We are a team..

[Donnyjim]

Not having a go
Just giving my opinion,
Did you go?

Yeah, we were shit, did you pal?

[the vicar]

Pure and simple we was shit tonight for me not one player played well Marquis could of and should of got 2 bit he missed 2 sitters, beestin when he came on just stood with his hands on his hips most of the time

[German Rover]

Getting beat isn't the worst thing, the lack of application is. I can take the team getting beat so long as they've had a right good go at it, put their bodies on their line and let the opposition know they've been in a game. Can anyone honestly say we've done that this season?

[dickos1]

Another thing that's not been mentioned, both their first two goals took big deflections.

No getting away from it though we were bad tonight,

Lawlor 4
Toffilo 5
Butler 7
Wright 5
Baudry 3
Blair 4
Houghton 5
Copps 5
Rowe 4
Kongolo 6
Marquis 5

[Not Now Kato]

I've no problem with losing it's the manner we lost, we set up with everyone behind the ball and after 10 mins it was clear that it was not going to work, we looked better with 2 up front let's hope he learns from it

The words Ferguson and learn appear to be mutually exclusive.  He doesn't seem to be able to.

[dickos1]

It should've been 1-1 at half time though even though we were bad, they didn't create many chances and scored from two deflected shots, and marquis missed a chance my 4 year old would've scored.

[mrfrostsdad]

Still convinced we won't go down Jim. Having said that I said that 2 seasons ago! 😀😀
There is some truth in your post though: this set of players is not good enough for this division (to do well in this division I mean) and I'm not a hugs DF fan. But to be fair, who else would we get? Any manager coming in would say 'we need to invest in new players because this lot is struggling. How much money do I have?'

Who would we get ?
Who knows, but it could be someone who got the team doing well.
There are plenty of good football managers out there and one could just be the right fit.

The alternative presumably is to plod along towards L2 and do nothing about it.

I am not sure that is right that we will go down. I do not think we are going down. I am pretty certain we will be safe.

It was a tough game tonight and while it matched the biggest beating handed out by Wigan at home this season, it is clearly a tough place to go for anyone.

What is an open question is whether we are actually progressing under the current manager. At League One level there remains some remarkable consistency under the current manager:

2015/16 season - 35 games, 35 points - 1.00 points per game
2017/18 season - 19 games, 20 points - 1.05 points per game

It really is quite something. A point a game.

Different seasons, different players, different opposition. A point a game.

Last couple of weeks it hasn't been averaging a point a game.
It changes every week, bit silly to keep posting it every time it equates.
After the bury game it was nothing like

Hound, as you probably know, I'd have sacked Ferguson after the Scunny away game the season we got relegated!

Dickos: I'm pretty sure we've got 8 points from our last 7 games (if I'm wrong I'm sure someone will tell me) that's pretty near a point a game if I'm right

[anne honemous]

I'm convinced that we won't go be relegated and I won't take tonight's result out of context - it was our most difficult game of the season on paper and so it proved.

It'd be nice to have got something, but if we had then it would have been a bonus. I certainly didn't expect anything tonight so a defeat doesn't feel anywhere near as bad as it would have done against one of the teams in and around us in the league table.

On the performance, frustratingly, yet again absolutely nothing new was learned tonight.

We're at Groundhog Day with the team we have. We know our weaknesses and they've been discussed numerous times already. My only expectation is that DF has also recognised our weak areas and my only demand is that he addresses the problem with new signings during the January transfer window.

If we meander towards safety and nothing positively changes in either results or performances by May, then the board need to make a decision in the summer - i.e. either they throw money at signing good, long-term replacements in the summer, or they relieve DF of his duties (as if they're not prepared to let him sign the players he needs to take us forward, it shows they have no faith in him).

Finally, I hope people stick by DF and give him at least until after the transfer window where he has the opportunity to address weaknesses, before calling for his head.

[Akinfenwa]

I never expected anything from Wigan, but the fact that we're even discussing the possibility of relegation, and it not being unrealistic, is quite concerning in my view.

If we are in a similar position in March as we are in now, and I've not seen anything that suggests we won't be, then I'll be doubly worried as (probably irrationally) there's no way I'm trusting Donny chuffing Rovers of all teams not to bottle it again!

[keith79]

I like when people say . "Who would be get" ffs

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

We have weaknesses and we will lose games at times that's the crux of it.

I remember reading Ferguson's thoughts on this season and he said then we'll do well in some and get a hiding in some.  He wasn't wrong.  We are still adjusting the key point is to learn and build upon last night's performance going in to a big home game this weekend where we need a result.

I haven't liked the formation we've used it lacks pace next to Marquis which means he doesn't get the space Williams or May create.  Perhaps a rethink for Ferguson there.

What I'm looking for is improvement towards March as 'Akinfenwa' says ready to make strong additions for next year.  If we're 1/2 points above the bottom at that point then we should worry.

[drfchound]

I am not sure that is right that we will go down. I do not think we are going down. I am pretty certain we will be safe.

It was a tough game tonight and while it matched the biggest beating handed out by Wigan at home this season, it is clearly a tough place to go for anyone.

What is an open question is whether we are actually progressing under the current manager. At League One level there remains some remarkable consistency under the current manager:

2015/16 season - 35 games, 35 points - 1.00 points per game
2017/18 season - 19 games, 20 points - 1.05 points per game

It really is quite something. A point a game.

Different seasons, different players, different opposition. A point a game.

Last couple of weeks it hasn't been averaging a point a game.
It changes every week, bit silly to keep posting it every time it equates.
After the bury game it was nothing like

Oh yeah, after the Bury game it was at 1.125 ppg, which isn't a lot different is it?

Irrespective of how it changes game to game, the thing is that over time the average is around 1 ppg.
That over the season is going to make it very close with regards to whether we do go down again, as i am sure you will agree with.
It doesn't matter how it is padded out, DF's record with us in L1 isn't good and the signs this season are that we are going to be hanging on to our seats come April and May.

[dickos1]

That ppg would give you an extra 6 points over a season than 1ppg. So it is a big difference.
If we win Saturday it's back to 1.15.
It's a daft thing to keep going on about it until he season ends, because it changes every week

[Copps is Magic]

Sadly, I don't think we have weaknessess, I think we have  (apparently) insurmountable deficiencies including a consistent inability to defend, a constant inability to adapt during games, formations which don't produce the best from the players we have, and pretty consistent individual errors and absences of confidence among the players at both ends of the pitch.

[dickos1]

An inability to defend is a bit odd when before yesterday we'd conceded only one goal in the previous 3 games

[Copps is Magic]

Even odder would be defending Ferguson's defensive record as a manager.

[dickos1]

Who's doing that?
Your talking about us this season

[Copps is Magic]

If 'insurmountable deficiencies' does not indicate I'm taking a holistic, long-term view, and...

You not believing you're defending his defensive record by defending his defensive record..

Then it's going to be pretty difficult to have a grown up discussion about this.

[dickos1]

Copps you stated we have insamountable deficiencies including a consistent inability to defend.
That statement has nothing to do with Fergusons past, it's purely speaking about us this season

[wing commander]

     We are all managers and all see things completely different.I can remember being a lone voice when Marquis contract was being renewed,i didn't think he was worth it and countered everybody's argument that we should give him what he wants, with the fact he had failed everywhere else and had 1 good year in a good team in a poor league.
    I still think that probably cost us 1 extra player with what we are paying for someone who wouldn't get into any other league 1 team at the minute...

    However I also said at the time that giving Cedric a new contract was fantastic business at the time and roll on 18 months we are still paying him a large chunk every week to play elsewhere..So I was a mile out on that opinion...

   Personally I don't think players like Butler,Toffolo,Blair are good enough for this league,Rowe is knowhere near the level he's capable off and Coppingers race has been run...But I doubt many will agree with me on those...

     The reality is we've either got a manager who cant get the best out of good players or players that are simply not as good as people think they are..!! My money's on the second..

[dickos1]

I agree with majority of that but butler has been our best player this season and I think our defence has been our biggest positive of the season

[wing commander]

   Like I said all about opinions Dickos.I like Butler a lot,a model professional who puts more in than he takes out and gives everything he has.I just don't think his ability and mobility level is quite good enough for league 1 that's all.

[Alan Southstand]

With you on most of that, WC. I can't agree on Marquis, however, as I think he needs a partner who is more than capable alongside him (his best games last season were when he partnered a better and fitter Williams).

I also think the players are, presently, not quite good enough for the level we're at. Most of the young lads could well improve sufficiently to see us staying at this level, but here's the rub - most of our midfield are loanees and the 4 that are ours have questionable ability for this level. Copps coming to the end of his career, Rowe just isn't doing anything consistently, Blair not quite good enough and McCullough is always injured! Doesn't fit well into any 5 year plan, if you ask me.

[drfchound]

So we are a couple of years into the feted five year plan and in reality are no further forward than when it began.

[dickos1]

But after a year would you not have thought they would have re-assessed this plan?

[RedJ]

I like when people say . "Who would be get" ffs

Agreed. Probably the most ridiculous argument you could possibly make against not making a change.

[FNB]

I went last night and it was the same problems which have been around for nearly a year now. 

Slow, boring, no width, predictable, negative, unintelligent and often gutless football.  We were also given offside from a freekick in a good area, given offside from a short corner (FFS) and I lost count of the times we hoofed it up field for it simply to give it to the opposition. 

We lacked courage - Kongolo in their half in the second half with a two on two attack down the right side - instead of having a go (we were already two nil down) he turned back and the ball went back to our keeper via a defender.  Lawlor then boots it upfield (again) and we lose possession.  Shite football.

I don't like losing but it would help if we were at least more positive, attack minded and entertaining.  Not gung ho stupid, just not Ferguson.       

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Cant disagree with that. Without being there, you can see those weaknesses from the brief highlights and from what we've seen before. Yes, accepting we were playing Wigan but we've seen the same weaknesses against lesser teams.

The sum of the parts don't add up, whilst individually the players should be able to cope with this league, collectively, we're not performing well enough as a team.

I was reasonably optimistic about this season, and yes there's been some mitigating injuries, we're on the cusp of falling further back rather than gaining ground. Collectively, the team isn't working hard enough for long enough during games.   

[roversam]

Going no where, apart from down. I'm afraid the current manager and team are shite and we are heading back to L2, pure and simple. The only way to change this is with some movement in the transfer window and a change of management. Neither will happen - league 2 here we come. 

you're shit at being a wum Jim. You have to be unpredictable at times.

[Lesonthewest]

I agree with majority of that but butler has been our best player this season and I think our defence has been our biggest positive of the season

I agree, even with the loss of Danny Andrew we have coped fairly well, losing the latter has been a massive loss for me though, not just what he brings to the team, but with the way we play with him in the side, best player we had up to his injury. Just makes you wonder where we might be now with him & Kiwomya playing.