The London high tower block fire.

[not on facebook]

But the sub let will have a huge effect on the final number that died and the knock on effect of re housing issue .

It has everything to do with this fire block issue .if sub letting was not such a issue in London and blind eyes turned to it my guess is that young couple who had only been in U.K. For 3 months would not have perished up on floor 21 in the fire.

Then you bring in the turning of blind eyes amongst the local council housing officers to sub letting and a certian picture comes out .

[RedJ]

But even if they hadn't been there the fire would have happened.

[Glyn_Wigley]

But even if they hadn't been there the fire would have happened.

Oh c'mon, everybody knows that it was subletting that made the fridge explode...!

[bpoolrover]

What I find interesting is that everyone was quick to blame the tories, yet it seems several other places that are labour run now have been in danger and the said people don't think that labour should be held accountable

[not on facebook]

But even if they hadn't been there the fire would have happened.

Oh c'mon, everybody knows that it was subletting that made the fridge explode...!

For the 3rd time Iam pointing out that the sub let issues will be far higher than the amount of residents that were down on the poll register to this high tower block.

In other words if the local council have X amount of persons living in this block the true number will be XXX amount due to mainly the sub let issues,and when a final dead figure is brought out questions will be asked as 2+2 will suddenly = 5/6/ or 7

To counter the so called sub letting of council flats a housing officer is supposed to visit each flat once a year to check who is living in what council housing flat and is in within the council rent records and agreements signed by both party's.

The above is obviously not happening .

[Glyn_Wigley]

But even if they hadn't been there the fire would have happened.

Oh c'mon, everybody knows that it was subletting that made the fridge explode...!

For the 3rd time Iam pointing out that the sub let issues will be far higher than the amount of residents that were down on the poll register to this high tower block.

In other words if the local council have X amount of persons living in this block the true number will be XXX amount due to mainly the sub let issues,and when a final dead figure is brought out questions will be asked as 2+2 will suddenly = 5/6/ or 7

To counter the so called sub letting of council flats a housing officer is supposed to visit each flat once a year to check who is living in what council housing flat and is in within the council rent records and agreements signed by both party's.

The above is obviously not happening .

Because councils are being squeezed by having their central government funding slashed. They've had to make cuts all over the place. The library services have been decimated, for example. I doubt whether regulatory enforcement has escaped unscathed.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

What I find interesting is that everyone was quick to blame the tories, yet it seems several other places that are labour run now have been in danger and the said people don't think that labour should be held accountable

INdeed it shows the militism of the left.

Imagine if Tory councils were evacuating residents and may was at a music festival basically campaigning.....

Perhaps he should resign also given that's what the left wanted last week from Tory leaders? Thought not.

It's quite an interesting one the whole subject which I see quite often in the company I work for.  Sadly I can't talk about it but some of the decisions made by councils stagger me.

[not on facebook]

That's b*llocks Glynn because housing officers are paid by councils to do a job.

So the money is there to pay persons to do a job ,but said job is not been done ,or its be done very very poorly .

The amount of immigrants that were seen on tv that came out of that recent burned down tower block shocked me .
The amount of ethnic housing officers across whole of London will not shock me .

Family smith Aa> they get a house via social housing in London
Family smith Ab > also get a property via social housing in London

Family's Aa and Ab  all then move into a private rented house  all together and sub let both their previous social housing at a much higher  sub let price that the local council was charging them.

All monies gained are shared out between the two family's in the one house via the two sub lets.

[Glyn_Wigley]

That's b*llocks Glynn because housing officers are paid by councils to do a job.

So the money is there to pay persons to do a job ,but said job is not been done ,or its be done very very poorly .

The amount of immigrants that were seen on tv that came out of that recent burned down tower block shocked me .
The amount of ethnic housing officers across whole of London will not shock me .

Family smith Aa> they get a house via social housing in London
Family smith Ab > also get a property via social housing in London

Family's Aa and Ab  all then move into a private rented house  all together and sub let both their previous social housing at a much higher  sub let price that the local council was charging them.

All monies gained are shared out between the two family's in the one house via the two sub lets.

The money isn't there though.

[not on facebook]

What I find interesting is that everyone was quick to blame the tories, yet it seems several other places that are labour run now have been in danger and the said people don't think that labour should be held accountable

INdeed it shows the militism of the left.

Imagine if Tory councils were evacuating residents and may was at a music festival basically campaigning.....

Perhaps he should resign also given that's what the left wanted last week from Tory leaders? Thought not.

It's quite an interesting one the whole subject which I see quite often in the company I work for.  Sadly I can't talk about it but some of the decisions made by councils stagger me.

This is quite funny  to me how what seemed to me left wing or far left wing were going mental demanding mays head etc etc ,with marches and even mixing in with local Kensington and chelsea
residents during protest.

Now that some Labour held councils across London are in the line of fire mums the word from that lot,
as they look on how to pass book of blame on elsewhere.

[RedJ]

The protests were hijacked by the SWP, by some accounts. Most credible people on the left wing think they're f**king idiots anyway.

[not on facebook]

That's b*llocks Glynn because housing officers are paid by councils to do a job.

So the money is there to pay persons to do a job ,but said job is not been done ,or its be done very very poorly .

The amount of immigrants that were seen on tv that came out of that recent burned down tower block shocked me .
The amount of ethnic housing officers across whole of London will not shock me .

Family smith Aa> they get a house via social housing in London
Family smith Ab > also get a property via social housing in London

Family's Aa and Ab  all then move into a private rented house  all together and sub let both their previous social housing at a much higher  sub let price that the local council was charging them.

All monies gained are shared out between the two family's in the one house via the two sub lets.

The money isn't there though.

It is there Glynn as they have a job and are getting paid to do such job via a monthly wage.

The fact that they are not doing their job is a different issue and why the sub let culture is rife in London.

[not on facebook]

The protests were hijacked by the SWP, by some accounts. Most credible people on the left wing think they're f**king idiots anyway.

Thanks for that input redj as it was bugging me if it was a loon group within a not as much loon group but still loony to extents .

So you have left wing

Far left wing

and the SWP who are even beyond the far left wings likes .


Suppose the exact can be said for the right wing side of society.

[roversdude]

SWP were always trying to stir things up when we were on strike at pit
Always made me laugh because there didn't seem to be one of them that was a worker

[not on facebook]

SWP were always trying to stir things up when we were on strike at pit
Always made me laugh because there didn't seem to be one of them that was a worker

SWP > would that be correct to say middle/upper class tossers with loads of spare time on their hands with parents to fall back on .

I must walk round with my eyes and ears shut as it's first time they have come o my attention thanks to redj .

[idler]

The death toll might be far lower if only the people who were supposed to be in the flat were though.
Somebody subletting might also fill the flat with cheap combustible furniture rather than someone who is actually making it a home.

[RedJ]

SWP were always trying to stir things up when we were on strike at pit
Always made me laugh because there didn't seem to be one of them that was a worker

SWP > would that be correct to say middle/upper class tossers with loads of spare time on their hands with parents to fall back on .

I must walk round with my eyes and ears shut as it's first time they have come o my attention thanks to redj .

Some of them are. Some of them are genuine working class people but the type that you'd typically see labelled "rentamob". They're like the left wing equivalent of the BNP, nobody actually takes them seriously but they're just kind of there and won't f**k off.

[Sprotyrover]

Money has always been tight when it comes to high rise, they are relics of the sixties and every single one of them is a 'Money Pit' when it comes to maintenance.

[roversdude]

Correct Sproty

[wilts rover]

What I find interesting is that everyone was quick to blame the tories, yet it seems several other places that are labour run now have been in danger and the said people don't think that labour should be held accountable

INdeed it shows the militism of the left.

Imagine if Tory councils were evacuating residents and may was at a music festival basically campaigning.....

Perhaps he should resign also given that's what the left wanted last week from Tory leaders? Thought not.

Yes because evacuation of residents from a potentially dangerous building and the short term inconveinience this causes is just the same as dozens (hundreds) of people burning to death in their own homes due to negligence, incompetance, poor regulations and enforcement - and complete chaos that ensued from what passed as the authorities for days afterwards.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

What I find interesting is that everyone was quick to blame the tories, yet it seems several other places that are labour run now have been in danger and the said people don't think that labour should be held accountable

INdeed it shows the militism of the left.

Imagine if Tory councils were evacuating residents and may was at a music festival basically campaigning.....

Perhaps he should resign also given that's what the left wanted last week from Tory leaders? Thought not.

Yes because evacuation of residents from a potentially dangerous building and the short term inconveinience this causes is just the same as dozens (hundreds) of people burning to death in their own homes due to negligence, incompetance, poor regulations and enforcement - and complete chaos that ensued from what passed as the authorities for days afterwards.

And it happened in that block purely by chance it could have been in areas controlled by any party and could have had the same result.

The point is those councils allowed the same materials in. The question is did these people know the facts to make a decision which should have been given by contractors? If they did then it appears in my eyes to be a blame. If they didn't, why weren't the questions asked?

I guess overall my point is, is it the fault of politicians? If they didn't directly make the decision then it is not in my view.

[Glyn_Wigley]

What I find interesting is that everyone was quick to blame the tories, yet it seems several other places that are labour run now have been in danger and the said people don't think that labour should be held accountable

INdeed it shows the militism of the left.

Imagine if Tory councils were evacuating residents and may was at a music festival basically campaigning.....

Perhaps he should resign also given that's what the left wanted last week from Tory leaders? Thought not.

Yes because evacuation of residents from a potentially dangerous building and the short term inconveinience this causes is just the same as dozens (hundreds) of people burning to death in their own homes due to negligence, incompetance, poor regulations and enforcement - and complete chaos that ensued from what passed as the authorities for days afterwards.

And it happened in that block purely by chance it could have been in areas controlled by any party and could have had the same result.

The point is those councils allowed the same materials in. The question is did these people know the facts to make a decision which should have been given by contractors? If they did then it appears in my eyes to be a blame. If they didn't, why weren't the questions asked?

I guess overall my point is, is it the fault of politicians? If they didn't directly make the decision then it is not in my view.

As every building across the country that has been checked so far has failed a new chack, it's looking more and more like the material has been passed by inspectors because it was deemed safe by somebody else higher up the chain.

[not on facebook]

Glynn you seem to have hit the nail on the head yet again I guess.

[wilts rover]

What I find interesting is that everyone was quick to blame the tories, yet it seems several other places that are labour run now have been in danger and the said people don't think that labour should be held accountable

INdeed it shows the militism of the left.

Imagine if Tory councils were evacuating residents and may was at a music festival basically campaigning.....

Perhaps he should resign also given that's what the left wanted last week from Tory leaders? Thought not.

Yes because evacuation of residents from a potentially dangerous building and the short term inconveinience this causes is just the same as dozens (hundreds) of people burning to death in their own homes due to negligence, incompetance, poor regulations and enforcement - and complete chaos that ensued from what passed as the authorities for days afterwards.

And it happened in that block purely by chance it could have been in areas controlled by any party and could have had the same result.

The point is those councils allowed the same materials in. The question is did these people know the facts to make a decision which should have been given by contractors? If they did then it appears in my eyes to be a blame. If they didn't, why weren't the questions asked?

I guess overall my point is, is it the fault of politicians? If they didn't directly make the decision then it is not in my view.

This is at the heart of the inquest v inquiry question. Will the investigation that is being set up into Grenfell be a full ranging one looking into government involvement in drafting (or not) of fire precaution, building control and planning - or will it be a tightly controlled one just looking into the practical causes of this fire?

It's irrelevant what colour a council is when they make the decision to build or renovate council housing - because the practical steps and safety control of that construction is managed and overseen by their staff who are non-political.

Where the difference comes in is the amount of funds that a particular council might allocate to social hosing projects. Kensington for example have a reserve of £267million (and gave the richest council tax payers a refund not so long ago) - yet went for this cladding because it was the cheapest option. In contrast Camden have reserves of about £60million.

[BobG]

And that, Wilts, is THE question of the year: "Will the investigation that is being set up into Grenfell be a full ranging one looking into government involvement in drafting (or not) of fire precaution, building control and planning - or will it be a tightly controlled one just looking into the practical causes of this fire?"

I know which way I'm betting.

Another thought: why has no one really commented on the impact that the prolonged squeeze on income, assets and cash has had on the ability of any council, anywhere, to do the job that statutorily they are supposed to do? Like I mentioned a week or two back, when was the last time you saw a Trading Standards officer for example? Where I live something over 80% of the annual child protection budget now goes into investigating allegations - which you may think is a fine and proper thing to do - until you realise that having done an investigation there is nothing, nothing, left with which to implement any solution. Buck passing and arse covering is the entire name of the game after various recent scandals (Oh my God.... Not another scandal of a council not doing something it should have? Anyone care to hazard a guess what all these scandals have in common?) I'm not making this up. I have personal knowledge. And I live in a very well heeled and affluent part of the world too. What's it like in Attercliffe or Brightside or somewhere?

BobG

[Glyn_Wigley]

And that, Wilts, is THE question of the year: "Will the investigation that is being set up into Grenfell be a full ranging one looking into government involvement in drafting (or not) of fire precaution, building control and planning - or will it be a tightly controlled one just looking into the practical causes of this fire?"

I know which way I'm betting.

Another thought: why has no one really commented on the impact that the prolonged squeeze on income, assets and cash has had on the ability of any council, anywhere, to do the job that statutorily they are supposed to do? Like I mentioned a week or two back, when was the last time you saw a Trading Standards officer for example? Where I live something over 80% of the annual child protection budget now goes into investigating allegations - which you may think is a fine and proper thing to do - until you realise that having done an investigation there is nothing, nothing left with which to implement any solution. Buck passing and arse covering is the entire name of the game now. I'm not making this up either. I have personal knowledge. And I live in a very well heeled and affluent part of the world too. So what's it like in Attercliffe or Brightside or somewhere?

BobG

Apparently NOF thinks they can do just as good a job with less money, people and resources...

[Glyn_Wigley]

An interesting little snippet from this week's Private Eye's Number Crunching:

6 hours: Length of a fire safety inspection prior to the Conservatives' Cutting Red Tape Initiative, launched in 2015 to 'get rid of unnecessary bureaucracy'.

45 minutes: Length of fire safety inspections after it for 'businesses with good safety records...allowing managers to quickly get back to their day job'.

[Colemans Left Hook]

An interesting little snippet from this week's Private Eye's Number Crunching:

6 hours: Length of a fire safety inspection prior to the Conservatives' Cutting Red Tape Initiative, launched in 2015 to 'get rid of unnecessary bureaucracy'.

45 minutes: Length of fire safety inspections after it for 'businesses with good safety records...allowing managers to quickly get back to their day job'.

just luv it when people QUOTE about things they know nothing about  yes we all know about periodic dry risers tests etc
if the fridge making industry chose  IN 2010 to bury their heads in 2010  landlords NEEDED TO BORROW MY CRYSTAL BALL

has anyone thought of googling exploding fridges  - I LEARNED A LOT PDQ

http://cr4.globalspec.com/blogentry/13314/The-Ignored-Disaster-Exploding-Refrigerators


The Ignored Disaster: Exploding Refrigerators
Posted July 17, 2010 8:11 AM 




The Ignored Disaster: Exploding Refrigerators
Posted July 17, 2010 8:11 AM

The planet seems to be consumed by disasters these days, natural and man-made. From massive oil spills in the Gulf of Mexico to earthquakes to erupting volcanoes. Yet there's another potential disaster looming in either the frozen food section of your local mega-mart, or even the residential model refrigerator you keep inside your office kitchen (we have a basic GE model at my dad's commercial construction company).

The looming disaster? Exploding fridges.

How exactly do refrigerators explode? Gasses that become trapped and not allowed to properly vent can easily become ignited by a single spark. Or leaking isobutene can also cause both sudden explosion and fire.

Okay, I know what you're thinking. The probability of your home/workplace refrigerator exploding or the supermarket frozen food section going nuclear is about as likely as your winning the Mega Millions lottery. Yet some industry experts, like Neil Everitt of ACR News, view exploding refrigerators as a potential life threatening disaster in the making.

"The most worrying thing about… exploding fridge cases," he writes in his monthly column, "is what I see as a failure by the industry to take these events seriously. The chaos caused by an exploding fridge, its potential to cause injury and the ramifications for this industry, have not been fully recognized."

Everitt also makes a point of differentiating between actual explosions and fires. While a fire is usually preceded by smoke, or an alarm, or both, explosions happen spontaneously and without warning. They can cause serious injury or death, as was the case with a rash of explosions that occurred recently in England.

Do you see exploding refrigerators as a real threat? And if so, what should the industry do to make them safer?The Ignored Disaster: Exploding Refrigerators
Posted July 17, 2010 8:11 AM

The planet seems to be consumed by disasters these days, natural and man-made. From massive oil spills in the Gulf of Mexico to earthquakes to erupting volcanoes. Yet there's another potential disaster looming in either the frozen food section of your local mega-mart, or even the residential model refrigerator you keep inside your office kitchen (we have a basic GE model at my dad's commercial construction company).

The looming disaster? Exploding fridges.

How exactly do refrigerators explode? Gasses that become trapped and not allowed to properly vent can easily become ignited by a single spark. Or leaking isobutene can also cause both sudden explosion and fire.

Okay, I know what you're thinking. The probability of your home/workplace refrigerator exploding or the supermarket frozen food section going nuclear is about as likely as your winning the Mega Millions lottery. Yet some industry experts, like Neil Everitt of ACR News, view exploding refrigerators as a potential life threatening disaster in the making.

"The most worrying thing about… exploding fridge cases," he writes in his monthly column, "is what I see as a failure by the industry to take these events seriously. The chaos caused by an exploding fridge, its potential to cause injury and the ramifications for this industry, have not been fully recognized."

Everitt also makes a point of differentiating between actual explosions and fires. While a fire is usually preceded by smoke, or an alarm, or both, explosions happen spontaneously and without warning. They can cause serious injury or death, as was the case with a rash of explosions that occurred recently in England.

Do you see exploding refrigerators as a real threat? And if so, what should the industry do to make them safer?


-------------------
IN MY WORLD THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A FIRE AND AN EXPLOSION  -- think we need a quantum shift in blame here

could say we have a new "hotpoint" for "frigid blame"

[selby]

When the fire inspections were taken off the fire brigade,it was to cut costs and manpower,it also put this area into the brown envelope brigade.

[Glyn_Wigley]

What have exploding fridges got to do with fire safety inspections? They inspect the building's capability to withstand fire, not personal electrical equipment's propensity to burst into flames..!