The London high tower block fire.

[wilts rover]

Members of media have become targets .

Local people unhappy with the Murdoch media - no s**t...
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/16/sun-journalist-grenfell-tower-victim-hospital

[RedJ]

I know that I post the odd views and opinions that are on the different side of the road to many etc etc .

I will do my best to deffend my views opinions within a certian protocall as Iam sure that I never go down the road of point scoring against whoever to back up my points.

I might throw some of my backward humor in here and there.

But I have to point out  that  on this thread school playground
tactics seems to have cropped up amongst the flak .


Have some decor please.

Yeah, agreed.
Don't try to paper over things.

Funny how it usually starts with Yargo randomly involving himself by ripping into a member who no longer visits the forum for no apparent reason then somehow bringing the EU into something that has absolutely nothing to do with any of the thread.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Theresa May has found the magic money tree and promised £5mill from it!

[Sprotyrover]

I notice that there are hardly any Anglo Saxon faces on the missing pics, a hodgepodge of races from all over the globe, was the tower block some sort of council halfway house for Refugees or is just the diverse nature of inner city London.what was the Italian couple doing living there if it is all council they appear to be professionals working in London it's strange.

[Sprotyrover]

Watching events unfold the term CATNAPPING springs to mind, cheapest alternative technology necessary to avoid prosecution!

[Filo]

Make no mistake, there will be local councillors, government ministers, the people from the management company and those that did the refurb shiiting their pants now. Someone will go to jail for a very long time for this. How many are now trying to cover their backs, hence the reason there appears little info coming from anyone

[not on facebook]

I notice that there are hardly any Anglo Saxon faces on the missing pics, a hodgepodge of races from all over the globe, was the tower block some sort of council halfway house for Refugees or is just the diverse nature of inner city London.what was the Italian couple doing living there if it is all council they appear to be professionals working in London it's strange.

The term is called white flight and it kicks in when 28% of whatever neighbourhood becomes immigrant .

The whites take more notice once 28% figure is reached ,feal uncomfortable sell and move to wherever .sold properties are snapped up by immigrant then 28% becomes like upton park at west hams old ground.

This term white flight was first noticed in  areas  of San Francisco back in 1970s .

[not on facebook]

It's no wonder that there is slight unrest at a couple of the demonstrations today.

That idiot may was asked on a bbc news interview 'do you think that you got it wrong by not meeting the local people of the block of flats yesterday'

and the stupid cow can not give a simple yes or no answer ,but she answers in a complete different tangent with a answer that takes her to Glasgow to get to Leeds.

[wilts rover]

Who is co-ordinating the assistance and information for the disaster relief? It all seems to be volunteers from the local community (some of them are even white). How can people find out if their relatives are in a hospital or placed in a safe house somewhere? Where is the control centre, lists of names? Sticking posters up on a wall as you would for a lost cat.

This is 21st century Britain - London, one of the richest and most technologically advanced cities in the world - you would think it was the wild west. No wonder people are angry.

[Filo]

Who is co-ordinating the assistance and information for the disaster relief? It all seems to be volunteers from the local community (some of them are even white). How can people find out if their relatives are in a hospital or placed in a safe house somewhere? Where is the control centre, lists of names? Sticking posters up on a wall as you would for a lost cat.

This is 21st century Britain - London, one of the richest and most technologically advanced cities in the world - you would think it was the wild west. No wonder people are angry.

I was thinking exactly the same, I think various officials are covering their own backs so the lack of official co ordination and information is buying them time to engineer a cover up

[not on facebook]

It's sorry to hear that people are going from hospital to hospital trying to find out if their lived ones are in there.

Why don't all hospitals involved take snap shots of all people addmitted throu it's doors from the tower block fire .

A quick face shot or two from even a Mobil phone with a name if supplied on admittance .then all info passed on to a persons addmitted to hospital office.

They can then put up photos of all addmitted on walls inside the office with relivent info underneath,and update once a day.

Even if the addmitted are dead have those picture up in a different room or office.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Who is co-ordinating the assistance and information for the disaster relief? It all seems to be volunteers from the local community (some of them are even white). How can people find out if their relatives are in a hospital or placed in a safe house somewhere? Where is the control centre, lists of names? Sticking posters up on a wall as you would for a lost cat.

This is 21st century Britain - London, one of the richest and most technologically advanced cities in the world - you would think it was the wild west. No wonder people are angry.

Remember Cameron's 'Big Society' vision, where the people do more for each other? This is it in action - rely on people to do stuff for nothing so the government can spend less on doing it.

[drfchound]

I wonder what would have been said if Labour had won the election?
Just a thought.

[Glyn_Wigley]

You'd have been the first to say it, so no need to wonder.

[drfchound]

I doubt that very much Glyn.
When an event like this happens it is very poor to try to score political points when most decent people are concerned about the welfare of the people directly involved in it.
Shame on you.

[Glyn_Wigley]

I doubt that very much Glyn.
When an event like this happens it is very poor to try to score political points when most decent people are concerned about the welfare of the people directly involved in it.
Shame on you.

So this:

I wonder what would have been said if Labour had won the election?
Just a thought.

is you showing concern for the welfare of the people directly involved and not trying to score a political point? Shame indeed.

[drfchound]

Responding to your shameful attempt at points scoring to emphasise how bad it looked for you.

I should have remembered how good you are at twisting comments.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Responding to your shameful attempt at points scoring to emphasise how bad it looked for you.

I should have remembered how good you are at twisting comments.

Yes, direct quotations can be twisted out of all recognition, can't they.

Apparently this one:

Who's your favourite for the role of scapegoat?

Probably anyone who isn't linked to the Labour party by the way this thread is degenerating.

originally read 'I am incredibly concerned for the victims'.

[bpoolrover]

Such a shame that such a tragedy has turned in political point scoring, the activists that have nothing to do with the fire should hang there heads in shame

[Iberian Red]

Who's your favorite for the role of scapegoat?

BobG

Eeh these Americanisms that's being brought in by kids!

Anyway it's obviously Farage's fault, or did someone just turn the clock back 12 months?
No fear Corbyn is just about to take over Lilly Allen's mansion

Wtf are you on about? You really are a purple helmet,and going off on another totally irrelevant one again.
Nevermind,maybe I'll be called a leftie and drag queen by our in house wit in your defence.

[wilts rover]

Such a shame that such a tragedy has turned in political point scoring, the activists that have nothing to do with the fire should hang there heads in shame

There are people living in 4000 tower blocks across the country who wont be sleeping very soundly tonight as they wonder if their home might go up in flames too.

If it wasn't for the activists who have nothing to do with the fire the survivors who have lost everything wouldn't have had anywhere to sleep or be fed for the past 3 days - or begun to collect belongings for them.

But yes there are people who should be hanging their heads in shame...

[Herman Hessian]

Such a shame that such a tragedy has turned in political point scoring, the activists that have nothing to do with the fire should hang there heads in shame

some people just can't resist fanning the flames, can they...

[BobG]

Well, ignoring the idiot twosome, there are some really intelligent, concerned and informed posts in this thread. I've learned things I didn't know. Thanks chaps.

Did anyone see the interview on the BBC, around 0930 ish today, where some 'grime artist' was talking about what a fireman had said to him last night during a benefit gig this grimey chap was giving? He said that the fireman, who had personal involvement with the tower, insisted that they have already found 200 bodies. The unclean chap repeated the statement too. The BBC itself is saying 30 confirmed plus they 'understand' around 70 other people are dead or missing so they are implying 100 or so.

I can understand the authorities being super cautious about naming names and confirming individuals, but if even the BBC are saying it's a hundred, what is stopping the authorities saying 'we have found xxx bodies but we can't yet identify them?'. Is it to prolong the hope of those who already know their nearest and dearest have been slaughtered? Or is it news management? Who would benefit from such a thing? Why is there so little information, so little leadership, of any sort, coming from our leaders? Even just standing there to be shot at would be a huge public service right now - to take some of the heat out of the anger. But except for Sadiq Khan and Jezza, nobody. So, I'm being forced to wonder how many midnight conferences are going on....? What preservation stories are being researched and reviewed and checked? What scapegoats are being identified?

Last thought: that BBC interview with the Maybot tonight. What a performance! She avoided every single question she was asked; she told us everything we already know ("It was a truly dreadful fire" Really? Well bugger me. "People fled with nothing except the clothes they were wearing". Get away...) and she told us nothing we didn't know - with the sole exception of the measly five miillion quid. I thought she knew she was looking a total tit. How often do Prime Ministers allow themselves to be interrupted and overruled by lowly junior journos? Yet the Maybot allowed it to happen three times in that interview. The woman is embarrassed. She's got nothing to say yet she knows she has to appear to say something. She's frit. She's out of her depth.

I'd make that building structurally secure and then leave it there as it is as a monument to the victims and as a reminder to every politician, newspaper editor, pundit and member of the public where hubris, neglect and negligence leads.

BobG

[Donnywolf]

Every Politician evades questions and / or gives an answer that becomes a point scoring off the opposition and by god Maybot who is way out of her depth and well exposed now is certainly a class act in that Department

This recent Andrew Marr interview on the Trident accidental misfire was excruciating. Why did she not just say something like " I am not prepared to answer that question just at the moment till I have .....x....y...or z reports! Instead she was like a Butterfly pinned to a Board and made herself look incredibly stupid by making it about Jezzas stance on the Trident system



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfw3n36jg4o


... and Politicians of all colours wonder why the electorate are disenchanted with them

[glosterred]

We are hearing lots about what the national government are doing or not doing, but I've seen nothing about what the local government are doing apart from the odd interview with the mayor of London. Is this fire not the local governments responsibility to organise and administer, maybe we should be hearing from them a little bit more.

[drfchound]

Responding to your shameful attempt at points scoring to emphasise how bad it looked for you.

I should have remembered how good you are at twisting comments.

Yes, direct quotations can be twisted out of all recognition, can't they.

Apparently this one:

Who's your favourite for the role of scapegoat?

Probably anyone who isn't linked to the Labour party by the way this thread is degenerating.

originally read 'I am incredibly concerned for the victims'.

My comments taken totally out of context as usual by your ability to put your spin on things.
I have explained my most recent post to you so let me explain the reason I wrote the one about anyone linked to the Labour Party.
it was an alternative response to the numerous posts on here that are in some way winding up the situation (the fire) in an attempt to imply that it is all the fault of the government.
My comment was of course not meant to be read in the way you implied it to be because of course I am concerned about the wellbeing of the victims and their families.
To suggest otherwise is outrageous.
It has been said that a faulty fridge may have started the fire so I suppose that is the fault of the government too?
All in all this has been a tragedy borne out of numerous collective reasons which when all coming together have resulted in the tower burning as it did.
Stopping those events happening together is a bit like trying to second guess where the next terrorist strike is going to happen.

[hoolahoop]

Who is co-ordinating the assistance and information for the disaster relief? It all seems to be volunteers from the local community (some of them are even white). How can people find out if their relatives are in a hospital or placed in a safe house somewhere? Where is the control centre, lists of names? Sticking posters up on a wall as you would for a lost cat.

This is 21st century Britain - London, one of the richest and most technologically advanced cities in the world - you would think it was the wild west. No wonder people are angry.

Good post , there should be the facilities of a 21st century supposed economic powerhouse ) organising all this . Are there no local military facilities etc. locally where these people can be housed , accounted for properly and made to feel comfortable ?

To remove them from the ONLY  thing they have left I. E. THEIR community is the very worst option for the local council to take . Now we have created a whole new shit storm for these poor people. I can see why the mood ( aided and abetted by spotty youfs no doubt ) has changed , desperation has naturally evolved into anger.

Like the disaster in the first place , the organisation had to be a priority and it looks/looked weak . Communication is key here .
Finally , I don't think that Kensington Council have a clue to the exact figures that may have died but they should have an estimate. Could there be upto 100, 150 , 200, 250 dead here . You get the feeling that this is being deliberately underplayed .

[Sprotyrover]

I wouldn't be surprised if there are several hundred bodies in the building,
And I wouldn't like to speculate but there may be a few cases of illegal subletting,if you can pack 32 adults into a 2 up 2 down in Firth park how many can you fit into a 2 bed flat in Des res london?

[wilts rover]

I dont think anyone is trying to say the tragedy is all the fault of the government hound - but there do seem to be some people who are trying to deflect any criticism of the government.

A government's role is to keep people safe and secure. If it is not doing so it should be held to account.

After those fires and the reports about them that have been highlighted further up the thread - who thought it was acceptable to allow a high rise building to be clad in a flammable material in 2015? And refurbish it without fitting sprinklers?

Who is leading the response to the disaster relief for the survivors? There were thousands of police and army personal dispatched onto the streets after the Manchester attack - why was it left to volunteers at Grenfell Tower?

[wilts rover]

Dont forget these were not all council flats, a lot were owned and/or rented privately so it will be difficult to get a 100% accurate figure as to wwho was there that night.
http://www.propertyindustryeye.com/flats-in-tragic-tower-block-put-up-for-private-sale-and-rent-after-being-acquired-under-right-to-buy/
http://www.standard.co.uk/Front/london-fire-inside-the-2k-grenfell-tower-flats-before-the-blaze-a3565416.html