HOLD FAST > queen Elizabeth hits open seas.

[not on facebook]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/26/hms-queen-elizabeth-set-leave-dockyard-first-time-sea-trials/

The new addition to our navy is a big one is she not.

Two massive towers > wembley of the sea .

She will not be fully operational for a couple of years ,but at this stage she looks a beauty .

I don't have any sea legs what so ever so I need help with this ,is the queen Elizabeth that big that she will be restricted to which ports she can dock out through out the world?

Would be great if she steamed down the fjord and landed and parked up alongside the harbor/dock in oslo .

Saw our last aircraft carrie HMS illustrilious in oslo and that was very impressive to say the least .

Watching it heading up through the last part of the fjord as it's helicopter as active in helping her dock was mind blowing .

[Filo]

Where it will be able to dock will depend on it's draft

[not on facebook]

What's it's draft please filo

[StocktonRover]

Draft is the distance between the waterline and the lowest point of the ship. It's the minimum depth of water required to stop it fouling the bottom.
Air draft is the height from the waterline to the highest point - the clearance required to get under a bridge.

[wilts rover]

A mate of mine worked on the guidance systems for it. Hence it being 3 years late!

[not on facebook]

Draft is the distance between the waterline and the lowest point of the ship. It's the minimum depth of water required to stop it fouling the bottom.
Air draft is the height from the waterline to the highest point - the clearance required to get under a bridge.

When HMS illustrious was been tugged down oslo fjord ,I was told that the helicopter above was checking the depth and clearance of fjord as HMS came down .

So I understand that bit ,but HMS illustrious came into dick sideways bacaically as it was no room to manouver i guess. With Queen Elizabeth been much much longer that's what I was thinking about if you get my just.

[BobG]

It is a big bugger Oslo - but it's still a massive amount smaller than the Yanks carriers!

The problem with the thing, and it's mate, are the facts that:

1) There are not going to be any aeroplanes for it for quite some while yet. The Yanks are going to be the first to fly off the damn thing.
2) we don't have enough marines to man the thing with themarines it's supposed to have
3) we don't have anything like enough escort ships for the thing to be allowed to go anywhere in a war where it might do some good. That's true. Therefore, it, and its mate, are going to end up being another Task Force 37. We, in effect, have built 2 carriers for the US navy.

Lots of Admirals and 4 ring types with nice shore jobs though. I've seen 'em. There's hundreds of the buggers in Bristol.

BobG

[glosterred]

Bob you've been listening to the naysayers, the RAF And the Navy have aircraft, they are currently based in America working up to operational readiness. Also, the number of aircraft are being added to every 3-4 weeks with another new aircraft. They arrive in the U.K. next year.

The marines do not man the ship, the navy sailors do and there are ample to do this, but there is a short fall in submariners.

There are 8 destroyers and soon to be built 19 OPV, type 26(?) and 31 frigates, ample to carry out escort duties

[andy didcott]

There are not ample sailors to man this boat, civilian caterers were sent onboard today to fill the gaps.
And 1,000 crew to man it,?need twice that much.

[BobG]

I know they're working up Gloster. I worked for a decent spell in the place where the thing was planned, designed, laid out and drawn up. I am aware of what the plans are and what is happening today. The fact remains the ship will not have its complement of planes for some time after working up. And there aren't even plans for ships to escort the damn thing! What we've got instead is six (6 not 8) Type 45 destoyers each having to have its hull cut open to replace engines that were never supposed to need replacing. Even the Daily Mail held its nose Gloster:

"Britain's new £6billion fleet of Type 45 destroyers spend more than TWICE as much time berthed in UK ports than 'out and doing their job' "

Between April 2015 and 2016 four of these state-of-the-art ships were stationary for more than 300 days each.

And, according to the Mail anyway,  HMS Dauntless has now being relegated to a £1bn 'training ship'. Not bad going if it's true. It wasn't commissioned until the summer of 2010.

We are going to have to wait a long, long time before we can escort the carriers for ourselves.... Task Force 37 rides again. The Yanks must really love us.

Oh. we are getting some lovely new fleet replenishment tankers courtesy of South Korea - when we've finished arguing in the law courts. It's the MARS programme if you're interested.

Cheers

BobG

PS we could ask the Chinese for a few destroyers though. They nicked the design of the Type 45 and have built, if memory serves, over 40 of the things now. And with engines that actually work! Amazing eh?

[Filo]

Prelimary sea trials would not require a full crew compliment. I did a few Sea Trials for vessels built for the MoD, every sea trial started with a skeleton crew

[BobG]

Surely builders trials have relatively few RN crew?

BobG

[not on facebook]

Oh dear me when I read the write up about the queen Elizabeth from the telegraph I was quite happy and proud

What with the success of the FLA march throu the somke on Saturday to our navy's new addition the all things are great  British spirit was slowly building back up, I was humming rule Britannia

Now after reading rest of this thread and all the background issues about the navy's new addition has hit me like a damp squid effect.

[George Carter]

I loved the bit in the itv news report tonight where it was said we had the russians worried by this ship lol. Like the russians are going to be scared when they have the capability to nuke us off the face of the earth if they wanted to.

[BobG]

None of this is hard to find out y'know Oslo. Do you read a newspaper? Or a decent online news column somewhere? It's a really good place to start. And reading stuff like that not only gives you more knowledge, but it will also show you how you can see through some of the bluster and bullshit and blinkered nationalism too. Some people find facts very, very inconvenient when they interfere with their personal holy cows The Royal Navy is a common holy cow in this country - for good reason. But that should not hide the fact that the Royal Navy today is not fit for the role these two new carriers allegedly give it. We made that mistake once before and, tactically at least, got trounced as a result at Jutland.

Cheers

BobG

[BobG]

By the by, I've just read, in the UK Defence Journal:

"HMS Dauntless temporarily reduced to harbour training ship"

"It's no secret that HMS Dauntless has endured the most issues relating to the widely reported propulsion issues currently found in the Type 45 Destroyers. While a remedy is being worked on and the vessel will eventually return to operations, this will not be for a few years yet.

A parliamentary written question has confirmed what many have feared, that the vessel will not be leaving Portsmouth for some time."

Scratch another escort vessel....

BobG

[not on facebook]

I still have the problem of reading whatever I read in the papers as face value ,unless I have very deep back ground knowlodgde on the subject.

I don't read any one particular paper as I flick throu one different paper each day via online editions.

Today was the telegraph ,Tuesday will be London evening standard.

I will never read the sun ,but if they brought page 3 tits back I will have a sneaky gander.

I do the same with noggy papers ,but there is a lot smaller choice out here .

[not on facebook]

By the by, I've just read, in the UK Defence Journal:

"HMS Dauntless temporarily reduced to harbour training ship"

"It's no secret that HMS Dauntless has endured the most issues relating to the widely reported propulsion issues currently found in the Type 45 Destroyers. While a remedy is being worked on and the vessel will eventually return to operations, this will not be for a few years yet.

A parliamentary written question has confirmed what many have feared, that the vessel will not be leaving Portsmouth for some time."

Scratch another escort vessel....

BobG

I take it that other navy ships\boats were scrapped to make way for above HMS .

Which leads to question why don't they do the scraping once said new addition is fully sea worthy

[glosterred]

For those interested