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Quote from: RedJ on March 14, 2018, 09:16:42 amQuote from: Bentley Bullet on March 14, 2018, 01:21:44 amDo you know what we need Billy? We need someone with some B0llocks. Someone like Winnie. Not Winnie the Pooh (Corbyn), Winnie the Churchill.A man who was in favour of a United States of Europe? (which I'm fairly sure has actually been pointed out and ignored further back in the thread).I was thinking more of the man who had some boll0cks and who would never surrender to unfair demands, even in a United States of Europe.
Quote from: Bentley Bullet on March 14, 2018, 01:21:44 amDo you know what we need Billy? We need someone with some B0llocks. Someone like Winnie. Not Winnie the Pooh (Corbyn), Winnie the Churchill.A man who was in favour of a United States of Europe? (which I'm fairly sure has actually been pointed out and ignored further back in the thread).
Do you know what we need Billy? We need someone with some B0llocks. Someone like Winnie. Not Winnie the Pooh (Corbyn), Winnie the Churchill.
Metalmicky.It's comments like that why we're in the mess we're in*. The fact you display an unfaltering faith that you have the ability to predict the future of a Corbyn government but a complete absence of faith in the future predictions of experts. It displays a failure of people in my profession (academia) to engage, and displays a complete lack of understanding on your part on what 'experts' are. They aren't a sea of individuals making stabs in the dark about the future (in fact, when they do they get called out heavily). It works on things like consensus, collaborative work, rigour, peer-review, extremely stringent ethical procedures, criticism, an enduring openness, and an often unrewarding motivation to analyse things that others don't.IF you want to disregard and disrespect those things in society then let me tell you we will be a lot poorer, rather than your stab in the dark about Corbyn. But as someone who also worked briefly in the civil service for one of the UK governments, let me tell you 99% of all policies are thankfully taken on evidence and reason and following the guidance of experts.Your last sentence about becoming 'richer as nation', it's hard for me to comprehend how a crazy vote that's split the nation bang down the middle and created enduring rifts is, or will make us, any richer.* And by mess I partly mean brexit but also the austerity killing public services and leaving large sections of this country behind the SE
Quote from: Metalmicky on March 14, 2018, 08:00:31 amThe last thing I want is to see JC in No 10..... now that would be a calamity for the country. Nobody really knows how Britain will fair post Brexit and if you rolled out 100 'experts' you would inevitably find they all had differing opinions - and therefore many would be wrong. Brexit may mean that we will all be poorer in monetary terms, but perhaps we will become richer as a nation...100 economists? Pah! How about 639?That’s the number that we’re polled a month before the vote. Here’s what they said. https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/economists-views-brexit88% of them said that a Leave vote would lead to a hit in the economy over the subsequent 5 years. We’re nearly 2 years into that 5 years and it’s panning out just like they said. I am genuinely astonished where this near-hatred for expert opinion comes from. They HAVE called it right and there AREN’T major difference of opinion amongst them. Why are people so determined to ignore this?
The last thing I want is to see JC in No 10..... now that would be a calamity for the country. Nobody really knows how Britain will fair post Brexit and if you rolled out 100 'experts' you would inevitably find they all had differing opinions - and therefore many would be wrong. Brexit may mean that we will all be poorer in monetary terms, but perhaps we will become richer as a nation...
Quote from: Bentley Bullet on March 14, 2018, 09:44:49 amQuote from: RedJ on March 14, 2018, 09:16:42 amQuote from: Bentley Bullet on March 14, 2018, 01:21:44 amDo you know what we need Billy? We need someone with some B0llocks. Someone like Winnie. Not Winnie the Pooh (Corbyn), Winnie the Churchill.A man who was in favour of a United States of Europe? (which I'm fairly sure has actually been pointed out and ignored further back in the thread).I was thinking more of the man who had some boll0cks and who would never surrender to unfair demands, even in a United States of Europe.Sorry Bentley but just for clarity which unfair demands are you referring to?
BBTrouble is, Churchill was f**king useless when it came to issues relating to the economy, business and finance. His term at the Treasury was one of the most catastrophic of the 20th century. So I’m not sure I’d put a right lot of faith in him to know his arse from his elbow in negotiations about our future economic relations with Europe.
Wilts, I don't know whether or not there have been any. I haven't been present in the talks! I reckon there's a possibility that there could be unfair demands though, such as silly settlement figures, if we had a weak negotiator. I said Winnie (The Churchill) wouldn't put up with any of that, and his sheer presence would have deterred any attempts to do so.
I reckon Churchill wouldn't have stood for any demands he deemed unfair even if he had taken us into a United States of Europe, and he would conduct Brexit talks in the same way.As far as BBC bias, do you watch Question Time?
MM, I could write a long response addressing point by point but won't in the interest of it not degenerating. It's very much the opposite mate, any 'expert' in their field who tightly follows the principles I listed in my first post will not be making predictions about the future. They very much deal with the past because that's where the evidence comes from. I'm getting the impression that what you imagine is there is 100 experts in a room and a certain percentage will be saying different things to the rest and therefore you should by cynical of the whole lot? But that's really not how it works either, it works on consensus; paradigms that they all broadly agree on barring the fine points.Part of the problem is this figure of the 'expert' created by the media is filled by the kind of the ideologically driven 'research' that people like David Keighley (few pages earlier) produce. You're never gunna hear a reasoned expert discussing the pros and cons because they don't want it.on the civil service - as a young man I was probably very much anti-bureaucracy but as I get older I increasingly find myself thinking thank f**k they are there.
Quote from: Bentley Bullet on March 14, 2018, 10:07:53 amI reckon Churchill wouldn't have stood for any demands he deemed unfair even if he had taken us into a United States of Europe, and he would conduct Brexit talks in the same way.As far as BBC bias, do you watch Question Time? Yes I do religiously and pull my hair out at the consistent audience and panel bias for Leave . Even in a heavily Remain constituency area we seem to have the same old rabid Brexiters shouting down those Remainers even prepared to put their head up over the parapet.It makes me seethe with anger to see " big hitters " from the Leave side pitted against " weak at best" Remainers on his selected panel. Week after week we get this , last week was a perfect example where in a heavy Remain constituency of Westminster - they barely discussed Brexit . I take it you look at the carefully crafted but hugely biased vids on the Express/ Mail online to cement this impression in your mind further. They are wholly unrepresentative of the debate in general and infuriating . Finally what annoys me most is that you see it as a pro- Remain programme is the propaganda online in the Mail/ Express etc that effective ?
Quote from: hoolahoop on March 15, 2018, 07:34:20 amQuote from: Bentley Bullet on March 14, 2018, 10:07:53 amI reckon Churchill wouldn't have stood for any demands he deemed unfair even if he had taken us into a United States of Europe, and he would conduct Brexit talks in the same way.As far as BBC bias, do you watch Question Time? Yes I do religiously and pull my hair out at the consistent audience and panel bias for Leave . Even in a heavily Remain constituency area we seem to have the same old rabid Brexiters shouting down those Remainers even prepared to put their head up over the parapet.It makes me seethe with anger to see " big hitters " from the Leave side pitted against " weak at best" Remainers on his selected panel. Week after week we get this , last week was a perfect example where in a heavy Remain constituency of Westminster - they barely discussed Brexit . I take it you look at the carefully crafted but hugely biased vids on the Express/ Mail online to cement this impression in your mind further. They are wholly unrepresentative of the debate in general and infuriating . Finally what annoys me most is that you see it as a pro- Remain programme is the propaganda online in the Mail/ Express etc that effective ? Yet again, Hoola, you take it wrong.
Hoola, I wasn't being rude when I said you'd taken it wrong regarding your suggestion that I get my BBC Brexit bias info from the Mail/Express. I was merely correcting you because, although those tabloids do claim BBC pro-EU bias, I couldn't use their examples in this forum because they would simply be disregarded as lies.It's a pity really that my personal opinion can't be accepted as just that, but it seems that until I can show links as evidence of several other like-minded people who share my observations, my opinion is disrespected, sometimes to the point of ridicule. Rude even!In an attempt at evidence that will be accepted as proof that my personal opinion is shared, here's a link. I won't hold my breath.http://bbccomplaints.com/