Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 28, 2024, 03:29:51 pm

Login with username, password and session length

Links


FSA logo

Author Topic: How Farage did it, no grass roots total control  (Read 3542 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Bentley Bullet

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 19302
Re: How Farage did it, no grass roots total control
« Reply #30 on May 24, 2019, 08:29:01 pm by Bentley Bullet »
BST, do you see the responsibility you have as one of the more educated members of this forum, in respect of duty in leadership? A duty that doesn't encourage the lesser educated of your supporters to follow your unsavoury points and taking them to an even lower level of acceptance?



(want to hide these ads? Join the VSC today!)

drfcdrfc

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 205
Re: How Farage did it, no grass roots total control
« Reply #31 on May 24, 2019, 10:34:39 pm by drfcdrfc »
Are the elderly brexiteers aware that Werthers original are German?

BillyStubbsTears

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 36596
Re: How Farage did it, no grass roots total control
« Reply #32 on May 24, 2019, 11:09:38 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Been wondering this evening why I find this debate so depressing.

Then it hit me.

There's some clever folk in here on both sides of the argument. But there's a difference in the way they argue.
Yes, folk on both sides, me included, get a bit narky sometimes. But there's a reasonably consistent theme on the Remain side: presentation of facts; presentation of logical conclusions from facts; refutation of assertions that don't measure up to the facts.

On the Leave side, there are also regular themes: Whataboutery (Well don't criticise US because YOU did...); refusing to engage in exchange of ideas, preferring to keep repeating opinions rather than take on the central ideas put forward by the other side; eagerness to point out unpleasantness on the other side but apparent unawareness of the same things from themselves.

I'd been getting quite depressed, thinking this is what Brexit had done to us. Then I stumbled on this

https://theinterfaceofdataandlife.wordpress.com/2016/01/05/the-pyramid-of-disagreement-a-critical-tool-for-analyzing-arguments/

Looks like it's a wider human thing. Folk are just at different stages of development when it comes to discussing and arguing.

wilts rover

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 10145
Re: How Farage did it, no grass roots total control
« Reply #33 on May 25, 2019, 09:09:34 am by wilts rover »
Unfortunately Billy, and this is where I have a great deal of sympathy for the leavers, there are only two facts that matter:

a majority of people voted to leave
Parliament is unable to agree on the terms of leaving

yes you can argue about the size of the majority, the economic consequences, freedom of movement, what the leave side promised but can never deliver - all these are reasons for not holding the referendum in the first place or if it it was going to be held making it a super majority (say 55-45).

Because we are now where we are and that is what Farage has tapped into. He doesn't have any answers to the questions, just slogans to con people, but I fear it will get worse before it gets better.

SydneyRover

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 13576
Re: How Farage did it, no grass roots total control
« Reply #34 on May 25, 2019, 12:48:18 pm by SydneyRover »
Unfortunately Billy, and this is where I have a great deal of sympathy for the leavers, there are only two facts that matter:

a majority of people voted to leave
Parliament is unable to agree on the terms of leaving

yes you can argue about the size of the majority, the economic consequences, freedom of movement, what the leave side promised but can never deliver - all these are reasons for not holding the referendum in the first place or if it it was going to be held making it a super majority (say 55-45).

Because we are now where we are and that is what Farage has tapped into. He doesn't have any answers to the questions, just slogans to con people, but I fear it will get worse before it gets better.

And yet Wilts when you think there's little to smile about a rainbow appears .................

''EU fraud watchdog considering Nigel Farage investigation''

''The European Union’s anti-fraud watchdog is considering whether Nigel Farage should be investigated for any illegal activity over lavish payment from Arron Banks, the Guardian has learned''

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/25/eu-watchdog-considering-nigel-farage-investigation-arron-banks






scawsby steve

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 7704
Re: How Farage did it, no grass roots total control
« Reply #35 on May 25, 2019, 02:41:59 pm by scawsby steve »
Unfortunately Billy, and this is where I have a great deal of sympathy for the leavers, there are only two facts that matter:

a majority of people voted to leave
Parliament is unable to agree on the terms of leaving

yes you can argue about the size of the majority, the economic consequences, freedom of movement, what the leave side promised but can never deliver - all these are reasons for not holding the referendum in the first place or if it it was going to be held making it a super majority (say 55-45).

Because we are now where we are and that is what Farage has tapped into. He doesn't have any answers to the questions, just slogans to con people, but I fear it will get worse before it gets better.

You've hit the nail right on the head there Wilts. The referendum should never have been held in the first place. Nobody was interested and David Cameron must have known that the majority of Parliament wouldn't vote for any form of Brexit; but he went ahead with it anyway, because he was certain that Remain would win, and finally see off the Right.

All it means is that we're all arguing and taking the p*ss out of each other, and the country's bitterly divided, with seemingly no way out of it.

BillyStubbsTears

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 36596
Re: How Farage did it, no grass roots total control
« Reply #36 on May 25, 2019, 03:09:28 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
It's absolutely correct that the referendum should never have happened, and without doubt shouldn't have happened as a binary choice on a non-binary question. That is why we are in such a mess now.

That's Cameron's legacy. He's torn open wounds that were barely scratched before 2016. And he did it for nothing other than perceived party polical advantage.

It's astonishing to think that we could have had a PM with such catastrophically bad judgement as that, and that he'll turn out to be only the third worst PM of the 2010s. Or that Gordon Brown will end up judged by history as hands down the most able PM of the 2010s.

 

TinyPortal © 2005-2012