The London high tower block fire.

[RobW]

Who is co-ordinating the assistance and information for the disaster relief? It all seems to be volunteers from the local community (some of them are even white). How can people find out if their relatives are in a hospital or placed in a safe house somewhere? Where is the control centre, lists of names? Sticking posters up on a wall as you would for a lost cat.

This is 21st century Britain - London, one of the richest and most technologically advanced cities in the world - you would think it was the wild west. No wonder people are angry.

Remember Cameron's 'Big Society' vision, where the people do more for each other? This is it in action - rely on people to do stuff for nothing so the government can spend less on doing it.

I suppose its the same problem we encountered yesterday. Its very difficult to determine which is the Linda McCartney and which is the Waitrose sausage on the barbeque.

[not on facebook]

Seen on social media that they've been told not to include people who threw themselves out of windows in the body count because they didn't die directly in the fire, according to a fireman.

Surely that has got to be a load of poppycock redj .

It's on social media so I take it that it's not official and just gossip.

Christ allmighty god if it becomes official thou .i can't even take on board that were even talking
about not including people that threw them sens out of a window ffs.

Just so that I can understand this why would anyone say that you can't include any window jumpers from the fire .
This mean that anyone that jumped out of a window and survived the jump are not counted in the number of people that have survived the fire.

It all seems like scotch mist to me

[wilts rover]

It all goes back to what I have said throughout this thread Oslo, there is no-one co-ordinating the disaster relief - or being a source of accurate information - for this tragedy.

Even now, lunchtime Sunday, when the government announced this morning a special team had been drafted in, I am watching a BBC reporter at the scene saying he doesnt notice any difference on the ground.

Thank goodness for all those political activists, providing food kitchens, manning church halls, collecting clothes, who dont have anything to do with the fire or nothing would be getting done. Other than politicians trying to avoid and shift the blame and trot out the latest 'spin' on the 'facts'.

[Dagenham Rover]

Looks like somebody could be in big trouble the cladding used is banned in the UK

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/grenfell-tower-cladding-banned-in-uk-reveals-chancellor/ar-BBCP8M3?li=AAmiR2Z&ocid=spartandhp

[not on facebook]

If as above states the cladding type  used was banned in the U.K. and if your in the cladding industry it's your job to know this .


So with the above the book starts with that company rydon that took on the job that installed the cladding.this now leaves every previous job that they have done to be fine tooth combed.

Next for the chopping block is the fcukwit(s) that signed the job off after a full inspection.
It's their job to check and sign off this work that it's all done correctly and false within all health and safety issues > so it's also their job to know what types of cladding are a YES or NO.

Maybe Iam as slack as pig shit but how can the type of banned cladding used get by two different so called specialists > obvious answers > fools with jobs or brown envelopes .

[Glyn_Wigley]

If as above states the cladding type  used was banned in the U.K. and if your in the cladding industry it's your job to know this .


So with the above the book starts with that company rydon that took on the job that installed the cladding.this now leaves every previous job that they have done to be fine tooth combed.

Next for the chopping block is the fcukwit(s) that signed the job off after a full inspection.
It's their job to check and sign off this work that it's all done correctly and false within all health and safety issues > so it's also their job to know what types of cladding are a YES or NO.

Maybe Iam as slack as pig shit but how can the type of banned cladding used get by two different so called specialists > obvious answers > fools with jobs or brown envelopes .

Or because the job has to go to the lowest bidder.

[Dagenham Rover]

If as above states the cladding type  used was banned in the U.K. and if your in the cladding industry it's your job to know this .


So with the above the book starts with that company rydon that took on the job that installed the cladding.this now leaves every previous job that they have done to be fine tooth combed.

Next for the chopping block is the fcukwit(s) that signed the job off after a full inspection.
It's their job to check and sign off this work that it's all done correctly and false within all health and safety issues > so it's also their job to know what types of cladding are a YES or NO.

Maybe Iam as slack as pig shit but how can the type of banned cladding used get by two different so called specialists > obvious answers > fools with jobs or brown envelopes .

Or because the job has to go to the lowest bidder.

 Even so no excuse to use banned materials

[roversdude]

Rydon are a terrible company who really try to cut corners to make more profit - and I do mean cut corners

[not on facebook]

Im delighted that someone has the same degree of cynicism as I do. My sympathy evaporated after the mob started to "protest".

It is my experience that when the mob (poor, oppressed, unemployed people) feel the necessity to demonstrate it always results in the looting of the local Currys.

The blame that is being allocated to the conservative government is laughable. This is American blame culture. The fact that hundreds of Syrians and burkah wearing types were crammed into one tower block....see Tony Blair and his failed efforts at multi-culturalism, the worst social experiment since the genocide.

Im going to try wearing a balaclava when the bank open on monday, I wonder how far I will get ? Ot what about an all white burkah with a white pointy hat and full face mask ? The hipocrisy is vile. Im utterly sick of this whole sorry mess and the placatory namby pamby socialist dogma that has systematically denuded British values and culture to the point where we see ourselves as a B+B for the flotsam of the planet incapable of supporting itself outside of Europe.

Crowds gather outside church for vigil after Grenfell Tower blaze




candles - drapes - wrapping paper - obvious fire hazard, IMHO....

You have put it a far better way than what I was thinking .since this was a social housing block i was quite shocked at the amount of different cultures that were housed in this block.

Don't want to sound racist here but  how can I ask this the correct way > where are all the white British social persons housed?

Is this a case of all immigrants wanting or heading into London only.

I think they are taking the piss when they state that they MUST be rehoused in the exact same area when there close to 2000 on the housing waiting list ,to which my guess 3/4 will be immigrant.

They get rehoused where ever they are found a property either that be London borough of kensington&chelses or Tim buck too .

Ok it's true to say that they have been shat on but that can't hold a gun to the governments head on where they are re housed .

[not on facebook]

If as above states the cladding type  used was banned in the U.K. and if your in the cladding industry it's your job to know this .


So with the above the book starts with that company rydon that took on the job that installed the cladding.this now leaves every previous job that they have done to be fine tooth combed.

Next for the chopping block is the fcukwit(s) that signed the job off after a full inspection.
It's their job to check and sign off this work that it's all done correctly and false within all health and safety issues > so it's also their job to know what types of cladding are a YES or NO.

Maybe Iam as slack as pig shit but how can the type of banned cladding used get by two different so called specialists > obvious answers > fools with jobs or brown envelopes .

Or because the job has to go to the lowest bidder.

When a company puts a job offer in don't whoever take a look at the specfications of the job etc etc.
Hence to say the banned cladding should have been picked up then aswell as said cladding must have been on the spec?

[Filo]

Thats the management of Rydon and the planning officer going to jail!

[wilts rover]

A hugely important point this of course because it changes the emphasis from the Building Regulations not being up to standard (and learning the lessons of these past fires) to the architects', planning officers, contractors and building control not doing their job properly - and being criminally negligent.

It's been a while since I worked in the building industry and I never did this type of work anyway, but if the Building Regs were infringed I am surprised it hasn't been mentioned until now. You would have thought one of these experts on cladding and fire safety would have said before now.

So had a quick look on line and this is the best I can come up with from a Building Design website:

there is no suggestion that building regulations were infringed or the work was sub-standard. The building regulations say external walls should resist the spread of fire, not that they should be constructed from non-combustible materials.

The panel’s aluminium facing is resistant to the surface spread of flame but this would be of little use where the intensity of the fire would quickly breach the thin aluminium facing, which has a relatively low melting point.

The article then goes on to say that there has long been a discussion over changing this regulation but nothing had been done.
http://www.bdonline.co.uk/grenfell-tower-should-this-cladding-be-allowed?/5088261.article

I am not saying Hammond is wrong - but I cant find anything to say he is right. I am sure we will hear more about cladding regulations in the days to come.

Worrying that same time of illegal cladding is on 30000 other buildings, including 87 tower blocks, across the UK tho, that's a lot of negligent officials unaware of the regulations.
http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/16/30000-buildings-in-uk-are-covered-in-the-same-cladding-as-grenfell-tower-6713539/

[Filo]

It has n't been mentioned till now because they've probably been destroying any incriminating evidence

[albie]

Oh Dear;
People are sharing this painful David Cameron quote on health and safety | indy100

What we need now is a bonfire of the red tape...or not!

There's more bad news;
Grenfell Tower fire assessments carried out at "competitive" price by firm 'willing to challenge excessive safety rules' - Mirror Online

Looking forward to the next set of explanations!

[wilts rover]

A bit more detail from ITV:

John Cowley, managing director of CEP (who manufactured the panels) said: "Reynobond PE is not banned in the UK."

"Current building regulations allow its use in both low-rise and high-rise structures," Mr Cowley added.

"The key question now is whether the overall design of the building's complete exterior was properly tested and subsequently signed off by the relevant authorities including the fire officer, building compliance officer and architect before commencement of the project," Mr Cowley added.

He has also said the Chancellor's comments were "frivolous and ill-informed - if the cladding was banned we would not be selling it."

http://www.itv.com/news/2017-06-18/cladding-used-on-grenfell-tower-is-banned-in-the-uk-says-hammond/

[Herbert Anchovy]

I'm afraid this whole tragic incident is swarming with various people who's priority is to cover their arses; from the government to the council to the building companies...meanwhile there's hundreds of poor buggers who've lost absolutely everything. Shameful   

[not on facebook]

Why have the police not taken controll of any records on data or paper that the construction company rydon will have on its files so they can't destroy ,just in case.

[roversdude]

Looks like they've taken your advice Oslo
At s guess Rydon are going under the bus

[Dagenham Rover]

 according to reports Camden Council are evacuating a hundred and odd families into emergency accommodation from one of their high rises tonight 

[not on facebook]

Looks like they've taken your advice Oslo
At s guess Rydon are going under the bus

I don't think rydon are been thrown under the bus if they have been using a banned item ,they deserve what they get

[Geoff Blakesley]

ROB W please put your head under water and don't come back up again. The world will be far better off without you and your sick ideas in it !!

[Geoff Blakesley]

Forgot to add nof as another absolute scumbag ! He's so stupid he didn't even have the gumption to learn to read and write properly when he was at school and now he thinks we even give a shit about the tripe he writes.

[not on facebook]

Forgot to add nof as another absolute scumbag !

OUCH Ouch ouch ,that hurt

[not on facebook]

Sub letting > pointed this issue out from the very start of this thread and this issue will hit the front pages after final body count and number of reported that got out of the fire as the tow numbers added together will shock everyone.

It's a criminal offence to sub let ,but it's rife across London for obvious reasons.

With government paying £5500 to effected family's and £20,000 been paid from the charity that had collected money and add in that local council will re house some family's in a very very high class up market local block of flats > will have anyone that has sub let doing their upmost to cash in.

How can the local council work out if flat A is passed onto mr smith and his family through social housing ,for said flat to be sub let by mr smith to a mr jones  mr Toby mr jug and mr invisible .

This sub letting issue has the possibility to shock council housing to its core.

[BobG]

I have no idea of the real circumstances and actions and lack of actions over the years since that place was built, but politically speaking, there is a clear advantage in making sure the enquiry is led towards looking at the performance of the inspectors, the Council, the architects, the suppliers and the builders - rather than the regulations. In amongst all that lot there will inevitably be some dirt that can be used to divert all the attention required. There will have been an ad hoc and entirely unofficial group this past week thinking through how to manage the future course of events in the right directions.  The enquiry chairman will be chosen extremely carefully too... It'll be more than interesting to read the terms of reference as well. Guess who has the power to choose the Chairman AND approve or send back the terms of reference for further consideration?!

BobG

[roversdude]

Oslo wasn't trying to defend Rydon it is deserved

[wilts rover]

Yes, that's why people were asking for an inquest rather than an inquiry Bob. An inquest could look into all the circumstances behind this fire, including the role of the state in passing building/fire regulation - an inquiry will do as you suggest above.

[wilts rover]

Oslo appears to be doing what the right wing do at times like this - divert attention from the guilty and negligent, the government, Kensington Council and their tenants organisation, by attempting to blame the victims for being there in 'sub-lets'. So what.

[not on facebook]

Iam only pointing out what is what it's not my issue how it looks or sounds.

I don't blame the victims for the fire as that is with rydon and the local council and The housing management company as I said this from the very first post.

You only have to read between the lines from what the police have reported to workout that the sub let issue is on their minds aswell.

This also will blow open the part that council housing officers play in this sub let scam ,as they must be in a sleep walking mode.

[RedJ]

The building would've set fire regardless of whether the bloke in the flat whose fridge blew up was there on a sub let or not. Absolutely f**k all to do with what happened to that tower.