that some Tory policies aren't the best nor do I disagree that there are issues in the nhs etc. But how do we get past these issues? With difficulty. The population is ageing the economy must change and sadly private healthcare to an extent probably has to play a part.  I have private healthcare, tax it and I'll cancel it and burden the nhs a little more. There should be some strong legislation on that though such as banning the use of nhs hospitals by nhs doctors working privately at weekends when they complain they don't like changing shift patterns.

Minimum wage. Yes it has 96 increase but not so fast, it will just lead to increasing inflation.  Inflation was always to increase this year given brexit and decreasing value of the pound.

Student loans. Torn on this. IT will make me a fair bit better off a month so happy there. But should I benefit as a graduate qualified and working?  Probably not. I should pay back given I have seen benefit from it though I would scrap the interest.

Tories will win it on brexit though. Just far stronger in that area after that well they'll have to perform or it becomes a Churchill scenario. Get through a tricky time then scrapped.

Andy have you done some number crunching on the potential costs of Brexit because that would be interesting - NO- ONE  seems to think it pertinent to work out the effect of a crash out on WTO rules yet or have they certainly none that voted for it anyway
?
Most were unaware of the FULL  ramifications of this cliff edge scenario especially the politicians.  In fact most of the Labour Shadow cabinet have got past doing sums properly and as for the Tories they aren't half- arsed !

As for student loans , I have a daughter at uni and many of her friends don't have a problem with repaying reasonable tuition fees £ 6,7k p.a. but do object to repaying the Maintenance Loan aspect . The 2nd component is for living costs and we wouldn't expect anyone on Unemployment Benefit to repay their assistance  I wonder what other people think about this ?

[hoolahoop]

Of course other papers don't have a bias to the Labour set up.

Which ones compete with the Daily Mail, Express, The Sun and the Times. Against that lot and of course the BBC, Sky and Fox we have dum der dum  The Mirror / Guardian & The Indy .

A bit like Chelsea v. Stockport County. 

[Glyn_Wigley]

You missed out the Telegraph, Star and Metro, hoola

[Glyn_Wigley]

SORRY rob but I look at the numbers first (no surprise).  Labour costings will be a disaster. Companies will cut investment, will move offshore and will cut jobs.  If you want pm me and I'll explain what I mean with some context that I can't do in public.

Don't disagree that some Tory policies aren't the best nor do I disagree that there are issues in the nhs etc. But how do we get past these issues? With difficulty. The population is ageing the economy must change and sadly private healthcare to an extent probably has to play a part.  I have private healthcare, tax it and I'll cancel it and burden the nhs a little more. There should be some strong legislation on that though such as banning the use of nhs hospitals by nhs doctors working privately at weekends when they complain they don't like changing shift patterns.

Minimum wage. Yes it has 96 increase but not so fast, it will just lead to increasing inflation.  Inflation was always to increase this year given brexit and decreasing value of the pound.

Student loans. Torn on this. IT will make me a fair bit better off a month so happy there. But should I benefit as a graduate qualified and working?  Probably not. I should pay back given I have seen benefit from it though I would scrap the interest.

Tories will win it on brexit though. Just far stronger in that area after that well they'll have to perform or it becomes a Churchill scenario. Get through a tricky time then scrapped.

Andy have you done some number crunching on the potential costs of Brexit because that would be interesting - NO- ONE  seems to think it pertinent to work out the effect of a crash out on WTO rules yet or have they certainly none that voted for it anyway
?
Most were unaware of the FULL  ramifications of this cliff edge scenario especially the politicians.  In fact most of the Labour Shadow cabinet have got past doing sums properly and as for the Tories they aren't half- arsed !

I've known about it from Day One. But got shouted down on here because despite knowing it, apparently I didn't know 'what is going to happen'. Yet I know that if we leave the Single Market and the Customs Union - which is what the Tories seem to be saying - this IS what will happen. Customs Declarations and all the red tape associated with 'Free' trade outside of a Customs Union will be imposed, whereas some 'experts' on here seem to think that negotiating a 'Free' trade agreement with another country will magically make all these requirements disappear. Fools.

[drfchound]

Most of the people i know who voted to leave the EU did so in the hope of us stopping mass immigration into the UK.
It was as though that was the major reason for leaving.
Many of them have admitted to me since that they had not realised the other difficulties that will very obviously happen after BREXIT.

[not on facebook]

I was just about to post something on the exact same lines DRFChound.

by the way check the milk thread out

[idler]

Maybe it was age related. I voted to leave because the Common Market that I had voted into was nothing like what the EU was becoming.
Immigration was only part of my thinking,not the main one. I am retired though so not worrying rightly or wrongly about my job being pinched by someone from another country.

[Herbert Anchovy]

I voted to leave without really knowing if it was the right thing or not. Over the past year, seeing the reaction of the remain voters and how our European cousins are desperate to make an example of us, I'm more comfortable with the way I voted.

Immigration wasn't a great factor for me, although I do have some concerns about it. Moreover it was that the free market steam train seems to be leaving a trail of victims behind it and nobody in the EU seemed to give a shit.

Saying that, it could still be the worst thing that we've ever done...

[not on facebook]

The way the non remain voters have carried on has really got on my tits  hence why I have such bad fealings towrads that Gina miller pig.

[Sammy Chung was King]

Here's how i see it. All the parties will continue giving money away to other countries while it's people struggle as does the nhs etc. I'm not against helping anybody in need but when you just decide 'we are going to give x amount even if there isn't a valid cause to help' then it's plain stupidity.
 Whoever gets in power will continue this-why?. Because a lot of it is to kind of influence emerging nations to deal with us over others it isn't just to help. The problem is the government spouts off about how Labour left a mess, no money left in the coffers etc, etc. This government has taken borrowing to 200% over what's actually coming in coming in. In the second world war it was 100% over what was coming in do you see the trouble they have got the younger generation in?

They have been borrowing to maintain things rather than borrowing to improve things. To get business going again, to make sure people have money to spend. They need to build things up not run them down and try to run everything at economy level. They will give money to other countries, they will build a high speed train network that will mainly benefit the south while old people who just when they reach a time in life where they feel vulnerable they get moved from pillar to post.
The new idea of giving people a year off to care for a relative is good in principle but is really just a way to save on them spending a penny on the older person who has earned respect and dignity and probably paid more than enough tax in.
 I don't like how at the minute the 'us and them' dividing isn't this time the immigrants or the unemployed it's pitting young against old this time.

At a time when respect for older people in my opinion is at an all-time low they tell the young person in and roundabout way 'We can't help you because the old people are getting your money'!.
This dividing has been going on since the Tories took over. They lied to get in a prime minister who throughout her tenure as an mp in various jobs has failed-immigration numbers being the stand out-tens of thousands would come in when really she hasn't a clue how many have come in but it's in the millions.
They pontificate about how they have more in work than before but at what cost?. People having to use food banks who work is shameful. People might have jobs but not the wages to live comfortably. They are taking this country back to the Victorian ages.
Any young people on here your age range don't seem to vote as much as the older or middle generation put that right!.

 I won't tell you who to vote for because everybody makes their own decision and the choices don't look great. Vote tory and you will get more lies where they won't do what they say they will. They will destroy the nhs until there is nothing left. They will pay a big amount to come out of the EU when that money could be used to give young people a hand in the tricky period between leaving school and working. They will humiliate your elderly grandparents by making them jump through hoops to get care they are entitled to. If you need help and can't work they will again make you jump through hoops and take away what little pride you have left while you are on benefits. They will systematically destroy the system you know it's already started you might have noticed.

Labour the leader isn't the best but he is the nearest to a traditional labour leader for many years. They're idea is to borrow to grow the country rather than us all struggling. We have had six years of struggle is time for a change. Labour won't deliver on everything just like the tories won't but you won't get vindictive government that doesn't want to help it's own. Corbyn won't lead for a long time in my opinion so if you like Labour vote for the policies rather than the leader.

The Liberals as always a bit wishy washy and not really dealing with the major problems. They are concentrating on trying to win some of their vote back rather than thinking they can win. The leader again not the best not somebody you could see as prime minister really.

UKIP another party trying to get back some votes to try and get more than they-re token one mp in parliament. They have what look like good policies but everything seems to go back to just immigration with them when though too many coming in is a problem you do need good people going in and out of the country.

The rest to me are just also-rans who won't really factor. Whoever you are try and get your vote in this is just as important as the brexit vote in my opinion. Already May has made some terrible mistakes in dealing with the EU. Once friendly relations with Scotland and Wales are cooling. In my opinion it's time for a change of direction for me the tories will give us more of the same struggling. The future of the country lies in the younger votes hands if the tories are to be beaten as i'd like because i see nothing positive in the way they are going to go about things. A dementia tax have you ever heard anything so cruel in your life?. Believe me if they get back in the whole fabric of the country will turn for the worse. I respect those who disagree none of them will make everything wonderful but any but the tories for me would lead to fairer run country!.

[drfchound]

Written by a true labour man, well done.

You are Corbyn  and i claim my £5 prize.

[wilts rover]

I notice the Scottish Tories have said they are going to keep the Winter Fuel Allowances for Scottish pensioners - which they can do under devolution. So it seems as though May will be taking money from English pensioners - but giving it to Scottish ones! Enjoy voting for that.

I should keep your money if I were you hound - you might need it!

[drfchound]

It doesnt look like i will be getting my winter fuel allowance but if it distributes it fairly to those who need it i am not too concerned.

[Herbert Anchovy]

You'll do for me Sammy!

[Sammy Chung was King]

Written by a true labour man, well done.

You are Corbyn  and i claim my £5 prize.

Not really hound, in my time i have also voted liberal going by the policies labour are the winners. They are trying to tackle the main issues whereas the other parties are concentrating on a smaller group of issues so as not to cause confusion. The problem is unlike the tories think brexit isn't the only issue and i think concentrating mainly on that might cost them.
I'm not particularly impressed with Corbyn but maybe it's because i've seen so many liars i don't recognise somebody different. By the way if you vote Tory watch that five pound you've claimed you will get taxed plus some VAT-You might end with about a quid and twenty pence.

[drfchound]

Why would I get taxed on it and charged VAT ?

It amuses me somewhat that popular opinion at present is that Brexit is somehow the fault of the Tories.
It isn't of course, it is down to the public vote and the Government are charged with finding the best of what is available for the Nation when it finally comes around.

[Filo]

Why would I get taxed on it and charged VAT ?

It amuses me somewhat that popular opinion at present is that Brexit is somehow the fault of the Tories.
It isn't of course, it is down to the public vote and the Government are charged with finding the best of what is available for the Nation when it finally comes around.

unearned income, it's easier to go for the little man than their corporate friends

[drfchound]

VAT ?

[drfchound]

Anyway Filo, I am about as likely to declare it as you are putting your tips on your tax return.

[wilts rover]

VAT ?

Tories removed their previous manifesto pledge not to raise it. A suspicious person would say this is because they intend to raise it. Presumably you will tell us differently.

But they are going to cut corporation tax so you will be allright.

[Filo]

Anyway Filo, I am about as likely to declare it as you are putting your tips on your tax return.

Tips?

You've all on getting paid around here, never mind getting a tip 😀😀

[roversontheup]

Anyway Filo, I am about as likely to declare it as you are putting your tips on your tax return.

Tips?

You've all on getting paid around here, never mind getting a tip 😀😀

Maybe I should ring you when I need a taxi. I always give a small tip.